Selling of the Homebrew...

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sheeshomatic

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I know there have been threads about whether or not people sell their beer to friends, family, etc - even people starting nanobreweries and whatnot. I'm hoping this question is a little different.

I've been brewing for a few years, and just like most of you, it's starting to become a pretty regular habit and sometimes a near obsession. I've displaced much of my freezer space for hops and I have storage bins for sacks of grain. A lot of this has been at the behest of my friends who are generally astounded that anyone can make beer this good using basically a cooler and a turkey fryer.

They all want to buy it. They tell their friends about it. They have tried it. They want to buy it. Not a bad problem to have at all. The trouble is of course, doing it legally. NJ is not known for being very simple about selling alcohol. I could do everything under the table of course, but if I start selling a few thousand dollars worth of beer a year, then I'd rather do it on the up and up if I can.

Here's my idea - I'd like to sell custom recipes to my customers. They ask for a particular kind of beer, or choose from one of my own creations. Then, they purchase the INGREDIENTS from me (at a premium of course). They give them to me and come back 6 weeks later for their ingredients, which somehow were turned into liquid. So, they're not buying the beer per se, but the grain, hops and yeast. I'm giving them the beer. I could then start a simple LLC and not have to worry about the ATF banging my door down. I'm thinking they probably would anyway - anyone have any thoughts?
 
You're treading on very shaky ground there, friend. If you do that and someone gets sick, blames you, reports you, ATF comes to your home, etc. ruining your chances of brewing legit later on down the line.

The rules are simple: legal to brew it, legal own it, legal to drink it. the second you sell it, you're breaking the law. end of story, i'm afraid.

However, if your friends gifted you grain, hops, yeast and you turned it into beer as a gift to them, that's probably different. You cannot make a profit. You make a profit, you must be taxed. Not only a NJ law, but a federal one AFAIK.
 
You're treading on very shaky ground there, friend. If you do that and someone gets sick, blames you, reports you, ATF comes to your home, etc. ruining your chances of brewing legit later on down the line.

The rules are simple: legal to brew it, legal own it, legal to drink it. the second you sell it, you're breaking the law. end of story, i'm afraid.

However, if your friends gifted you grain, hops, yeast and you turned it into beer as a gift to them, that's probably different. You cannot make a profit. You make a profit, you must be taxed. Not only a NJ law, but a federal one AFAIK.

I would go the gifting route, perhaps keeping half of the "gift".
 
You're treading on very shaky ground there, friend. If you do that and someone gets sick, blames you, reports you, ATF comes to your home, etc. ruining your chances of brewing legit later on down the line.

The rules are simple: legal to brew it, legal own it, legal to drink it. the second you sell it, you're breaking the law. end of story, i'm afraid.

However, if your friends gifted you grain, hops, yeast and you turned it into beer as a gift to them, that's probably different. You cannot make a profit. You make a profit, you must be taxed. Not only a NJ law, but a federal one AFAIK.

Good point about the health issues. To be clear, I'd plan on reporting the profit on the GRAIN sales to the state. The customer would then gift the grain back to me and I'd gift them the beer.

It sounds wacky, but this state works in odd ways. We have a lot of dry towns- they can't have a bar, or sell alcohol at a restaurant, yet they can have liquor stores. There are at least two restaurants near me that have liquor/wine stores IN the restaurant. You can ask your waiter to go buy you a bottle of cab and she'll bring it to your table, etc.. It's insanity.
 
It is a bad idea. The finished product is beer and that means you are selling it. You can use as fancy of wording as you like but it is illegal to sell homebrew, no exceptions.
When you sell the beer you create legally, you are a brewery and are no longer selling homebrew but comercial beer, IMO stop thinking about making money and start getting people involved with homebrewing.
 
But you're doing the brewing for them, which is selling them beer. NJ Homebrew Law states pretty clearly that home produced alcohol is for personal or household consumption. I would say "mysteriously" giving it away to someone does not fall within either of those. Though, if you really would consider doing this illegally, why would you even post it on the internet?
 
NJ sucks, federal jam ups from illegal doings suck more.

Do it right or dont do it. Nobody here is going to encourage you to break the law. We enjoy our rights and dont want scam artists and back room deals to ruin them.
 
For once I would like someone to bring an idea like this to the state to try to get it approved and tell us first hand how it goes. Pretty sure it wouldn't happen but I would feel better than a bunch of internet strangers telling you you can't do something.

another thought.... If you could do this wouldn't you be harming the existing commercial brewing industry? I mean you provide the same product but without all the regulation and taxation the real breweries are subject to giving this business model an unfair advantage.
 
Not to mention, if doing this for others on a regular basis, your 100 Gallon (200 if your married) limit would be accounted for pretty quickly.
 
OP - Sell your service, take the grain to their house, brew it with them, watch them pitch the yeast * then show up in 6 weeks and bottle. of course this really only works for an ale. Lagers needing fridges screw up this idea. Basically you end up as a sort of "brew on premisis" where the premisis is the other guys house.

*I'm trying to remember if that one is federal, or my state, but I know whoever pitches the yeast where I live 'owns' the beer and is the brewer. I thought is was federal, but I'm not sure.
 
For once I would like someone to bring an idea like this to the state to try to get it approved and tell us first hand how it goes. Pretty sure it wouldn't happen but I would feel better than a bunch of internet strangers telling you you can't do something.

another thought.... If you could do this wouldn't you be harming the existing commercial brewing industry? I mean you provide the same product but without all the regulation and taxation the real breweries are subject to giving this business model an unfair advantage.

At the scale I'd be doing this, I think 'harm' is far too strong a term, but I appreciate the thoughts - I really think the largest issue is with gifting the beer since it is not used for my own consumption. Regulations and such are another thing entirely.

this, +1.

If this is what you really want to do research becoming a nano brewery.

And I am. I'm trying to explore a lot of options actually.

Nobody here is going to encourage you to break the law. We enjoy our rights and dont want scam artists and back room deals to ruin them.

One, I'm not a scam artist, and two I'm not blatantly trying to break any laws. I certainly respect my fellow homebrewers and craft brewers. This post was a sounding board. I'm not looking to anger anyone.
 
OP - Sell your service, take the grain to their house, brew it with them, watch them pitch the yeast * then show up in 6 weeks and bottle. of course this really only works for an ale. Lagers needing fridges screw up this idea. Basically you end up as a sort of "brew on premisis" where the premisis is the other guys house.

*I'm trying to remember if that one is federal, or my state, but I know whoever pitches the yeast where I live 'owns' the beer and is the brewer. I thought is was federal, but I'm not sure.

Good call.
 
*edit*

Whoops, ACbrewer said basically what I was going to say.




The only way I think you could get it to work is selling them the ingredients(for a premium) and then "helping them" brew their own beer. Use all your own equipment but have them over for a brewday where you brew their beer.
 
In addition to selling beer, or at least functioning as a brew on premise, there are likely zoning and health/safety ordinances you would violate.
 
Don't forget that the majority of states still work on the three tier system, so even if you COULD sell homebrew in these states, you could only wholesale it to distributors, not directly to the public.

To me, though, common sense says keep your mouth shut and brew beer for a handful of friends and the ATF isn't going to give a crap.

What I do when a friend want some of my beer is they buy the ingredients, they come over to hang out on brewday and bottling day, and I "profit" a 12 pack of the final product. Everyone wins, no $$$ changes hands, and the attorney general, IRS, ATF, and al Queda couldn't care less.

It kinda falls in the category of Fantasy Football and weekly home poker games - technically illegal, but use a little common sense and no one gives a shizzz.

Brew on!
 
If you'd like to sell in-house tutorials on making beer, then I can't see a problem. As long as it's done in THEIR house and THEY pitch the yeast, then no problem.

If you are brewing beer at YOUR place, and getting any kind of compensation for it, your a brewer, not a homebrewer.

If you want to make beer and sell it to people, check into the various brewing licenses and go form there. You may be required to have a special brewing area outside of the residence in order to make it work. This varies by state law.
 
Oh, and I recommend showing people how much work it is and letting them get their hands into it. They will either

A) appreciate you more for it, or

B) start brewing their own beer.
 
Don't forget that the majority of states still work on the three tier system, so even if you COULD sell homebrew in these states, you could only wholesale it to distributors, not directly to the public.!


Some havr different rules for Micro and Nano brewers allowing them to self distribute in a limited area.
 
NJ will lock your ass up for the next 15 years because you kept a few bucks from some politicians pocket.

We're just now getting to the point where we don't need the yearly license thing to brew in our own homes (you HAVE had one of these right :D )

However, after having a few brews at my LHBS I discovered that there are many different types of liquor licenses available. Some are actually pretty inexpensive. (Like the one that lets folks consume beer at the LHBS premise).

There are quite a few nano brewery's in NJ surprisingly. Google them up! That license might be cheaper than you realize and you won't be looking over your shoulder.
 
You aren't trying to break any laws? How is circumventing them by deceptive means not breaking the law?

Grow up.
 
Locked it.

It is illegal, please do not discuss selling home brew or loopholes in regard to selling it.
 
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