New to the hobby

Hello everyone,

I got a couple quick questions since I can't seem to find the answer anywhere. I just picked up 2 kits, first is cellar craft california cab and the second is a world vineyard riesling. Ok so what I was wondering is if i should snap both lids down tight or leave them cracked to allow some gas release? For the cab I'm to open and stir daily and I was wondering if I should do the same with the riesling even though its not in the directions. Yes I know I should follow directions to a T, but they are pretty generic for all the kits. On the other hand there is a lot of experience in this forum and I'm sure some people have discovered little tips and tricks here and there over time. So any information will help on what I should do during the fermenting stage for both the red and white.

Thanks

If you snap the lid on and it is airtight and you have no way for CO2 to escape you will pop your top.

Welcome to the forum!!!

Just let them rest on top, they are a pain to remove.

nlkips said:

Hello everyone,

I got a couple quick questions since I can't seem to find the answer anywhere. I just picked up 2 kits, first is cellar craft california cab and the second is a world vineyard riesling. Ok so what I was wondering is if i should snap both lids down tight or leave them cracked to allow some gas release? For the cab I'm to open and stir daily and I was wondering if I should do the same with the riesling even though its not in the directions. Yes I know I should follow directions to a T, but they are pretty generic for all the kits. On the other hand there is a lot of experience in this forum and I'm sure some people have discovered little tips and tricks here and there over time. So any information will help on what I should do during the fermenting stage for both the red and white.

Thanks

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Umm, did your buckets come with airlocks? Don't stir the Reisling, and ferment the Reisling @ a lower temp if possible (low 60's) as that brings out/preserves more of the fruit character. Also, look into getting yeast that is taylored to a specific style of wine that you are making. EC-1118 is a good yeast, but very generic and does nothing to 'enhance' a wine.

Thanks guys for the info. So I just want to clarify with the riesling, should I keep the lid in place or pop it and just not stir it? The lid of the cab has an airlock, but the riesling doesn't. I can pop both lids tonight when I give the cab a stir and also move the riesling to the basement where it is cooler. The temp down there is about 55, but I do have a heat belt that I can leave on it keep it up a little more. And I'll keep the cab in the kitchen where it is usually 68-70. Thanks for the heads up on the yeast. I'll keep that in mind for the next kit

Glad to help. Yes, if you have no airlock you need to release the co2 somehow. Cracking the lid will work, but as fermentation slows down, you will need to move that wine to an airlocked vessel of some sort (carboy for ex.).

Drill a hole, add a grommet, then add an airlock. You don't want to lose your investment to infection from air.

See 'A' for answers...

First, I just want to say each kit manufacturer goes thru a lot of R&D before they release their product, so their instructions are pretty direct and easy to follow. Here is a link where you can review your kit instructions, assuming it is the World Vineyards Washington Riesling... http://www.midwestsupplies.com/washington-riesling-world-vineyard.html

So I just want to clarify with the riesling, should I keep the lid in place or pop it and just not stir it?
A: During the early phase of fermentation the yeast produce CO2 and alcohol. The CO2 rests like a blanket above your liquid. If you have an airlock in place any gas buildup will bubble thru the water seal and out of bucket. If you snap the lid on, and it is airtight & there is no airlock, you risk the lid flying off--and even if you plan to pop the sealed lid to release pressure there is no guarantee you will get there in time. There is absolutely nothing wrong with just resting the lid on the bucket as a cover, not a seal, during the early stage of ferment, say until your SG drops by 2/3 or 3/4, or until your kit instructions tell you to transfer to secondary container/carboy and apply airlock, which is 1.010 or less for your kit (see instructions). Your kit recommends just resting the clean/sanitized lid on the bucket.

On temperature, just be sure you look at the temp range of the yeast you are using. Chart here: http://winemakermag.com/guide/yeast. If it is EC-1118, your range is 45-95F, but your kit recommends a temp of 65-75F, of course any lower and the ferment can take longer to reach the desired SG in order to proceed to next step.

So I popped and left both lids loose after i stirred the cab the other night. Last night the cab had a nice layer of foam over the top and I could here a lot of gas exchange. Gave it a nice gentle stirring for a couple minutes and place the cover loosely back on top. Decide to have a peak at the riesling and it there isn't as much activity inside, but I can hear some gas exchange going on so I'm guessing things are going well with both. I'm not going to bother cutting a hole in the other lid for an airlock since there doesnt seem to be a point to ruining that lid for no reason. I've got 3 carboys in the basement so I'm good for when I transfer over after the fermenting stage.

Just curious on the fermenting stage with yeast. If it takes longer to ferment will that improve the quality of the wine or is that something I shouldn't fool around with as I'm inexperienced at this point and should just get used to making what will hopefully be a good wine?

Thanks again for the help

It's homebrewing! Don't worry too much, if you use common sense, you will come out with wine. fermentation can be very different for different wines, and should be! It's part of what makes them different. I try to ferment my fruit forward wines at lower temps, and my bolder, tannic wines a bit hotter.

nlkips said:

So I popped and left both lids loose after i stirred the cab the other night. Last night the cab had a nice layer of foam over the top and I could here a lot of gas exchange. Gave it a nice gentle stirring for a couple minutes and place the cover loosely back on top. Decide to have a peak at the riesling and it there isn't as much activity inside, but I can hear some gas exchange going on so I'm guessing things are going well with both. I'm not going to bother cutting a hole in the other lid for an airlock since there doesnt seem to be a point to ruining that lid for no reason. I've got 3 carboys in the basement so I'm good for when I transfer over after the fermenting stage.

Just curious on the fermenting stage with yeast. If it takes longer to ferment will that improve the quality of the wine or is that something I shouldn't fool around with as I'm inexperienced at this point and should just get used to making what will hopefully be a good wine?

Thanks again for the help

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Put the Riesling in the cellar and check the gravity in 2 weeks. Because of the lower fermentation temps the lag phase will be longer. Leave the lid loose or swap it out with the lid that came with the airlock. You do not want to expose the white to any oxygen. Red wine has anthocynins which are antioxidants and help protect it from oxidation. Your white does not so you must treat it very delicately. Lower fermentation temps will result in the retention of fruity esters that are produced by the yeast during fermentation. The cooler the temp the more retention however too cold will result in a slow and possibly stuck fermentation. 55 is great for most wht wine yeasts. After you check you whet in two weeks it should be around 10 Brit bailing. Leave it for a week more then move to a warmer area maybe 60-65f to ensure the wine finishes. Once it's dry (-0.5 Brit or more) hit it with 40 ppm KMBS which should leave you with ~25 ppm or so free SO2.

Cold/heat stab it and your bottling in June.

Good luck

I will give that a shot on the next kit of riesling or whatever white we pick up. I have kept it up next to the cab to keep the temps close to what is in the instructions so with 2-3 days before the transfer to the carboy I'm just going to keep it there.

Also, I'm not sure what a Brit is for a measurement and I'm assuming the 40 ppm KMBS is the 4g pack of potassium metabisulphite. It has been awhile since I've had to think about highschool chemistry. I'll also see if I can find some info on the cold/heat stab it method you mentioned.

nlkips said:

I will give that a shot on the next kit of riesling or whatever white we pick up. I have kept it up next to the cab to keep the temps close to what is in the instructions so with 2-3 days before the transfer to the carboy I'm just going to keep it there.

Also, I'm not sure what a Brit is for a measurement and I'm assuming the 40 ppm KMBS is the 4g pack of potassium metabisulphite. It has been awhile since I've had to think about highschool chemistry. I'll also see if I can find some info on the cold/heat stab it method you mentioned.

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Sorry I meant BRIX. Stupid iPad spell check usually gets the best of me. As far as temps, fermenting a white at a reasonably high temperature sure will make wine which I'm sure is the goal of the kit makers. Next kit you get ferment it down in your cellar you'll be very happy with the result. Not sure what yeast they gave you I've actually never made wine from one of those kits but you should use something like vin 13 made by anchor yeast. I used to make wine for a living now I'm a wine consultant for some small to mid size wineries in California. Sorry for the acronyms there just a habit. KMBS is potassium meta bisulfate and for a wine with a pH <3.85 you want around 30 parts per million. That will inhibit any kind of bacterial activity that can turn your kit into vinegar.

Cold and heat stability is extremely important on a commercial standpoint. However I'm sure you won't mind a bit of cloudiness in your finished wine. To get rid of unstable proteins in your wine you can use bentonite clay for heat stability and cream of tartar for cold stability. Both products do not strip wine of delicate favors like other more aggressive fining agents.

Check out this website vinoenology.com it is a great resource when making adjustments to your wine.

Good luck

Haha no worries and the acronyms is just something else I'll learn as my experience grows. Great advice and I will check out that site.

This kit is some what in a rush or I should say recommended time from the kit maker so the lady can start drinking this instead of retail bottles at $15-20 each. When its bottled I can start playing around with the next kit or two.

nlkips said:

Haha no worries and the acronyms is just something else I'll learn as my experience grows. Great advice and I will check out that site.

This kit is some what in a rush or I should say recommended time from the kit maker so the lady can start drinking this instead of retail bottles at $15-20 each. When its bottled I can start playing around with the next kit or two.

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I see I see.

Get that stuff in the bottle

Your telling me. One thing I'm going to look into doing is carbonating a white and having it on tap for the summer months

So checked the sg and it was 1.000 so I transferred it over to the carboy and it is smelling great. A couple more days and the red should be ready to get transferred over and I might grab another kit since I got one carboy left to use and all my buckets are freed up. I'm pretty pumped and looking forward to these finishing up for a quick sample when bottling and then waiting a couple months as they age. A monster might have been created

Lol, that's how it starts! You suddenly realize:

A- hey, this tastes good!

B- hey, that was pretty easy!

;-)

WilliamSlayer said:

Lol, that's how it starts! You suddenly realize:

A- hey, this tastes good!

B- hey, that was pretty easy!

;-)

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C- hey, I'm obsessed and this is all I think about!

Yeah all of the above

Definitely one of the best hobbies I've had so far. Should get better in a couple months when I get to enjoy the later part of it

Not sure if I messed up the cab at this point. It is sitting in the carboy in the secondary fermentation stage for the past 5 days and nothing is going on. The same as if it was water in there. To give you and idea of what went on up to this point here is what happened up until now. The kit calls to be racked to the carboy at days 10-12. So from day 10-12 it was reading 1.000-1.010 and was suppose to be 1.000 or lower. Day 13 it was .999 so I racked it over. Also from day 10 and on it was just plain in the bucket with no reactions happening just as it is now in the secondary fermentation stage. I would guess that there would still be gasses produced while it is fermenting. According to the directions I wait until day 20-22 before I begin clearing and degassing once it reaches .998 or less. So is this normal for it to just sit there or did I mess something up by waiting a little longer before raking it over?

nlkips said:

Not sure if I messed up the cab at this point. It is sitting in the carboy in the secondary fermentation stage for the past 5 days and nothing is going on. The same as if it was water in there. To give you and idea of what went on up to this point here is what happened up until now. The kit calls to be racked to the carboy at days 10-12. So from day 10-12 it was reading 1.000-1.010 and was suppose to be 1.000 or lower. Day 13 it was .999 so I racked it over. Also from day 10 and on it was just plain in the bucket with no reactions happening just as it is now in the secondary fermentation stage. I would guess that there would still be gasses produced while it is fermenting. According to the directions I wait until day 20-22 before I begin clearing and degassing once it reaches .998 or less. So is this normal for it to just sit there or did I mess something up by waiting a little longer before raking it over?

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It's all good. At .999 don't expect your airlock to be popping like crazy, there isn't much sugar left, it's still fermenting and producing Co2 it's just really slow...not the mention there is still a ton of co2 dissolved in there that has to gas-out. Right now you are basically just waiting for the wine to degass and the particles to fall out of suspension.

Ok thats good to hear. I just haven't seen any activity or a bubble on the wine so I was a little nervous. If it continues this way I can assume degassing will be a breeze or am I wrong?

Thanks again everyone for all the help as I get my feet wet. Talked the lady into a niagara mist kit to buy the riesling some time to age. Also put on a selection original series barolo a couple nights ago and the mist kit will be going on tonight. This will be it for a while as I'm running out of space and already short on cork bottles.

Yup, you are going to see the gas as you de-gas, its in there! Just know you are on the right track, and remember that folks have been doing this for thousands of years!

Ahhh now the barolo is overflowing out the bucket. Cleaned it up and removed the heat belt. Is there anything I should do or just leave it be?

nlkips said:

Ahhh now the barolo is overflowing out the bucket. Cleaned it up and removed the heat belt. Is there anything I should do or just leave it be?

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Just leave it. Barolo is one of my favorite wines, let me know how the kit turns out.

Will do. My dad has a couple kits he did in the past and whenever I make it home each year I always snag a few. Got one in my wine rack right now that he bottled in Jan 09. It's absolutely amazing along with all his other wines.

So it's time to add some stuff to the Riesling and degas it. I had a broken spoon and some zap straps and figured I would enlarge the hole in the end and put 2 straps through for degassing and I think it turned out well. Here is what it looked like after the first minute of whipping it back and forth a couple times

Be careful not to ADD oxygen while removing the CO2!

Didn't seem to be any issues and I believe it degassed after doing this for a couple hours as a balloon I placed over the top eventually stopped inflating. Todays work will be making a trolly for moving the carboys around instead of relying on the handle.

Ok back to the cab with what I thought was having some problems with. After 10 days in the carboy and not seeing any activity and the sg. staying exactly the same I starting to wonder if something is wrong. Do I wait longer and check again or does it sound like the yeast has done nothing for the past 10 days and I need to get this going again? At this point I according to the directions I should be getting ready to clear. The only other thing I can throw out there to why nothing has happened as the temperature is about 5 degrees F lower. So I'm just curious if I leave it alone for another couple days, add yeast, or add a heat belt?