Heady Topper- Can you clone it?

CornyKegs 728
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nsap said:
Sorry to interrupt what looks like a pretty heated bittering debate but I just picked up some HT today and started a culture.

Although I don't know exactly when it will be ready for shipping out (I just started the culture today) I'd like to do what I can to contribute to the effort so if anyone else needs conan let me know.

Also, as another vegan and brewer I'll take any excuse to go to the montepelier co-op.

Oh the joys of living in Vermont.
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Just went to the co-op yesterday and got the last two 4 packs! :) great store!

Law student, eh?
 
Just wanna point something out about this here "bittering" addition thing, the back and forth over it is making me dizzy.... the recipe we're working on has a FWH addition, i.e. added to the first runnings. Sure, it provides bitterness, but FWH also lends some flavor and maybe even some aroma to the beer. For this recipe, I surely think that the "bittering" addition would matter. Also, FWIW, we have good reason to believe that this FWH addition is done with extract and not a hop, so that probably matters some too.
 
Great brew day yesterday. Hit all my targets and the wort tasted awesome. The peachy aroma coming off of my starter of Conan was amazing! I almost drank it instead of pitching it! This is my first 5 gallon batch using this yeast and I have it in a 6.5 gallon glass carboy, so I do have some head space. But, to those who have brewed with Conan before, did you need a blow off tube? I usually always put one on but I was having issues with it last night, so I just put on an airlock. A lot of activity this morning in there so I was curious if I should run out and get a new blow off tube or not?

Thanks,
Mike
 
LaFinDuMonde said:
Great brew day yesterday. Hit all my targets and the wort tasted awesome. The peachy aroma coming off of my starter of Conan was amazing! I almost drank it instead of pitching it! This is my first 5 gallon batch using this yeast and I have it in a 6.5 gallon glass carboy, so I do have some head space. But, to those who have brewed with Conan before, did you need a blow off tube? I usually always put one on but I was having issues with it last night, so I just put on an airlock. A lot of activity this morning in there so I was curious if I should run out and get a new blow off tube or not?

Thanks,
Mike
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Awesome! Conan's the $hit! I did my 5.25 gal batch in a 6.5 w/no issues of blowoff, but I use Fermcap-S, and I still always attach a BO tube just in case.
 
I'm thinking about using my culture of Conan and doing the Kern River Double Citra with it, get my numbers built up, and get a cake going to use for the HT clone I'm putting together.
 
Heads up for the cloners. Labelpeelers clearance right now with new Simcoe leaf 1 pound bags going for 13.99. Citra leaf and Centennial leaf also 14.99 and 11.99 respectively.

I got a gravity sample from my 1 gallon test batch with caravienne, that stuff is legit, I think it's in the real deal.
 
NordeastBrewer77 said:
Just wanna point something out about this here "bittering" addition thing, the back and forth over it is making me dizzy.... the recipe we're working on has a FWH addition, i.e. added to the first runnings. Sure, it provides bitterness, but FWH also lends some flavor and maybe even some aroma to the beer. For this recipe, I surely think that the "bittering" addition would matter. Also, FWIW, we have good reason to believe that this FWH addition is done with extract and not a hop, so that probably matters some too.
Click to expand...

FWH adds a bunch of flavor for sure!
 
theveganbrewer said:
Heads up for the cloners. Labelpeelers clearance right now with new Simcoe leaf 1 pound bags going for 13.99. Citra leaf and Centennial leaf also 14.99 and 11.99 respectively.

I got a gravity sample from my 1 gallon test batch with caravienne, that stuff is legit, I think it's in the real deal.
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I bought 2 lbs of Simcoe today, didn't see the other two at that price. Matt said he was selling them at $1 above cost.
 
Caravienne adds a nice sweetness, I always use it in my ipas actually. Carared is a good substitute with similar characteristics.
 
The caravienne adds the right sweetness but also a surprising aroma that is very similar to heady. I think when a lot of us were debating golden naked oats, this is the flavor we wanted to get. I know that's my case, adding the caravienne was just what flavor i was looking for. Removing the cascade, lowering the centennial and introducing amarillo and some more chinook got rid of the flowery/fruitiness and brought this back closer to heady. Excited to get the dry hop in soon and taste.
 
Sub'd I think its cool to watch the process of cloning a beer. I really hope you guys get this figured out and the hard work pays off!
 
i got to try heady last night. it was quite amazing, although i thought it would be more fruity, it's quite pine-y. i also didnt get the peach from the yeast, but i will try again as i have a case coming my way! woot woot!

also, we tasted hill farmstead abner and double galaxy. i think the double galaxy might be better than heady
 
How fresh was the Heady?
I had a can lurking in my fridge for a bit, and the fruitiness had all but gone away. All pine.
 
mewithstewpid said:
i got to try heady last night. it was quite amazing, although i thought it would be more fruity, it's quite pine-y. i also didnt get the peach from the yeast, but i will try again as i have a case coming my way! woot woot!

also, we tasted hill farmstead abner and double galaxy. i think the double galaxy might be better than heady
Click to expand...

Drink that Heady fresh! HT is a different beer a week or two after canning.
 
LarvalCraze said:
Drink that Heady fresh! HT is a different beer a week or two after canning.
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100% true. One point that brings the shock value of heady down. IMO

Also just want to say i was at the brewery yesterday and saw a tank at 71* actively fermenting. Row of 5 fermentors blow offs all hooked up to a smaller stainless tun with a blow off on that. Love how they catch and process the blowoff, heard he usually gets a keg from it.

ALso 2-3 cases will be making its way back with me again.
Taking some trade offers. Trying to get a high trade ratio for the cans. Between the gas and tolls this trip kills the wallet and not really making anything after packaging and shipping.


Before i left i racked my clone to the keg and i have to say the quick drop on my steep really screwed me up. Not getting all the fruit lots of earthy pine not resin/sticky and really missing out on the peach. Im going to try my zombie dust clone again with conan this time and get the temp up to 68-70
 
Saw this question in the other thread, didn't see an answer there or here. Did anybody try the recipe on p. 58 of this months BYO ?
 
Johnnyhitch1 said:
Also just want to say i was at the brewery yesterday and saw a tank at 71* actively fermenting. Row of 5 fermentors blow offs all hooked up to a smaller stainless tun with a blow off on that. Love how they catch and process the blowoff, heard he usually gets a keg from it.
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It could be that Kimmich prefers to propagate the yeast by top-cropping in that way, but I would think that the yeast would get pretty stressed in something so high in IBU/ABV.
 
Anyone try under pitching conan yet? I'm wondering if I should step it up again or under pitch right now.

There was some hypothesizing about that previously...
 
You don't top crop outta conicals...

71 F makes me think a couple things. Near the end of fermentation, many brewers tend to let the temp free rise to finish out. At this time they dry-hop for better oil extraction with the high temperature. This allows them to get more out of the hops quicker, and in turn push the beer out faster. Also, if this yeast is English in origin, he may be doing a diacetyl rest (in combo with the above).
 
I have 42 cans of Heady in my basement cellar now. Trip to VT was a success. Now to start drinking and harvesting and drinking and harvesting and drinking and drinking....
 
Petekiteworld said:
Anyone try under pitching conan yet? I'm wondering if I should step it up again or under pitch right now.

There was some hypothesizing about that previously...
Click to expand...

I underpitched at 6 million cells per mL, mashed at 154, fermented at 68, added the caravienne and amarillo and got rid of the dextrose. So a lot of things changed, but it is leaps and bounds closer to the real deal now. So far though, looks like I'm hovering around 1.016. not sure it's gonna finish.
 
John has said that the yeast changes with each generation. He says he can notice a taste difference and tell you which generation it is by his nose. He never mentioned changing fermentation temps and pitch rates based off generation, but I guess it's possible that he ferments at higher temps for some generations, lower for others. He says they get a brand new batch of yeast every 3 months.

I have gotten sulfur out of Conan that I harvested warm, around 75, and then dropped to 62 for pitching. It wasn't in the final beer, but definitely did something to the yeast.
 
heady topper ages so much quicker than any ipa...like others have mentioned in this thread, a week after canning makes a huge difference. The canning should help preserve it. Why do you think this happens?
 
njporter said:
heady topper ages so much quicker than any ipa...like others have mentioned in this thread, a week after canning makes a huge difference. The canning should help preserve it. Why do you think this happens?
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It's turbo hoppy, hops fade fast and first. In a beer like this, as soon as those late and dry hops begin to fade, it'll show in the brew. Which reminds me, gonna go pull another pint of my white grapefruit juice. :D
 
even pliny doesnt age as fast as heady....

its not normal for hops to decrease so much after 7 days. something is different here
 
I haven't worked with it but from everything I've read extract is mostly just bitter and wouldn't have the same flavor/aroma properties a late addition or dry hop would have
 
I was going to post the stuff that thaworm69 posted as well. I DOUBT they are adding extracts at canning in the bright tanks, but hell... anything is possible.
 
I really have no idea what i'm talking about here, but I did see a guy reference earlier in this or the previous thread, Alchemist using NZ hop extract in there so I thought I would throw it on the table. They say "generic" hops on the website, but I see no reason why this couldn't be made with propriety hops as well. Would also help with trub loss ect... I feel way out of my league here but just some info that may or may not be helpful. :drunk:
 
I used the Conan i got from Vegan for a Heady-ish DIPA today.

Went with the following:

10 lbs 2 row ==== couldnt get pearl
4 lbs Maris Otter
1 lb Vienna
1 lb wheat

Mashed at 153

OG: 1.072

60 min 1.5 warrior - 60IBU

5 min
1.5 simcoe
1 amarillo
1 columbus
1 centennial

Whirlpool (170)
1.5 simcoe
1 amarillo
1 columbus
1 centennial

Pitched the yeast 2 hours ago and i already have some activity.

I am going to ferment this around 62 degrees.

Next time i am going to go all pearl and a little caravienne.

Thanks again to Vegan for the conan!
 
Funny on the caravienne. I was in the LHBS yesterday and was going to do Kern Rivers Citra DIPA. Used Pearl instead of 2 row, and saw the caravienne and was like.. Hrmmmmmm that could be in Heady maybe..
 
Was going to do another 1 gallon test, but I think it's close enough to go to 5 gallons tomorrow:

Heady Topper Clone #5
Imperial IPA
Type: All Grain Date: 1/20/2013
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal Brewer: Me
Boil Size: 6.47 gal
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: My Equipment
End of Boil Volume 5.72 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal Est Mash Efficiency 83.0 %
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage Taste Rating(out of 50): 30.0
Taste Notes:


Ingredients

Amt Name Type # %/IBU
12 lbs 10oz Pearl Malt (2.7 SRM) Grain 1 94.4 %
10.00 oz Hopshot [3.16 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 101.8 IBUs
8.0 oz Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 3 3.7 %
4.0 oz Caravienne Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 2 1.9 %
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 5 7.8 IBUs
1.00 oz Columbus [14.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 8 8.4 IBUs
0.50 oz Amarillo [8.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 6 2.6 IBUs
0.50 oz Nugget [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 9 3.9 IBUs
0.50 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 7 3.9 IBUs

Whirlpool for 30 minutes from 180-160

2.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo [8.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Columbus [14.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 14 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [10.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 12 0.0 IBUs


Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.074 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.074 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.014 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 8.2 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 7.9 %
Bitterness: 127.6 IBUs Calories: 251.3 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 5.7 SRM

Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge Total Grain Weight: 13 lbs 5.6 oz
Sparge Water: 3.76 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F Tun Temperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.20

Mash Steps

Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 16.10 l of water at 170.1 F 155.0 F 60 min
Sparge Step: Batch sparge with 2 steps (0.52gal, 3.24gal) of 168.0 F water
Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).

Dryhop

3 oz Simcoe
1 oz Amarillo
0.5 oz Columbus
 

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