I can't believe I'm about to post this...

...but I have an unexpected high "final" gravity reading and I'm not sure how to account for it. Note that I did not say that the fermentation is stuck, because I do not think that it actually is. I'm just surprised that the gravity is not lower. Here're some details:

• Foreign Export Stout
• All-Grain
• OG 1.062
• Current gravity: 1.024 (via calibrated hydrometer )
• Brewed on 1/17/13
• aerated 20 minutes with aquarium pump and air stome
• Pitched a healthy starter of wlp001
• fermentation looked great - took off within 12 hours, had a nice foamy krausen
• fermented at 64°F for first 10 days...warmed up to 68°F since then

74% Maris Otter
8% Roasted Barley
6% Caraamber
6% Crystal 150L
4% Chocolate malt
2% Black malt

mashed at ~152°F

I expected the beer to be down lower - closer to 1.014-1.016. Even the "Imperial Porter" I brewed last year went from 1.090 to 1.020. I am not overly worried - I tasted the hydrometer sample and it was good. More or less just curious if I should expect a lower gravity given my recipe/process. Or are all those dark and crystal malts leaving a lot of unfermentables in there? By all accounts it seems like it should be done fermenting. I was just shocked when I took the hydrometer reading this morning.

The mysterious ways of yeast . . .

It seems like you've covered all the bases, it should be much lower. Two thoughts:

I don't know Caraamber, but added to the Crystal 150 you've got 12% cara/crystal, which would bump your fg up

I wonder if your hydrometer was being help up (bouyed up) by CO2 in the sample? Maybe take another sample and let it sit out for a few hours and then read it.

Pappers_ said:

The mysterious ways of yeast . . .

It seems like you've covered all the bases, it should be much lower. Two thoughts:

I don't know Caraamber, but added to the Crystal 150 you've got 12% cara/crystal, which would bump your fg up

I wonder if your hydrometer was being help up (bouyed up) by CO2 in the sample? Maybe take another sample and let it sit out for a few hours and then read it.

Click to expand...

Good point about the crystal - I tend not to use a lot of crystal malt, so I have little experience with its effects on FG. This was a recipe I got from the good folks at Snake River Brewing Company, so I tried not to stray too far from the original. But still, I feel like it should be lower and I'm pretty confident in my process, so I can't really account for it.

I'll try leaving a sample out like you suggested. Maybe I just misread this hydrometer too - I hadn't had my morning coffee yet!

The roasted grain amounts would be my guess, too. I'm sure it's a perfectly great beer though.

I agree that it probably is all the roasted grains. It might just not go any lower. I did a stout with a lot of roasted grains and if I remember correctly it also finished high. Somewhere in that range.

JLem said:

Good point about the crystal - I tend not to use a lot of crystal malt, so I have little experience with its effects on FG. This was a recipe I got from the good folks at Snake River Brewing Company, so I tried not to stray too far from the original. But still, I feel like it should be lower and I'm pretty confident in my process, so I can't really account for it.

I'll try leaving a sample out like you suggested. Maybe I just misread this hydrometer too - I hadn't had my morning coffee yet!

Click to expand...

Seems like you know someone over in the brewery. Does your buddy get it that low? Does seem like a decent amount of crystal but in something like this i would think you need it but could also get down to .20-21

I would think like pappers also said possibly co2 buoy...?

Was is a fresh vial or slurry?

I also agree that the roasted and caramel malts are what kept your FG high... 26% of the malts in the recipe have limited fermentability which likely account for what you are seeing.

John Palmer explains it better than I do here: http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter20-1.html

Orfy has a mild recipe posted that I make frequently. Just for comparison. It has 22% c 60. It also has 4% chocolate. Not in the recipe but I added 1% black patent. The two most recent batches I mashed a little higher than you but my temp control sucks and I have to add heat and stir so this is a big variable for me.

First one dropped from 1.040 to 1.016. Second one from 1.038 to 1.014. You started higher but had half the caramel malts.

Pappers_ said:

I wonder if your hydrometer was being help up (bouyed up) by CO2 in the sample? Maybe take another sample and let it sit out for a few hours and then read it.

Click to expand...

There's a good explanation of the CO2 effect by AJ Delange in this thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/does-co2-affect-gravity-286783/

Johnnyhitch1 said:

Seems like you know someone over in the brewery. Does your buddy get it that low? Does seem like a decent amount of crystal but in something like this i would think you need it but could also get down to .20-21

I would think like pappers also said possibly co2 buoy...?

Was is a fresh vial or slurry?

Click to expand...

I actually don't know anyone at the brewery - I simply emailed them for the recipe and one of the brewers was kind enough to send along their Excel brewsheet. According to the specs he sent me...their beer starts at 16 Plato, which is 1.065 SG and is 6% ABV. According to my calculations this would put an FG at 1.019 - 1.020, so I guess I am not as far off as I thought I might be...though my OG was a little lower (which I knew, but I was trying to hit an ABV of 6% and was thinking I would get an FG of 1.014 or so).

I took a sample out this afternoon and will let it sit out for a while before I take another gravity reading.

The yeast I used was a starter built up from a new vial.

Well...I took another sample, left it out all day, used a whisk to degas it...and the gravity still reads 1.024. It very well may be done, but it just makes me nervous to bottle it with this uncertainty. I am going to be brewing an altbier soon, so I think I will pitch some of the yeast starter for that beer (wlp036) into this stout and see if anything happens. If it still remains at 1.024 then I will feel more confident in calling it done.

The only other thing ill add would be the accuracy of your thermometer when you mashed as a coupe degrees higher could be a contributing factor as well

duboman said:

The only other thing ill add would be the accuracy of your thermometer when you mashed as a coupe degrees higher could be a contributing factor as well

Click to expand...

I had wondered about this as well. Thermometer paranoia is why I bought a Thermapen.

Rick

duboman said:

The only other thing ill add would be the accuracy of your thermometer when you mashed as a coupe degrees higher could be a contributing factor as well

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I hear ya, but, I am sufficiently confident in my thermometer (it reads 211.5°F in boiling water). And if I remember the brewday correctly. I may have mashed in lower than I wanted to...though I also have a recollection of then adding some boiling water to up the temp...now where did I put my brewday notes? Did I take any brewday notes?

Ok...so here's what I did...I racked a German Pils into secondary on Friday and pitched some of the yeast slurry (wlp833) into a pint of starter wort. On Saturday morning I pitched this starter into the potentially stalled stout. I did see some airlock activity on Sunday...but it may also just have been some off-gassing from the warming house. I'll take a gravity reading tonight or tomorrow and see if there's been any change. If not, I will consider it done and bottle. If the gravity has dropped I'll let it go a few more days and see where it ends up.

I've had similar problems with beers stalling a bit around 1.020 that should finish 4 or 5 points lower. My best success has been rousing the yeast and warming to "high" temp for the ale yeast strain you're working with. Looks liek WWLP001 upper end is 73F, maybe try swirling up the yeast well and bringing it up to 72/73F for a couple days to see if some of that extra sugar will get eaten up?

FourSeasonAngler said:

I've had similar problems with beers stalling a bit around 1.020 that should finish 4 or 5 points lower. My best success has been rousing the yeast and warming to "high" temp for the ale yeast strain you're working with. Looks liek WWLP001 upper end is 73F, maybe try swirling up the yeast well and bringing it up to 72/73F for a couple days to see if some of that extra sugar will get eaten up?

Click to expand...

Thanks...but already tried that to no avail. Pitching the pint of lager yeast is my last attempt. If the gravity does't drop, I will be confident it is done and assume it was the combination of roasted and crystal mats and mash temp. Again, I am not overly worried...just trying to troubleshoot an unexpected outcome.

Sometimes I save a little wort (just enough to fill a hydrometer tube) and add it to the dregs of my starter. I'll let that ferment on the counter. Then I have some idea of how low I can expect the beer to go. I figure at the higher temp, with me swirling now and again, it will ferment out as far as its going to.

Just an idea you might try next time you make that recipe.

mjohnson said:

Sometimes I save a little wort (just enough to fill a hydrometer tube) and add it to the dregs of my starter. I'll let that ferment on the counter. Then I have some idea of how low I can expect the beer to go. I figure at the higher temp, with me swirling now and again, it will ferment out as far as its going to.

Just an idea you might try next time you make that recipe.

Click to expand...

That's called a 'satellite' ferment. I do something similar. After I pitch I fill my hydrometer tube for my OG and just let it sit out. It helps me with my temperature strategy for the main ferment. I start all my ales at a low temperature and then finish high.

Just to close this thread out...I finally got around to bottling this sucker. FG was 1.022. Given the amount of time, the rousing, the increased temperature, and the pitch of active lager yeast, I am confident that 1.022 was where it was supposed to finish. This actually makes sense when I look back at the original recipe I got from the Snake River brewer. The recipe seemed to have too high an OG and too much grain for a 6% ABV beer, so I adjusted down assuming it was going to finish at 1.015 or so...never really thinking that it wouldn't. Well, scaling back the recipe and finishing at 1.022 leaves me at 5.3%. If I had left it alone and started where he told me to I would be right at 6%! It just never occurred to me to ask what their finishing gravity was! Lesson learned I guess. This beer is still going to be a great beer - I'm drinking a chilled, uncarbed sample right now and I'm very happy with how it is tasting.