I brewed a Maibock (wyeast munich lager), and after it had reached 90% I gave it a short d-rest. it has been lagering at 39 for almost 5 weeks. I took a sample today and there is a major diactyl flavor. I think my d-rest may not have been long enough (1 day at 70). I was thinking of raising the temp to 50-55 and letting it sit for another week or so. I suppose I could always get some more yeast and repitch. what do you guys think?
Correcting Diacetyl
- Thread starter snwmnhntr
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
I assume that since it's been lagered that it's been racked?
It's best to do the diacetyl rest on the yeast cake, but you can go ahead and do it now since you've got the diacetyl flavor.
Let it warm up to the mid-60s (65 would be great) and let it sit there until every trace of diacetyl is gone. In small amounts, diacetyl leaves an oiliness or slickness on the tongue- so even if you can't taste it you might still be able to detect some that wait. Once it's completely gone, then you can bottle. Hopefully, you have enough yeast there to clean up the diacetyl and repitching isn't necessary.
It's best to do the diacetyl rest on the yeast cake, but you can go ahead and do it now since you've got the diacetyl flavor.
Let it warm up to the mid-60s (65 would be great) and let it sit there until every trace of diacetyl is gone. In small amounts, diacetyl leaves an oiliness or slickness on the tongue- so even if you can't taste it you might still be able to detect some that wait. Once it's completely gone, then you can bottle. Hopefully, you have enough yeast there to clean up the diacetyl and repitching isn't necessary.
I do my D-rests a minimum of 72 hours...usually a week, because I forget.
This is a great thread on it...
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/preventing-diacetyl-hold-butter-please-70438/
This is a great thread on it...
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/preventing-diacetyl-hold-butter-please-70438/
Tonedef131
Well-Known Member
I have been doing a series of APAs with a different hop throughout the whole boil each time. Well I recently did a Sorachi Ace APA and did everything as I normally do, pitched US-05, fermented around 65 and it sat in the carboy for a couple weeks at 70 then it was cold crashed and kegged. It's been in the keg for another couple of weeks and I decided to pull a sample to see how it was before carbing...diacetyl like you wouldn't believe. The only thing I can think is that I somehow got a bad pack of 05 with bad viability.
Anyway, I am thinking about making a bit of starter and when it hits high krausen pitching it in to see if it can reabsorb some of it. Has anyone ever tried this method before with success? I'll probably try it anyway since it is that or feeding it to the 'ol septic tank.
Anyway, I am thinking about making a bit of starter and when it hits high krausen pitching it in to see if it can reabsorb some of it. Has anyone ever tried this method before with success? I'll probably try it anyway since it is that or feeding it to the 'ol septic tank.
I hope you're only kidding about this part
You have to at least bottle and walk away for a few months...
You have to at least Try with anybeer that doesn't taste like Satan's Anus...
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/ne...virtue-time-heals-all-things-even-beer-73254/
OP
OP
snwmnhntr
Well-Known Member
Yes it was racked after 14 days and a 1 day d-rest. I will pull it out of the fridge and let it sit for a coule of days and see what that does.
Tonedef131
Well-Known Member
Just dump a rehydrated pack right in there? Has this worked for you in the past?
you guys need to learn some patience. 14 days fermenting on a lager is short, even if it has attenuated fully. 24hour D rest is a tad short as well. The yeast do more than just convert sugar to alcohol and they continue to do it after the primary fermentation is complete. Even with ales.
+1 to this, I didn't catch the time frame...
To lager means to "store" and it's in the storage where most of the cleaning up of all the by products of lager yeasts happen....
You don't want to rush these things.....
Good catch z!!!
OP
OP
snwmnhntr
Well-Known Member
-1 to this. Somebody didnt read the whole post. 14 days primary. admitedly too short of d-rest, unfortunately had to go out of town unexpectedly "5 WEEKS" Lagering at 39 degrees. I was looking for some tips or pointers. If I wanted a scolding I would have talked to SWMBO!
I'm sure it wasn't a scolding- it's just a bit short for a primary fermentation on a lager. A longer primary helps clean up diacetyl, just as a longer diacetyl rest does. If there isn't any diacetyl after the beer is at FG, though, it's unusual to have some later on. One day at 70 degrees is pretty short, because it takes a day for the beer to even raise 15 degrees or so inside the fermenter. Once it's racked from the yeast cake, the diacetyl clean up will be slowed but you still may have good luck doing it now. A week at 65 degrees might give you just what you need to clean it up.
I had the exact same thing happen to me in the fall with some 05 that i had. Nothing could get the buttery taste away. I ended up having to throw it out.
remilard
Well-Known Member
You'll have to add fermenting wort, rather than just yeast to reduce the diacetyl. You might get away with yeast and sugar or something like that but I would just make a small amount of wort with extract, get it fermenting and add it. Hold all of that at a relatively high temperature for a few days.
If the beer is drinkable now and you don't want to go through all of that, the best strategy is to drink it fast. Diacetyl just gets worse over time and I don't care how much dormant yeast you have in the container with the beer, nothing other than active fermentation will reduce it.
If the beer is drinkable now and you don't want to go through all of that, the best strategy is to drink it fast. Diacetyl just gets worse over time and I don't care how much dormant yeast you have in the container with the beer, nothing other than active fermentation will reduce it.
user 22118
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2008
- Messages
- 2,023
- Reaction score
- 13
I had a problem with diacetyl in a beer and even though it had transferred into the keg, I let it sit at room temperature for a week and a half and the D is gone. So take it out of the fridge, put it in a nice and warm place for a week and then come back to it.
The beer I was talking about was with US-05. I didn't think that Cali yeast gave that character. English yeast, yes, Cali, no...oh well. I will have to change my tactics.
The beer I was talking about was with US-05. I didn't think that Cali yeast gave that character. English yeast, yes, Cali, no...oh well. I will have to change my tactics.
Wasn't scolding, but no 5 weeks lagering is not the same as primary. 14days primary is too short. I usually let my ales sit in the yeast for a month let alone a lager.
Slow down give it some time, your beers will thank you.
Also on the US-05, never heard of it giving off diacetyl. Interesting.
menschmaschine
Well-Known Member
My lagers only get 2 weeks in primary including diacetyl rest. It's best to get lagers off the primary yeast as soon as possible because decaying yeast cells can give off-flavors. This isn't as important for ales because these off-flavors are usually below taste threshold when competing with esters and other flavor-active compounds in ales. But for the cleanliness of lagers, it's a good precautionary measure to get the beer off the primary yeast when fermentation is complete.
It's a balancing act- you want to leave it on the yeast cake as long as any diacetyl is present, but not too long. I've left my lagers up to 3.5 weeks in primary (cold pitched) before racking, but usually it's right around 14 days. I don't usually need to do a diacetyl rest, but I taste for diacetyl and if there is any trace at all (even a very slight slickness on the tongue) and do a diacetyl rest if I'm at or very near FG.
I think that there is still enough yeast present after lagering to put it at 65 degrees and give it a few days to a week to see if the diacetyl clears up. It may work. I've not had the experience that an earlier poster talked about not being able to get rid of diacetyl after active fermentation stops. In fact, my experience is the opposite- that diacetyl isn't cleaned up until after the active fermenation is over. After the fermentable sugars are gone, the yeast will begin to digest their own waste products (like diacetyl). I'd give it a chance, anyway.
menschmaschine
Well-Known Member
Yes, I meant after primary and a satisfactory D-rest (which should be part of primary fermentation). Thanks for clarifying.
