Benefits of Multi-Step Mashing

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the_bird

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Dude's post the other day about setting up a direct-fired mash tun got me thinking...

What *are* the benefits of multi-step mashing? I know it's not an absolute necessity with the modification levels of malt these days, but are there still benefits? Do people who have done multi-step mashing find that they have a better end product? What do you get out of it?

Discuss....
 
Well Palmer says that any malt bill can benefit from a rest at 104F. States it "...improves the liquefication of the mash..." whatever that means....Resting multiple times also gives you more control over the fermentability of the wort. (but probably not as much as it used to back in the day with not so modified malt). You can go for more alcohol, drier and "crisper", or less alcohol and sweeter. Or any combination depending on where you want to do your rests.
In the minimal expierence I've had with multi-rests I've found that they increase the length of my brewday and can be a PITA. But it also adds to the fun of brewing. I'm going to start multi-rest mashing on all my recipes with my new system and see if efficiency/quality goes up....
 
I multi-stepped with a pilsner that I have lagering right now due to concerns about haze and clarity of the pilsner malt. I've read, and heard (kai i think?) that skipping a protien rest with this type of malt/beer will result in a beer that either refuses to clear or takes months to do so. I have shied (I just say here for 45 sends re-typing that to try to figure out how to spell it. shyed? shide? shy'd?) fuxing A. screw it) away from multi stepping some other Ag bathces recently, tho, because I am dealing with a 5 gal mash tun and all those infusions fill me up quick (should have listened to all those warnings about going with a 10 gal!!!!!).
 
I have a ten gal and have always wanted to protein rest at 104* no matter which beer category brewed, but haven't because I am worried about space and time. My results of not using the P. rest don't show any negatives, but then again I never performed one.

Is there a clear benefit to this? I mean my brew is awesome, as most HBers can contest about theirs.

Interesting topic. Reading about step mashing peeks interest because it seems that it can bring you back historically to our brothers who brewed in past times (Germania).

- WW
 
an acid rest for a hefe will bring out more of the clove Ive read, but Ive never done that or a protein rest for anything myself. Extraction may go up a bit from a protein rest but the malts are already well modified to where you can stick with a single infusion and your beer will turn out just fine.

Not saying it couldn't be a bit better with one, but I don't have the capabilities to do one either. Maybe someday
 
Yeah I agree. I have not missed anything from not doing a P rest - at least I don't think I have.

Does 6 RPM need this?. I have not used 6 RPM yet and would like to try it. What exactly is it used for again?

- WW
 
I have been doing a simple steep mash for the past couple years, 10-30min at 130ºF and 145-155ºF until the starch test is negative. I notice I have some control of the fermentable sugar content of the wort. But I think it is more of a fine tuning than an adjustment. I have not ventured into more elaborate step mashing, but think I will try in the future, if for nothing else but to spend more time drinking a beer while I brew.

Also I would also consider the beer you are brewing and it's requirements, like has been mentioned on this thread there are different styles of beer that may benefit from a multi-step mash, where others are fine with out it.
 
Brewsmith said:
Better efficiency.

Exactly.

A protein rest (122°) is essential in a wheat beer (especially with a large amount of wheat) because it is more difficult to extract the sugars from wheat without it. I'll never do a wheat beer of any kind without a short protein rest.
 
That's good information to know; I was thinking about maybe doing a wheat in the not-too-distant future, but I didn't know that. So if you do a wheat now, you do your steps by starting with a fairly stiff mash at the low rest temp, then adding more hot water to reach your next rest step?
 
This is a very interesting thread. I feel like I don't have a very solid grasp on the pros and cons for step vs single infusion mashing.

Are there downsides to step mashing, other than the extra time and hassle?

I recently bought some Briess undermodified pilsner to use in a couple Belgians. Briess says that it is sufficiently modified to use a single-infusion mash. (In fact, they claim that many microbrewers do so). I'd be happy to do a step mash for these beers, but I'd like to have a firmer grasp of why I would or wouldn't. What are the potential downsides of not doing it (Starch? Lower efficiency?) What are the potential downsides of step mashing?
 
my 2 cents

for me single infusion turns out great beers for me. Am I worried about the better efficiency? No, Ill be getting a mill soon enough which will bring me to the upper 70s which is fine by me

But I can hit my target temp on the nose every time with a single infusion. Plus with a one time addition of strike water I keep the mash thickness exactly where it needs to be. One less thing I need to worry about or go wrong on brew day.

Now a RIMS or HERMS system is a completely different story for me. I'd love to have me one of them setup on my rig
 
For the record, I've got a few spreadsheets that will calc out hot water infusions for step mashing on my home computer. I could email them along you you are interested. Multi-step, IMHO, is a must-do with wheats, pils.......efficiency with both and clarity with the pils. For lots of other beers, I usually just go single step.
 
I've never looked to closely into it, but BeerSmith has those calcs too, doesn't it?

Maybe I'll do a wheat this weekend and play around with multi-step mashing, if I make it to the HBS...
 
Fiery Sword said:
For the record, I've got a few spreadsheets that will calc out hot water infusions for step mashing on my home computer. I could email them along you you are interested. Multi-step, IMHO, is a must-do with wheats, pils.......efficiency with both and clarity with the pils. For lots of other beers, I usually just go single step.

OK--now we're getting somewhere.

So what temp rest promotes clarity with the pils? Protein rest around 122° F?
 
cweston said:
So what temp rest promotes clarity with the pils? Protein rest around 122° F?
For the pils I did, the mash schedule was as such:

Dough-in @ 104F
Protien rest @ 127F (20-25 min.)
Mash @ 151 (60 min.)
Mashout @167

It's still lagering, though. Haven't tasted it yet. :(
 
Like the others already said, don't bother with multi step rets (except maybe the mash-out) with americal or english 2-row. You may end up converting to many of the medium chained proteins necessary for body and head retention.

But the last time I tried a single infusion with Weyermann Pilsner malt the beer just didn't want to clear up. I'm not sure if it was because of the missing protein rest or not, but I have become very fond of this mash schedule for German malts:

10-20 min at 130 *F
boiling water infusion to 150-152 *F
rest there for 45 min and then pull a thin decoction for mash-out after 60min saccrification rest.

The protein rest is doughed in with 1-1.25 qts/lb and I also use it to check and correct the pH of the mash.
The saccrification rest is a pretty thin mash (1.5 - 2.0 qt/lb) which is typical for German beers. It also allows me to hit the temp dead on b/c I add water until I hit the temp. The thin mash makes mixing during this phase easy.
The decoction for mash-out is necessary because I have only a 5gal cooler and cannot mash-out by infusion.

Once in a while, especially for seasonal beers, I may do a more complicated decoction mash. I'm not sure if it really makes a difference and I will have to do some more experiments regarding this. Lately I made sure that the mash doesn't sit at protein rest temp for to long becase I fear that even the German malts are modified to well for long protein rests.

Kai
 
wilsonwj said:
I have a ten gal and have always wanted to protein rest at 104* no matter which beer category brewed, but haven't because I am worried about space and time. My results of not using the P. rest don't show any negatives, but then again I never performed one.

Not meaning to split hairs, but 104° is in the acid rest range, not a protein rest. Just wanted to clear up any future confusion.


Fiery Sword said:
For the record, I've got a few spreadsheets that will calc out hot water infusions for step mashing on my home computer. I could email them along you you are interested. Multi-step, IMHO, is a must-do with wheats, pils.......efficiency with both and clarity with the pils. For lots of other beers, I usually just go single step.

Interested. korrea4 at yahoo dot com.

Kaiser said:
Once in a while, especially for seasonal beers, I may do a more complicated decoction mash. I'm not sure if it really makes a difference and I will have to do some more experiments regarding this. Lately I made sure that the mash doesn't sit at protein rest temp for to long becase I fear that even the German malts are modified to well for long protein rests.

Kai

I'd love to see a comparison between a double or triple decoction against just adding some melanoidin malt.
 
Okay so I did some calculations and set up a mashing schedule for my brew this weekend.

Temperture Control Mash
Total Grain Bill 12.52
1º-Temp 107
2º-Temp 130
3º-Temp 150
1º Liters of water : 11.9 AT 119.52
2º Liters of water : 7.2 AT 200.00
3º Liters of water : 6.3 AT 200
Sparge: 23.78
Add/remove to/from boil: -1.37

after reading this thread I thought Id try to incorporate the 107º protein rest?
 
cweston said:
OK--now we're getting somewhere.

So what temp rest promotes clarity with the pils? Protein rest around 122° F?

well just for the record......

you really dont need a protein rest for clarity with todays pils. Every recipe I have that uses pils comes out crystal clear (actually it looks like miller lite) and I never do a protein rest. I do alot of blonde and cream ales which are very low SRM beers. They always comes out looking great
 
Chimone said:
you really dont need a protein rest for clarity with todays pils. Every recipe I have that uses pils comes out crystal clear (actually it looks like miller lite) and I never do a protein rest. I do alot of blonde and cream ales which are very low SRM beers. They always comes out looking great

What brand and type of malt are you using?

Kai
 
After reading this thread it sounds like the only beers gaining anything from a step mash are wheats and brew with under modified malts.

So if I am brewing an IPA, there would be no benefit to step mashing correct...? I know I probably wouldn't need a protein rest using 2-row but what about rests at other temps. Any experience or advice appreciated. Thanks.
 
Reidman said:
After reading this thread it sounds like the only beers gaining anything from a step mash are wheats and brew with under modified malts.

So if I am brewing an IPA, there would be no benefit to step mashing correct...? I know I probably wouldn't need a protein rest using 2-row but what about rests at other temps. Any experience or advice appreciated. Thanks.

Correct. No rests are needed for an IPA unless you are using some funky under-modified malts stolen from Kai's house. ;)
 
Reidman said:
After reading this thread it sounds like the only beers gaining anything from a step mash are wheats and brew with under modified malts.

That's the long and short of it.

A few other exceptions:

-According to Palmer, you can eeke a few more efficiency points out of any brew by doing a dough-in at 104F for 20 minutes (questionable if it's worth it)

-Some exotic grains (including rye) tend to create gooey mashes if used in excess of 20-25%: there are rests that can help with that.
 
OK. I am going to open a bleach like conversation. I like to do steps and decoctions from time to time, but know it is more for my enjoyment then the betterment of the beer. Time has shown that. As has been said, with the American and British 2-row that we get it is not really needed. I won't argue that there are times when a rest will help, but I think lots of this is misplaced energy in search of better beer. Why go to all the trouble of steps and decoctions and then not:

-force chill
-oxygenate
-use a very strong culture of fresh, liquid yeast

Most of the flaws I taste in HB come in fermentation not wort production.

Of course, I will still step from time to time, decoct now and then and love talking about it on HBT.
 

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