Corn sugar or DME for bottling?

Im on my 7th batch of beer and I've been bottling every one. I've had some trouble with some off flavors after bottling on every batch. My beer tastes absolutely awesome after fermentation has ended, right when I go to bottle, so I know all my steps before bottling are spot on. I've also tweaked my brewing techniques just for the hell of it but still come out with the same final result. The flavor is hard to describe but ill give it a shot. It's an almost metallic taste I get right on the tongue but it doesn't linger. I almost want to attribute it to the flavor of over-carbination or CO2 (if thats even a flavor). The thing is, my beer hasn't been over-carbinated, its not "champangy" or even soda like in carbonation.

I first thought it was just that I had green beer, but I've let my last batch of altbeir age for 3 months and though the flavor is more subtle but still present.

I think I've finally had my epiphany but I wanted to bounce my idea off of all you great beer geeks. When bottling ive always used corn sugar. I have the feeling it's the culprit. Could using corn sugar over some good ol' DME cause some funny flavors in my beer? How much could I benefit from switching to DME? I'll just give it a shot on my next batch but I wanted to know if any of you have run into similar problems.

I have always used corn sugar without any problems. Where is your corn sugar from?

Highly doubt it's the corn sugar. Describe some of your process & recipes. Chlorine/chloramine in the water? Old LME? Are you drinking straight from the bottle (if so, may be rust from the bottle caps).

I doubt it too, the point of using most sugars, table and corn especially, is that they ferment out completely, leaving no flavors behind. You'd be more apt getting a flavor remaining from using dme since it's not 100 percent fermentable, especially the darker extracts.

I get my corn sugar from my local beer store.

I'm not drinking straight from the bottle and I've tried using different types of water (tap, purified, distilled). Like is said the flavor isn't present until after ive bottled. Ive tried sanitizing bottles in the dishwasher on the "sanitize" cycle with no soap, and I've used bottle rinsers with sanitizer. All I do is rack to my sanitized bottling bucket fill with my sanitized wand after boiling a couple cups water for 15 mins with corn sugar (of course cool, add to beer, and stir gently with sanitized spoon), cap with sanitized caps, and boom! I get a funky flavor.

Yeah, your bottling process sounds fine. My bet is something in your brewing process - you mentioned it tastes fine pre-bottling, but sometimes green beer can mask other off flavors.

Sounds like you've ruled out water being the culprit. How about fermentation temps? Or ingredients? Old LME doesn't taste too good.

One of my first ever batches was a store kit with LME, who knows how long it had been on the shelf. And I fermented around mid-70's probably because I didn't know any better; tasted great when I took all my samples and pre-bottling, but it was really undrinkable once carbed & conditioned. Googled: How to cook with beer

TyTanium said:

Googled: How to cook with beer

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If you won't drink with it, then why would you add that bad flavor to your food? And if it doesn't add any flavor, why add it in the first place?

TokyoRoad said:

If you won't drink with it, then why would you add that bad flavor to your food? And if it doesn't add any flavor, why add it in the first place?

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...uh, because it tastes awesome. I didn't say it doesn't add any flavor. It adds a ton of flavor, most notably "beer" flavor. The off-flavors are subtle and make it unpleasant to drink, but it still tastes mostly like beer. When added to food, the food masks the subtle off-flavors and just adds a "beerish" taste, which I happen to love.

Try it and you won't be confused. Never cooked with BMC before, huh?

flemish beef stew. brown some cubes of beef in hot oil, add carrots onions thyme and bay leaf, fry off a bit, spoonful of flour, cook a minute, bottle of not great dark beer and a couple spoons of cider vinegar to taste, salt and pepper. cover and cook 2 hours on low

TyTanium said:

...uh, because it tastes awesome. I didn't say it doesn't add any flavor. It adds a ton of flavor, most notably "beer" flavor. The off-flavors are subtle and make it unpleasant to drink, but it still tastes mostly like beer. When added to food, the food masks the subtle off-flavors and just adds a "beerish" taste, which I happen to love.

Try it and you won't be confused. Never cooked with BMC before, huh?

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TyTanium said:

when I took all my samples and pre-bottling, but it was really undrinkable

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I cook often with beer, wine, and liquor, cooking with BMC seems a waste as you might as well just add water. The point of cooking with any of the above liquids is to add desirable flavors not, as you put it, undrinkable flavors.
Remind me to never eat your cooking.

TokyoRoad said:

I cook often with beer, wine, and liquor, cooking with BMC seems a waste as you might as well just add water. The point of cooking with any of the above liquids is to add desirable flavors not, as you put it, undrinkable flavors.
Remind me to never eat your cooking.

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Tryin' to get me riled up, huh? Don't be a tool. This is totally untrue. Try making beer bread; one with BMC and one with water; tell me which is better.

Sure, on the margin, better to cook with good beer than bad beer. But no reason to pour a batch down the sink if it'll make a perfectly good beer brat / beer bread / cacciatore / pan sauce / marinade.

TyTanium said:

Sounds like you've ruled out water being the culprit. How about fermentation temps? Or ingredients? Old LME doesn't taste too good.
)

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I have a mini fridge with a temp controller. I've always followed White Labs instructions when fermenting with their yeast and the temps they ferment at. I've made beers with starters and without. I've made extract and all-grain beers yet the flavor still persists.

I just cant seem to find the problem. I guess I'll just take a bottle down to my brewing shop and ask them to taste it so I can at least have someone else taste this funk.

Mind you, I have a 3 gallon keg that I've put the last few batches in, and out of that they have been my best beers, but I bottle the last 2 gallons and poof...... theres the ****ty flavor again.

And as for cooking with beer, ya..... bomb!

TyTanium said:

Sure, on the margin, better to cook with good beer than bad beer. But no reason to pour a batch down the sink if it'll make a perfectly good beer brat / beer bread / cacciatore / pan sauce / marinade.

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Beer batter....it's the best use of BMC that I know of.

Then all that other stuff you mentioned.

E-Mursed said:

Beer batter....it's the best use of BMC that I know of.

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YES. Totally agree with you there.

Fermentalist...seems like you've pretty well isolated it to your bottles. How about rusty bottle caps? Do you sanitize a whole bunch then put the unused caps back in the bag for next time? I've had rusty ones before from doing that. And I've noticed a metallic taste on the rim of the bottle, especially when drinking from the bottle. Doesn't persist when I pour it into a glass though.

And what's your sanitizer?

Nope no rusty caps here. I dont sanitize more than i need. if i do on accident i always make sure to dry them before storage. I would be more worried about mold than rust in that case.

And I dont drink from my bottles I usually poor to a glass.

I use Starsan. but i normally use 1/2 oz per 2 1/2 gallon to not waste water.

about 45% of my bottles I've just kept from left over Sierra Nevada Pale ale cases i've bought. the rest I've purchased empty from my brew store with a few misc. other bottles ive kept. I just assume others do the same and just make sure to clean and sanitize before bottling homebrew.

Well shoot, dude, your process is nearly identical to mine and seems totally correct. I've got nothin' other than sympathy at this point. Sorry I can't help more.

try using a different bottling bucket and bottle filler. Maybe even new bottles. Sometimes, depending how you clean the empties, you can get a unnoticeable layer or coating of the glue from the label all over the bottle and it can give off flavors... learned that from my HBC. Could be whats happening, just a thought.

thanks for all the ideas anyway guys. always appreciated

i found this on http://kotmf.com/articles/flavor.pdf and copied and pasted it for you, hope it helps

FLAVORS IN BEER : METALLIC

CHARACTERISTICS: A harsh, metallic taste noted both on the tip of the tongue and the roof of the mouth. Can be felt throughout the tongue and mouth in large concentrations. Not desired in beer. Also described as tinny or bloodlike.
CHEMISTRY: The ferrous ion (iron) and some organic compounds formed by hydrolysis of cereal lipids in grain, and oxidization of free fatty acids. HIGH RATE FROM PROCESS: Iron or mild steel in contact with beer; freshly-scrubbed stainless steel that has not been allowed to oxidize (passivation); improper filtering material; high iron content in water; poorly processed grain.
REDUCTION: Use of stainless steel; low-iron water; use of citric acid to re-oxidize stainless that has been abrasively cleaned; use of filtering materials that are acid- washed to remove iron; use of fresh, high-quality grain malt.