Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

K brewing a version of this today.

8 oz 60l crystal
Steeped in 1 gal h2o
3 # amber dme (2/3 up front 1/3 late addition)
.5 oz mt rainier hops 6.1 alpha 30 mins (cheapest the lbhs had at $1.25/oz)
Pinch of Irish moss out of habit
4 gal Safeway apple juice
.5 oz mt rainier dry hop (to make up for extra dme and crappy juice)
Pectic enzyme (I'm not going to cool the wort so hopefully this prevents haze)
Nottingham yeast 1 pkg

I know it deviates from op's recipe but hopefully it still turns out good. When I make cider with this juice it winds up around 5% abv so I'm guessing it will end up around 7%. Don't have beer smith so I didn't crouch numbers, but my redneck instincts tell me that the extra malt and dry hop will leave it somewhat balanced still.
Cheers.
Ps thanks Brandon for giving me another excuse to make apple beverage. I'm getting antsy to try my spiced cyser 1 gal experiment batch thats about a month in primary and this provides a perfect distraction that will likely be drinkable way sooner.

Should be good. I did something similar to this, including the nottingham, only I added dark cherry extract and it's smelling fantastic. I haven't exactly tasted it, it's been aging in secondary for only a month, but nottingham will probably make an awesome cider/graff.

Yeah notty is my go to cider yeast (and ale yeast as of late due to my house being in to mid to low 50s for the last several months, had to pitch it in a heffe because the danstar Munich was too sleepy to make bubbles) my "house cider" is the cheapest juice I can find with notty. pretty smooth but a tad tart so I add about 2 oz fresh juice to a pint. Looking forward to not having to back sweeten every single glass. Yay for graff.

Went to the LHBS to get ingredients for this today, doing to brew things up tomorrow. :rockin: Went with:

US-05
.5 lbs caramel 120
1 lb Munton's light DME
1 lb Munton's amber DME
0.5 oz Cascade 6.2% AA
1.0 oz Torrified wheat (need to find a use for the other 15 oz. since they only sell by the pound)
4 gallons apple juice (2 Mott's, 2 Whitehouse)
Yeast nutrient (just figured I should be safe and add some)

Can't wait to try this after all the rave reviews. I'll post back with results in due time.

after 3 batches I don't have it nailed down but here are some observations:

apple juice/cider varies wildly: quality in/quality out.
like a wine it may benefit from acid adjustment.
Malto-dextrin for some body.

if you want to get apple taste/nose:
1-1.5 cans of A.J.Concentrate to prime instead of sugar

I like this stuff, my better batch was the first with high grade unfiltered/AJ/Cider w/pectic enzyme.
the cheap aj batch was the worst.

for my next batches I intend to slow down the fermentation with cool temps
so as not to blow off all the apple aroma and try Red Star Cote des Blancs instead of the English ale yeast.

Good Luck!
RJ

I brewed the original recipe about 5 weeks ago using Costco apple juice. It sat in primary for 4 weeks before I bottled. It has been bottle conditioning for just 1 week, but I used one to cook some pulled pork this past weekend. I had to taste it :cross: and it has nice apple aroma and flavor and it is crystal clear, but it is tart.

Does this sweeten up at all as I let in condition? The way it is now, I don't like it, too tart.

@rjd .... I've made cider with Cote du Blanc yeast and it finished off very dry due to the high attenuation (I think) of a wine yeast. .998 if I remember correctly. It was not apple-ly at all and drank more like a wine. Oh.....and be ready for atomic Rhino Farts from outer space!

I'm curious to see how it would turn out with the added (un)fermentables from the Graff recipe.

After posting here and reading through the thread some....I've decided to brew batch #3. Some friends who are more schooled than me in brewing suggested I try a darker grain and some darker malt for more complexity and body.

Here is my Recipe:
- 12 oz 120l Crystal Grain
- 1.5oz Torrified Wheat
- Steeped in 1.25 gal water
- 1lb Dark DME
- 1lb Amber DME
- .5 oz Cascade pellet hops, 3.2% alpha @30 mins
- 4 gallons Mott's Apple Juice
- US-05 yeast, pitched dry over cooled wort @67 degrees

Gravity was 1.060, right on the money. Initial color is much darker than my previous two batches, it looks more like beer.

- I plan to prime with one container of frozen, thawed apple juice concentrate to try and get some apple flavor back in.

Update:

I bottled my first batch of this at the end of July 2012. It'd been a couple of months since I'd had one, so I decided to crack a bomber open yesterday. IMHO, it's tasting the best it's ever tasted right now. I still have 6-bombers and 2-12-oz. bottles left. It has completely cleared up, and the carbonation is holding up well.

Okay, I keep a house cider on tap at all times and the best advise I can give (if you keg) is use the standard recipe and then vary the final product by adding your favorite fruit flavor. I usually do this by adding a gallon of pomagranite/cherry/blueberry or your fav.....right at kegging. This means using about a gallon less apple juice up front to make about 4 gallons cider, so the additional juice at kegging is strictly for backsweetening/flavor. Usually ends up about 6%Abv and very drinkable! This recipe is almost bullet proof, turns out however you adjust. Current batch is a Pom/Blueberry mix by Tropicana....Awesome!

Looking forward to bottling my Graff this weekend!

Update on the 50/50 Graf

Buddy took a gravity and it's at 1.006 and to quote him it tasted like vomit!

I told him it needs to sit longer ... We'll rack it in another 2 weeks and let it sit another month before bottling!

Fingers crossed

renderman said:

Update on the 50/50 Graf

Buddy took a gravity and it's at 1.006 and to quote him it tasted like vomit!

I told him it needs to sit longer ... We'll rack it in another 2 weeks and let it sit another month before bottling!

Fingers crossed

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I really wanted to like this stuff but I agree with your buddy. I'm hoping it improves with time...but for now it's just taking up space in one of my kegs

BBQB said:

I really wanted to like this stuff but I agree with your buddy. I'm hoping it improves with time...but for now it's just taking up space in one of my kegs

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+1 for bottling! =]

So after checking out this thread I came up with my own all-grain recipe and brewed it up today:

I do 3 GAL batches and I used:

.3 lbs Crystal 120L
.6 oz flaked barley (instead of wheat, for head retention - its what I had lying around)
2.4 GAL Motts Apple Juice
.6 Gal water (for wort)
.3 oz EK Goldings (whole hops)
3 Lbs. Maris Otter Pale Malt

rehydrated and pitched US-05 somewhere around 60F

Measured OG was 1.062.

Here's to hoping this turns out well!

Anyone have any idea how much AJ concentrate to use at bottling time for a 3 GAL batch to help give it more sweetness?

Will let everyone know how it turns out!

Great, fun recipe. I scaled it down to just 1 gallon and cracked the first bottle after 3 weeks conditioning.
Yuck!
Lol! It's way too bitter for a cider and too sour for a beer (and I like sour beers!) so here's hoping it gets better with age. At least I only have 4 more bombers to store, so no big waste.

Morning all!
Anybody else have the flavor cycle, while in a keg, of too young then just right then 'oh god get it out of my mouth'?
I'm curious because I'm worried this is normal, seeing some of the more recent posts talking about bitter, sour, and vomitous.
Mine has been in the keg about a month now and the transition has been interesting. Anytime I drink it now seems to be more in the name of science than actual enjoyment.
Thanks for any feedback. Cheers!

My batch has been bottled for eight days now and is starting to taste more like a beer/cider. It is still pretty bad but has improved remarkably in a little more than a week. I followed the recipe with Kirkland aj.

Bottled my first batch of this February 23rd, 8 gallons using the OP recipe and Kirkland AJ with some Cascades hops. Just tried my first bottle on Friday, and I think it's good! Definitely good enough to keep around and age even if my friends don't like it.

I was excited to brew some Graff for my next endeavor but these last few reviews have been quite discouraging... I had thought that this was do-able in just a few weeks to a month but it seems like it may take months (like Apfelwein) for the taste to turn out the way it should... is this the case?

Dust said:

I was excited to brew some Graff for my next endeavor but these last few reviews have been quite discouraging... I had thought that this was do-able in just a few weeks to a month but it seems like it may take months (like Apfelwein) for the taste to turn out the way it should... is this the case?

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Like I said, mine is great to me after only a couple of weeks in the bottle. It's going to be a personal preference thing in any case. Try it now, and if you do want to let it age you'll be glad you started it now.

You can make decent cider with the cheap stuff from the walmart shelves, but Graff is not on that list, unfortunately. It ends up exceedingly tart.

Has anyone done a Gluten-free version of Graff?

Dust said:

I was excited to brew some Graff for my next endeavor but these last few reviews have been quite discouraging... I had thought that this was do-able in just a few weeks to a month but it seems like it may take months (like Apfelwein) for the taste to turn out the way it should... is this the case?

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Don't be discouraged. Just use decent quality apple juice, and it should be drinkable relatively quickly. My first batch was bottled 13 days after I made it, and I cracked the first bottle 2-3 weeks (forgot to record the exact date) after I bottled. It tasted MUCH better than any cider of a similar age I've tried.

The thing is it tastes even better if you can let it sit for 6 months or more. But if you just want something you can drink quickly, this should still fit the bill.

LeverTime said:

Don't be discouraged. Just use decent quality apple juice, and it should be drinkable relatively quickly. My first batch was bottled 13 days after I made it, and I cracked the first bottle 2-3 weeks (forgot to record the exact date) after I bottled. It tasted MUCH better than any cider of a similar age I've tried.

The thing is it tastes even better if you can let it sit for 6 months or more. But if you just want something you can drink quickly, this should still fit the bill.

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Oh I see, well what would be a good quality apple juice to use?

Update:


Well it has been almost six weeks in the bottle and the flavor profile has changed. The aroma has changed as well. The wife hates it but I think it will come around in a few more weeks. The tartness has subsided and the apple flavor is starting to come through. If I brew this again, I will defintely backsweeten and prime with AJ concentrate so it will appeal to the wife, but, I will probably try a traditional cider for my next cider attempt. I will provide more feedback as this stuff ages.

I'd say in most cases the tartness comes from using juice with added vitamin C (ascorbic acid).

Dust said:

Oh I see, well what would be a good quality apple juice to use?

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I used organic apple juice from the USA and from New Zealand that I found at BJs (local discount club store, like Sams Club or Costco). Most of the cheap stuff (Walmart, Target, generic store brands) are from China. It's hard to read on most of the bottles, but if you look carefully it should be stamped with the country of origin. I believe I spent around $5 / gallon.

I don't get it. I make this with the cheap stuff.
Petty much every body loves it. I start serving about 2-3 weeks after kegging.
I follow the recipe as it is written, and it's one of my standards here at the house.

I use the cheap juice also. The recipes states to use crystal 120 in place of 60 if you use cheap juice.

I wanted to come back to post some "on the record" notes for anybody who's interested. I brewed this right around the beginning of February, bottled it 2/23/13 (25 days ago). I followed the original recipe scaled up for a 7.5 gallon batch or so. I used C60, Kirkland AJ, white wheat in place of torrified, and 0.5oz Cascade hops @ 9.1% AA. I fermented at a constant 67F, it finished at 1.008 (down from 1.064), and I carbed with 6oz of sucrose for 2.5 vols CO2. By the numbers, this came out to 7.4% ABV.

I REALLY like this recipe the way it came out for me. Even after the bare-minimum bottle aging time of 2 weeks I found it tart, apple-y, and flavorful. It certainly does NOT taste harsh or alcoholic (to me), though it's definitely got some kick after I've slammed a bomber of it. I'm a fan of tartness, so what some may call harsh or green, I call tasty. I'd almost call it a loss if this gets smoother with age, but I'm sure it will only get better. The only thing I would change is the carbonation level as it's quite foamy even with a sloooooow pour, BUT I also haven't even bothered refrigerating any of these to let them "settle." I've just been pulling them out of the laundry room. I will throw one in the fridge today and let it sit for a while to see how it goes.

All in all, if you're afraid of this taking too long to age out, I say put a batch together NOW, try it when it's carbed, and THEN see if it needs more time. If you think it does, well, you're already 2 weeks into that time by the time you make that decision. Never put off until tomorrow what you could brew today.

Second batch for me. I used 1# of C60 let it sit for 6 weeks. Kegged it 3 days ago ..."forced carbed"....it is less tart than my first batch of 0.5 # C60....I love this stuf

I might through a batch on a Saison yeast cake this weekend. I'll rack it to a secondary and store it til summer. Time should help.

anyone ever try this with some Hibiscus in it? i think the tartness of it would go well. was thinking either adding the dried rose pedals at flameout, or making a tea and putting it in after fermentation is done, or using the dried rose pedals as a dry hop. i think either way itll have a pretty color and awesome aroma.

I brewed the below recipe on February 10th.

- 4 gal Costco Kirkland Apple Juice
- 2 lb Amber DME
- 7 oz Crystal 60
- 3 oz Crystal 85
- 2 oz White Wheat Malt
- 4 oz Lactose
- 4 oz Malto-Dextrine

- .5 oz Willamette

- Nottingham

- OG 1.063 FG 1.008

I just had my first glass of this from the keg and it is incredible. The tartness from the apple juice compliments the residual sweetness from the lactose and the mouthfeel of the malto-dextrine. I can't wait to taste this in a couple of months.

finally got around to making this, following the OP recipe with Safale S-04. I noob'd out and must have not fully dissolved the LME, and it charred on the bottom of the pot. I syphoned off the liquid and left the burnt **** behind, didn't taste too bad pre-pitch

I made one with...

4# 2-row munich
.5# crystal 120
2 oz torrified wheat
2lbs brown sugar (10 min)
.5oz sterling (30 min)

2gallons mashed at 148 for 90min (by accident-forgot about headspace in MLT)

added 2 FCAJ into cooling wort

4 gallons cheap AJ

s-05 yeast

og 1.070
fg 1.006

tasted incredible! I had to stop myself from drinking it out of the primary!
(recommend blowoff)
can't wait until it is carbed!

Very little tartness it tastes like malty apples. - if u want something with a quick turnaround..try this

Now, just because my first experimental version of this has not turned out the way I hoped, doesn't mean I'm not going to try it again! Any number of things in my 1 gallon batch could have been off. I do love the thought of a malty, lightly hopped, cider. Being a fan of sours and ciders, I know I'll do this again soon and see if I can get it right!

Well I have some initial tasting notes. I recently bottled a batch using plain ole priming sugar. I cracked my first bottle last night and am enjoying a glass as I type this. My first thoughts are to increase the Crystal 60 an additional 1/2lb. I'm also thinking the addition of 1/2lb chocolate malts would really make this brew shine. My logic behind this is there is an edginess to this that needs time to mellow out. With the added crystal 60 or chocolate malts I think this will dull the sharpness of the alcohol. I will update in a month to see how much this brew mellows out. In the mean time. A quick snap of my delectable brew.

Is there an official AG version of this? I'm sick of paying for DME/LME and i just participated in a grain bulk buy so......