Whirlpooling with Immersion Chiller?

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crypt0

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I recent built one of Bobby M's immersion chiller, and I'm pretty impressed with the performance. Although I was only chilling about 3 gallons, it took just a couple minutes to get it down to temp.

What I did was whirlpool the wort while the chiller was in the kettle. I'm not sure if that's a good technique or not and/or if it some how interferes with the cold break. Any thoughts?
 
Just don't aerate it too much until it's cool, (below 140 at least, I wait until 100). I use a grout mixer on a drill to stir the wort. I drop the mixer into the boil in the last 5 min to sanitize/sterilize. After knockout, I turn on the water to the IC, and run the drill SLOWLY, (barely disturbing the surface), to move the wort around and chill efficiently. Within about 5 minutes, I'm below 100F, at which point I start to crank it up in speed. Below 70F, I remove the IC, and beat the living daylights out of it with the mixer to get a great whirlpool.

I think trying to actually whirlpool, (like, to build a trub cone for easy siphoning/draining), should only be done without an IC in there, as I believe the IC will prevent the trub cone from forming, (simple fluid dynamics...), but there's no problem with stirring with the IC in the wort to aid in cooling.
 
Yes, Moving the IC is almost necessary for good heat transfer. you will use 50% less water by gently moving the IC around in the pot because the greatest heat transfer takes place with the largest Delta T. When undisturbed, the heated water around the coils insulate the cold water from the hot wort creating a low Delta T at the coils themselves despite the fact that the wort is 170.

I simply pick it up an move it to a new location. Once the wort gets to about 80, i will whirl pool/ aerate the wort with the coils and a sanitized spoon.
 
I've been doing the same thing for the last few brews: start the pump recirculating wort about 2 minutes before the end of the boil. Drop in the chiller at flameout, chill. Remove the chiller and continue to whirlpool 10 minutes or until I'm bored. Stop the whirlpool, wait a few minutes for everything to settle and drain to fermenter.

Works fast and settles out a lot of break material. Here's a recent brew - note that I did use a hop bag!

hopcone.jpg


-Joe
 
Yes, Moving the IC is almost necessary for good heat transfer. you will use 50% less water by gently moving the IC around in the pot because the greatest heat transfer takes place with the largest Delta T. When undisturbed, the heated water around the coils insulate the cold water from the hot wort creating a low Delta T at the coils themselves despite the fact that the wort is 170.

I simply pick it up an move it to a new location. Once the wort gets to about 80, i will whirl pool/ aerate the wort with the coils and a sanitized spoon.

Well, we're not talking about moving the IC but rather moving the wort in relation to the stationary IC.

The fastest way to get the whirlpool is using a paddle mixer on a drill but a more hands off way, though slightly less aggressive is a pumped recirculation.
 
Bobby is correct. I've been moving the wort around leaving the IC stationary. I guess the only thing I need to be aware of is this 'hot side aeration' mentioned above.
 
Well, we're not talking about moving the IC but rather moving the wort in relation to the stationary IC.

The fastest way to get the whirlpool is using a paddle mixer on a drill but a more hands off way, though slightly less aggressive is a pumped recirculation.

I'm not going to suggest that it wont make good beer, because i haven't tried it and you clearly have... but i suggest gently moving the ic because i perceive that it will cause less opportunity for oxidation by waiting until temp is below 80 degrees to get a good whirlpool. At its heart we are talking about the same concept (getting the highest Delta T possible at the coils) by different mechanisms.
 
I'm not going to suggest that it wont make good beer, because i haven't tried it and you clearly have... but i suggest gently moving the ic because i perceive that it will cause less opportunity for oxidation by waiting until temp is below 80 degrees to get a good whirlpool. At its heart we are talking about the same concept (getting the highest Delta T possible at the coils) by different mechanisms.

Humm. I am a little confused. As I get mine whirlpooling as soon as the boil is off- been doing that a long time and never had an oxidation issue. I have a huge stout sitting around that is a couple years old (was whirpooled like the tasmainan devil above 100F) and it is still getting better. Maybe I am doing it all wrong? Perhaps I live in a black hole with no oxygen present?
 
Humm. I am a little confused. As I get mine whirlpooling as soon as the boil is off- been doing that a long time and never had an oxidation issue. I have a huge stout sitting around that is a couple years old (was whirpooled like the tasmainan devil above 100F) and it is still getting better. Maybe I am doing it all wrong? Perhaps I live in a black hole with no oxygen present?

Many folks believe that Hot Side Aeration is something to not worry about, unless you are literally injecting pure oxygen into the hot wort, (and even then maybe not). You may now be one of those folks :).
 
I need to come up with a way to raise my IC. When it sits in the bottom of my keggle, it cools the bottom. There is a "puddle" of cool wort in the bottom, with hot wort above. When I give the IC a swirl, the "hot" line suddenly will burn my hand.
 
Before I started whirlpooling with a pump I would just sit next to the kettle and gently rock it back and forth. Not enough to slosh the wort around, but it was plenty to keep that output hose hot.

-Joe
 
Humm. I am a little confused. As I get mine whirlpooling as soon as the boil is off- been doing that a long time and never had an oxidation issue. I have a huge stout sitting around that is a couple years old (was whirpooled like the tasmainan devil above 100F) and it is still getting better. Maybe I am doing it all wrong? Perhaps I live in a black hole with no oxygen present?

ditto. from the minute i drop the IC in i'm whirlpooling and have never noticed an oxidized flavor. def cuts down on water usage and time, plus you wanna aerate your wort prior to pitching the yeast anyhow. i don't see a problem...
 
I need to come up with a way to raise my IC. When it sits in the bottom of my keggle, it cools the bottom. There is a "puddle" of cool wort in the bottom, with hot wort above. When I give the IC a swirl, the "hot" line suddenly will burn my hand.

Just use an oven mit :)

I personally use a 5/8" chiller that I made and just gently raise and lower it while it's chilling. It drops 5.5gal from flameout to 70 deg F in 10min flat.
 
I need to come up with a way to raise my IC. When it sits in the bottom of my keggle, it cools the bottom. There is a "puddle" of cool wort in the bottom, with hot wort above. When I give the IC a swirl, the "hot" line suddenly will burn my hand.
There's no puddle of cool wort on the bottom of the keggle. What's going on is that there is a temperature gradient that forms around the coil, dropping the temperature locally and reducing the transfer of heat from the wort to the coil. When you move the IC, you break up this gradient, which jacks up the difference in temperature between the coil and the wort, radically increasing the rate of heat transfer.
Short version: Don't raise the coil, make it (or the wort) move constantly.
 
I've been doing the same thing for the last few brews: start the pump recirculating wort about 2 minutes before the end of the boil. Drop in the chiller at flameout, chill. Remove the chiller and continue to whirlpool 10 minutes or until I'm bored. Stop the whirlpool, wait a few minutes for everything to settle and drain to fermenter.

Works fast and settles out a lot of break material. Here's a recent brew - note that I did use a hop bag!

hopcone.jpg


-Joe

Why do you have two pickups in the kettle?
 
Duh. I'm so used to my setup with the input on top of the kettle with a silicone hose running to the inside bottom of the kettle I didn't think of the return being so low.
Is the one pickup with the cap the out or the in?

The reason is I'm asking is I get a lot of trub in my center mounted sanke pickup with a false bottom.
 
I have been using the B3 super chiller with a false bottomed keggle. I draw wort from the bottom and recirculate to crate a whirlpool. The innovation I haven't seen mentioned here is that I use this rig for aeration too. While the wort is hot I keep the outflow tube well below the wort level and recirculate gently. Within 10 minutes the wort is down to 90 deg. F. (using 55 deg F. ambient water in through the IC) and then I raise the outflow tube above the wort level and max out the wort flow rate. Another 10 minutes of this an I am at pitching temp and the wort is pretty foamed up. Zip ties attach the recirc tube to the IC and allow me to slide it up and down a bit.

3769831841_3a10f6f2c8.jpg


I do like the IC whirlpool for two big reasons. It allows painless aeration and the trub collection on the false bottom is almost total. The wort going into the fermentor is pretty clean.
 
artbrau, does your false bottom and recircing do a descent job with pellet hops as well?
 
Here is my issue. I like to hop during whirlpool and I use an immersion chiller. Like to put in immersion chiller around 5 minute before flameout to sanitize. Whirpooling while chiller is in does not work well so I guess I need to sanitize it, remove it, then whirlpool. Agree or any other suggestions?
 
I recirculate my wort briefly while at boiling temps to sanitize. I actually turn the burner down to do that as the boiling wort does not like to be pumped...it cavitates. The wort return is a SS tube that's attached to my Hydra, so I have no way to whirlpool without the IC also in the kettle.

I have zero concerns about aeration as there's no source of oxygen...I draw from the kettle output, through the pump, the return through the SS tube that's well below the surface of the wort.

I also don't worry about WP with the IC in because I still get a nice trub cone and it's formed inside the IC coils so they act as a sort of "trub dam" (if you'll allow me to steal the term from SS Brewtech).
 
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