Cost comparison-Extract vs. All-grain vs. Macrobrew

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tomwirsing

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As someone just coming into brewing, I'm trying to get a handle on costs (and justify things to SWMBO).

What are some estimates of what it costs to generate a 5 gallon batch of beer? I'm only interested in consumables such as propane, grains or extract, hops, finings, and yeast. Let's ignore the limitless cost potential of equipment and call water negligible.

My current fridge stocking choice is to support my local High Life to the tune of about $15 for a 30 pack. This works out to about $26.67 for 5 gallons. I definitely enjoy a wide variety of different and interesting beers. I don't see enough difference between High Life and something like Budweiser to justify the difference in price. The smaller price difference between High Life and the less expensive beers does seem worth it to me. The $8 (or more) six packs for the things I'd really like to be drinking seems excessive. I don't expect to best the High Life price, but if I can brew a wide variety of interesting beers for per costs per 5 gallons comparable to something along the lines of bottled Budweiser (around $42), I'd be pretty happy.

I realize there are a lot of variables, and you could spend a lot on grains doing a barleywine or IRS or hops for an IPA. Let's assume we're doing something around 5-6% ABV and hopping it lightly to moderately. I'd also assume for AG that primary grains are bought in bulk and specialty grains by the pound.

Let me know roughly what I'd be looking at for 5 gallons using extract and 5 gallons with an AG.
 
There have been many people doing cost calcualations and comparisons before. You should be able to find a ton if you search. The concensus usually comes to be once you factor in your time and equipment it cost ALOT more. This isnt really something to do to try and save money. You could also go to an online store like austinhomebrew.com and look at the premade kits they have availble to get an idea.
 
Yeah there's at least 3 threads with the cost breakdowns on here that I can think of. If you search for the ubiquitous AG-vs- Extract threads, you'll find them.
 
i am half and half on this, i brew because i love to make my own beer, and can control the flavor....
but!
it can definately be cheaper than some of the better beers (e.g. a 5 gallon sam adams clone could be brewed cheaper than buying two cases of sam adams)
 
You CAN save money by brewing, but it all depends on how much and what you brew.

A nice $100or so bottling starter kit is cheap, and would pay itself off in savings pretty quickly if you stick to light beers.

I'd say start with a cheap extract kit and see how you like it. AG is a big upfront cost, especially for a casual brewer.
 
A nice 5% extract Pale ale kit with yeast will run between $25 and $40 depending on vendor, yeast and hops choices in the kit. Some beers are as low as $20 some over $50.

Add about $4 for propane for a full boil and a few cents for cleaners and sanitizers and it will cost you around $35 for a decent pale ale. You can also make a number of stouts, amber, brown etc. ales for a similar price. Big beers will cost more and it will cost about $5 extra for liquid yeast, which is suggested for Belgians, hefeweizen and other specialty styles.

All grain kits will save you $5-$10 depending.

You can save considerably more by buying in bulk and making recipes from your stock. My average beer costs about $15 + propane. A few people have priced out good beers at under $10, but they have gotten great prices on some bulk purchases.

Will you likely save money brewing? Not if you currently buy High Life. However if you buy micro 6-packs and don't increase your consumption it is possible to get ahead after a half dozen batches are so. But it is not likely you won't increase consumption, and its not likely you will hold off on upgrade temptations. Thus it is the rare person that saves money once they start the brewing hobby.

However it is a fun hobby and very much worth it even if you do not save money. If you enjoy the process it is a moderately priced hobby that you get to enjoy the results of.

Craig
 
between all of my other hobbies.

cars, guns, golf, paintball, video games, etc.

This has been by far the cheapest and intoxicating venture yet.

I do not want to even think about how much more money I have invested in the other stuff.
 
However it is a fun hobby and very much worth it even if you do not save money. If you enjoy the process it is a moderately priced hobby that you get to enjoy the results of.

That's the kicker for me.

It's about the cheapest hobby that's ever caught my attention, so I consider it a savings. I'm not spending my time on something infinitely more expensive!
 
We can split hairs on exactly what type of commercial beers tip the threshold to cost savings but there's a huge difference between high life and Belgians at $12 a 750ml. I'd bet you my entire brewery that you personally cannot brew high life for less than you can buy it. If you still want to brew, just show SWMBO the price of the raw ingredients ONLY. Ignore equipment, time, energy costs, etc. The hobby is rewarding in itself.
 
You can try to justify it to SWMBO all day long, and you are going to have to be like a politician if you do so. Leave out some key numbers, throw in some fluffed up data about how that $50 burner and $100 brewpot can be used for other things (I have BTW deep fried chicken wings in my sparge pot), and toss in a plug about five gallons of soda or seltzer water in one of those dozen kegs that you "need"

Hopefully that will distract her from the $50 a payday that you are spending on half a dozen commercial beers, because you want to try three different imperial IPA's for "brewery research," before you decide to brew one, even though before you started brewing the most expensive beer you bought was Sam Adams.

If you picked a simple recipe like Edwort's Haus Ale or BM Centennial Blonde, and that was all you ever drank, you could re-coup your initial investment pretty quick. But homebrewing is a hobby, and 99.99987% of hobbies never stop costing money.

Edit: Best bet is to find a hobby SWMBO is interested in (preferably a fairly expensive one) so you can use that as leverage. "You don't need a $400 pot to make beer in." "You are right baby, and you don't need $400 of colorful paper and ribbon to make cards with either, seeing as how you won't get them done for Christmas and will buy cards at the store anyway." "At least I'm using the stuff I make"
 
If you count how often you would go out to a bar/pub to drink beer then you save a buttload. But that depends how often you go out.
 
Two 12 packs of Sierra Neveada Celebration Ale around here is going to cost you close to 30 dollars maybe more some places. We brew an IPA pretty close to the SNCA. We do it all grain it costs us around the same price of buying the SNCA. Instead we brew a great IPA and get the satisfaction that we made something great.

Now dont get me wrong, I still buy a ton of the SNCA. I thinks its one of the best out there today.
 
A few weeks ago I posted a thread trying to explain that when I first got into brewing I was doing it because I loved beer but also because I wanted to save money. This hobby when you really think of it does not save you money. Myself and my buddies have spent probably over $5,000 in the past year on brewing stuff. Why do we keep doing it though??? Well because we are finally making some great beer and we love getting togeather and sharing our passion for it. I would say if you are brewing beer to save money instead of going to the local store and spending a ton, well ya im sure you can save money by brewing. Once you really get hooked by this hobby though dont plan on saving a thing and enjoy it :)
 
my partial mashes cost about 28-32 dollars per 5.5 gallons.

Wayyyyyyyyyyy cheaper then drinking regular ass light beer at your local club or bar.
 
I started brewing over 10 years ago because I could not find wheat beers anywhere - so I made my own. I stopped about 6 years ago due to work load and teenagers :) I recently became unemployed, and we had to cut back on everything, and I like to drink expensive micro-brewery beers. Since I already had the stuff, I decided to get back into home brewing to save money.

My 5 gallon batches cost me less than $30 (ok - sometimes I splurge and get the $36 kit that gets you 6% ABV for a Holiday Brew), I brew partial boils on my stove so I am not sure of the electric costs - so lets just say 5 gallons cost me $30 with electric and sanitation stuff. "My" kind of beer runs $8.99 (or more) a six pack nowdays - that comes out to about $39 a case with tax (no fuel charges). You can get over 50 12 oz. bottles on a 5 gallon batch, so that is about 2 cases worth.

So - in my case, I spend $30 or so for home brew, as opposed to $78 for commercial brews.

Yes - I already have all the equipment - but I use very basic stuff - a 3 gallon SS pot I got at Walmart, used glass 5 gallon water jugs for my fermentors I got at a garage sale for $5 (for three), re-used Grolsh bottles my Mom picked up at a garage sale (30 for $5) and some re-used pop top Sam Adams bottles, etc. You get the point. Sure - you can get "nice" stuff like wort chillers and stuff, but I get this for presents at B-Days and Christmas. Once you get a good basic setup - it is only materials and sanitation costs really.

But - at $15 for a 30 pack as you state - you are better off buying the High Life if you enjoy that beer and cost is a concern.

HTH,
Dan
 
I seem to spend $30-$35 per batch for ingredients, add in other costs and I'd say I'm in the $40 per 5 gallons range. Unless my calculations are all wrong that's about 8 6 packs... and at $9 per six for the type of beer that I like, I'm ahead.
Also agree that this is my least expensive hobby... and as a tournament bass fisherman, and a former weekend stock car racer I know about expensive hobbies! SWMBO likes that I can be home witht this hobby too.
 
No Canadians partake in this discussion... because it breaks our hearts to repeatedly read how the "expensive" beers are $8 / 6 pack.

Doing the math for north of the border, you definitely (can) save money with homebrew.

For us, the really, almost undrinkably cheap beers (lucky lager, or big bear anyone?) can be found for about a dollar a can. Good beers are $12-13 for six.

I can use basic equipment to make a decent extract for $45, or about $.74 / can. It's not as good at the $2 beers, but better than the $1 beers...

(I won't argue that it would be very easy to overspend on fancy equipment and negate the savings though!)

Also.... now that I have my keg system, we have friends over to hang out more often, and go to the pub less often... it's actually cheaper to feed all of my friends homebrew, than to pay for just myself at the bar!
 
Two 12 packs of Sierra Neveada Celebration Ale around here is going to cost you close to 30 dollars maybe more some places. We brew an IPA pretty close to the SNCA. We do it all grain it costs us around the same price of buying the SNCA. Instead we brew a great IPA and get the satisfaction that we made something great.

Now dont get me wrong, I still buy a ton of the SNCA. I thinks its one of the best out there today.

This is exactly the issue.

What I mean is that BrianTheBrewer is comparing a home brew he makes for far less than a 'similar' brew that can be bought in a store. If I was the type of person that enjoyed only Miller High Life (I actually do enjoy it every so often) then trying to brew a similar tasting brew just ain't going to happen at the same price as what High Life costs. However, I like IPAs and hoppy Micro-brew Pale Ales and those don't come nearly as cheap as High Life does (at least around by me). I am 100% positive that I brew Pale Ales and IPAs cheaper than similar ones I enjoy from the stores.

And of course....I enjoy home brewing.
 
As someone just coming into brewing, I'm trying to get a handle on costs (and justify things to SWMBO).

I definitely enjoy a wide variety of different and interesting beers.

The $8 (or more) six packs for the things I'd really like to be drinking seems excessive.

if I can brew a wide variety of interesting beers for per costs per 5 gallons comparable to something along the lines of bottled Budweiser (around $42), I'd be pretty happy.

Ok, so let's focus on the beers he wants to make. 5-6% beers and compared to the $8/6pk Microbrews.

Northern brewer lists a Nut Brown Ale at $22 for extract, $17 for AG. So that is the ingredients cost only, but unless you include water and propane (and if you are brewing on the stovetop, then I would NOT include the propane...) and yields 5 gallons.

That is comparing a Crafted Brown Ale to Badweiser. At least half price.

Now let's say that you are wanting to compare an IPA from teh store, with an IPA that you make yourself. Let's assume $8 /6pk for whatever IPA you choose (likely on the low end). and you get 48 beers in a 5 gallon batch. That's $48 for 5 gallons.

Northern Brewer lists an IPA recipe for $38 extract, and $30 for AG.

Now, you can quibble over things like actual cost if you include equipment, and time, and some of the consumables, but if it's a hobby, then your enjoyment ought to count for something, and anyway, you already listed what you wanted to include and not.

So, I'd say that yes, you can EASILY brew for much less!! LOL!, but I'm willing to bet that if you like brewing enough, you will spend more for equipment than the basic needs, and you will probably want to sample a few commercial beers "just to see if I want to brew it".

For maximum savings, try making equipment yourself, try using Deathbrewers Stovetop method for AG, and reuse beer bottles instead of buying new. (In Mich I can buy them from any store for the price of deposit).

EDIT: Ok, I forgot shipping, and add $2 also if you want them to crush your grains), but the difference is still pretty good.
 
I went to the grocery store last night and bought six, six packs of new belgium and deschutes brewery.

The total was $42.

:(


I need to find friends who drink more. It would be way cheaper than buying beer for the bottles. :D
 
Ok, so let's focus on the beers he wants to make. 5-6% beers and compared to the $8/6pk Microbrews.

Northern brewer lists a Nut Brown Ale at $22 for extract, $17 for AG. So that is the ingredients cost only, but unless you include water and propane (and if you are brewing on the stovetop, then I would NOT include the propane...) and yields 5 gallons.

That is comparing a Crafted Brown Ale to Badweiser. At least half price.

Now let's say that you are wanting to compare an IPA from teh store, with an IPA that you make yourself. Let's assume $8 /6pk for whatever IPA you choose (likely on the low end). and you get 48 beers in a 5 gallon batch. That's $48 for 5 gallons.

Northern Brewer lists an IPA recipe for $38 extract, and $30 for AG.

Now, you can quibble over things like actual cost if you include equipment, and time, and some of the consumables, but if it's a hobby, then your enjoyment ought to count for something, and anyway, you already listed what you wanted to include and not.

So, I'd say that yes, you can EASILY brew for much less!! LOL!, but I'm willing to bet that if you like brewing enough, you will spend more for equipment than the basic needs, and you will probably want to sample a few commercial beers "just to see if I want to brew it".

For maximum savings, try making equipment yourself, try using Deathbrewers Stovetop method for AG, and reuse beer bottles instead of buying new. (In Mich I can buy them from any store for the price of deposit).

EDIT: Ok, I forgot shipping, and add $2 also if you want them to crush your grains), but the difference is still pretty good.

Considering he's interested in macroswill, getting into IPAs and other higher end beers is manipulating the details. Even in the IPA comparison, since you went there, you're talking about saving $10 to brew it just on ingredients (assuming extract). Add $2 for natural gas, $1 for making the ice for your ice bath, 50 cents for water if you're on city water or $5 if you use bottled.

That's getting pretty close to breaking even without amortizing equipment costs.

Labor? If you like brewing as a hobby go ahead and disregard it. If all you care about is cheap beer and could take or leave the hobby, figure out your hourly worth and multiply by at least 2.5 hours.
 
I brewed a batch of Blue Moon clone. It costed me ~$35 (with dry yeast + s/h).

If I would to buy an equivalent amount of beer (5 gallons) which would be roughly 48 x 12oz which would mean 8 six packs. $10.49 x 8 = $83.92 + 5 cents deposit x 48 = $86.32 + possibly tax, etc.

I know that I can get kits with liquid yeast which I will use from now on for under $40 if I buy a few of them to save on shipping. Thats 1/2 of what I would pay for commercial beer. Now if you talk about paying at the bar then its $6 x 48 = $288. I went to a bar yesterday and had a Blue Moon, I can definitely agree that my version tasted better even though I used dry yeast (still somewhat a newb). I will brew it again with liquid yeast and I am sure it will taste 100x better.
 
ya know, the best thing, is that you can make extreme beers a LOT cheaper.
look at the Newport Storm limited yearly releases, Dogfishhead's stronger stuff (W.W.S., 120,O.S.B., etc.), Avery's "Demons Of Ale" series....etc.

imagine buying a case of Mephistopheles
8.99 x 24 = 215.76

i have made a 2 gallon, 16 % A.B.V. Imperial Stout, that was almost as tasty as "Meph" for 80 dollars worth of ingredients (partial mash)
 
You CAN make really good beers but you can also screw up pretty good too. I know if I got a bad case of commercial, it would go right back. If you brew a crappy batch, it's going down the toilet.
 
Many have said this, but yes if you don't include the cost of the equipment, you can start saving a bundle if you buy in bulk, hops for a $1/oz or less even, grain for under $1/lb and using dry yeast or reusing yeast.

I think you could do a 12-14lb grain brew with 3-4 oz of hops for less than $20 that will result in 50 beers or .40c a beer. That's pretty good, but again, that is not taking any other factors other than materials into account.

Time, power, gas, equipment are the biggest contributors unless you are pumping out like 4 batches a week and can get your ROI (return on investment) over and done with very quickly. You would also have to go through that. I don't know of anyone that goes through 200 beers a week :drunk: Maybe a Fraternity could do this.

It's all about drinking the brew that YOU made though!
 
Six weeks after skiing, you have an old lift ticket worth....

Six weeks after a fishing trip, you have two pounds of crappie in the freezer...

So six weeks after you have the fun of brewing you have $60 worth of beer.

Minus the cost of skis, boots, fishing boat....
 
One thing I love about homebrewing is how cheap homebrewers are. I think about homebrewing at least twice a day and do something related to it once a week. For a hobby that costs $25-$65 dollars per month that's a hell of alot of distraction and amusement. My other lawyer friends golf. I shudder to make the comparison in terms of cost and enjoyment. I worry about costs too, but then like many of you, I'm cheap.
 
i am half and half on this, i brew because i love to make my own beer, and can control the flavor....
but!
it can definately be cheaper than some of the better beers (e.g. a 5 gallon sam adams clone could be brewed cheaper than buying two cases of sam adams)

I agree. When you have expensive tastes in beers, then you can definitely save money. Of course, it takes a lot of equipment, experience, work, and time to get your skills up to par to take on the good brewers beers.
 
I agree. When you have expensive tastes in beers, then you can definitely save money. Of course, it takes a lot of equipment, experience, work, and time to get your skills up to par to take on the good brewers beers.


it certainly does take work and experience, and it is absolutely worth the work! :)
 
Six weeks after skiing, you have an old lift ticket worth....

Six weeks after a fishing trip, you have two pounds of crappie in the freezer...

So six weeks after you have the fun of brewing you have $60 worth of beer.

Minus the cost of skis, boots, fishing boat....


wow......
i couldn't think of a better way to put it into perspective.
that just rules
 
wow......
i couldn't think of a better way to put it into perspective.
that just rules

I don't disagree with the fact that homebrewing is a great hobby that also happens to result in tasty product for a relative break even cost. What's important to put in perspective is the fact that many of these threads SEEM to be asking the question of whether or not making your own beer is a "cheap" way of getting beer.

In that light, the skiing analogy fails. It supposes that the payoff is the activity itself so there would never be any question of cost for product (unless someone was asking if skiing was a cost effective way to break your leg).

The fishing analogy DOES play in pretty well if the question asked was "is catching my own a cheaper way to obtain fish?". Just like the beer question, you'd have to ask exactly what kind of fish they are interested in catching? Swordfish is more expensive to catch than local river trout.

Homebrewing is a relatively cheap way of obtaining beer if you like to homebrew. It's extremely expensive if you hate it.
 
Considering he's interested in macroswill, getting into IPAs and other higher end beers is manipulating the details. Even in the IPA comparison, since you went there, you're talking about saving $10 to brew it just on ingredients (assuming extract). Add $2 for natural gas, $1 for making the ice for your ice bath, 50 cents for water if you're on city water or $5 if you use bottled.

That's getting pretty close to breaking even without amortizing equipment costs.

Labor? If you like brewing as a hobby go ahead and disregard it. If all you care about is cheap beer and could take or leave the hobby, figure out your hourly worth and multiply by at least 2.5 hours.

Actually, I tried to do a comparison with what he WANTED to brew, which is $8 6pax. 5-6% ABV. He wasn't asking about BMC macroswill. He also wanted to disregard water, etc. I have no idea what gas costs to brew a batch of beer. I doubt it's $2 for natural gas though.

I didn't compare with the beers that are VERY expensive, that could save lots more if you cloned them yourself.
 
You're right. I reread what his intent was and he's looking for a middle of the road brew for ultimately less than $40 a 5 gallon batch.

We know that nat gas is cheaper than propane, but it's still enough to consider. I pay $2 per therm delivered which is about 100kBTU. The literal cost would vary depending on what brewing method you use. For extract it would be much cheaper because doing a 2 gallon partial boil would require something like a 10kBTU stovetop burner running for about 2 hours (initial ramp up and then 1 hour boil) and that's only 50 cents worth of gas.

For my all grain brewing I run my 100kBTU burners for 1-2 hours heating strike and sparge, then sometimes 90 minute wort boil. I'm into $3 average.

I've heard of people getting 2-3 all grain brew sessions out of a 20lb propane tank and those fills are $15-20.
 
I don't disagree with the fact that homebrewing is a great hobby that also happens to result in tasty product for a relative break even cost. What's important to put in perspective is the fact that many of these threads SEEM to be asking the question of whether or not making your own beer is a "cheap" way of getting beer.

In that light, the skiing analogy fails. It supposes that the payoff is the activity itself so there would never be any question of cost for product (unless someone was asking if skiing was a cost effective way to break your leg).

The fishing analogy DOES play in pretty well if the question asked was "is catching my own a cheaper way to obtain fish?". Just like the beer question, you'd have to ask exactly what kind of fish they are interested in catching? Swordfish is more expensive to catch than local river trout.

Homebrewing is a relatively cheap way of obtaining beer if you like to homebrew. It's extremely expensive if you hate it.

This is exactly right. In essence, it's up to the individual how "cheap" homebrewing can be because the "cost" of time spent in brewing-related activities is relative to the brewer. Ingredients/equipment costs equal, if the brewer simply loves to brew and views it as a recreation, the "cost" of time is nil. If the brewer is doing it in an attempt for a "cheaper" way to get beer, brewing is more like work and the time spent doing it is of greater value. So, it's a paradox... the more one brews to SAVE money, the more it costs (time = money).
 
Yep. I also made my comments based on extract brewing, which is all I've done so far, and forgot that AG requires a bit more time on the stove.

Also, I agree that the relative cost for brewing is very different for each person. I have friends who drive 8-12 hours to go caving in KY, IN, WV, and it was fun for me for a while, but while I still enjoy caving, I just don't consider it fun enough to do that every time. It can be a hassle, and when gas was $4.00 a gallon, kind of expensive for 6-8 hours of crawling around in cold water or mud. (of course, that is also part of the fun. Especially when you are surveying, which I don't get to do enough of...) when you have to drive basically 2 days for 1 day of caving.

I guess I could think of more expensive hobbies, and lots less expensive hobbies, but I really enjoy brewing, and wish I could do more, and get better at it.
 
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