Can I brew with this water?

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flyingfinbar

flyingfinbar

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First off, thanks way in advance for any help...I understand that this can be tedious, but I am having no luck trying to decipher the information here into usable knowledge.

I've been brewing all grain with Poland Spring gallon jugs and mineral additions as my brewing water. I'd really like to begin using my tap water to save money/time, if possible. How does this look for a base water?



http://www.massapequawater.com/water_report_2012.pdf

Also, this information is on the site as well:
WHAT TYPE OF WATER TREATMENT

IS USED?
The Massapequa Water District provides treatment at all
wells to improve the quality of the water pumped prior to
distribution to the consumer. The pH of the pumped water
is adjusted upward to reduce the corrosive action between
the water and water mains and in-house plumbing by the
addition of sodium hydroxide. To provide optimum
corrosion control, the Water District also adds blended
polyphosphates to the water produced at each well site.
This product will sequester the oxidation of metals such
as iron (see section below) and provide a passivating film
on the interior surfaces of ferrous iron and copper piping
to mitigate the potential leaching of lead and copper. It
should be noted that all water treatment chemicals used
by the District comply ANSI/NSF Standard 60. This
standard is the accepted health-effect standard for
drinking water additives. The District is also required to
chlorinate the water supply with small amounts of chlorine.

waterreport.jpg
 
The iron level might be of a concern but it doesn't seem to be excessively high. Does the water have a metallic taste?

Otherwise the water appears to have generally low levels of the minerals that we care about in brewing. You should add salts to this water for brewing.

Alkalinity is missing from the analysis, but I assume that it will be fairly low given the low amount of metal ions.

Kai
 
Kaiser said:
The iron level might be of a concern but it doesn't seem to be excessively high. Does the water have a metallic taste?

Otherwise the water appears to have generally low levels of the minerals that we care about in brewing. You should add salts to this water for brewing.

Alkalinity is missing from the analysis, but I assume that it will be fairly low given the low amount of metal ions.

Kai
Click to expand...

According to the little write up, it says they adjust the pH upward using sodium hydroxide to reduce interaction with the pipes. Is this a problem? Also, with regard to the iron levels, is there anything I could do about that? The water generally doesn't have a metallic taste, as far as I can tell.

The write up says they use chlorine, could I counteract this with a small carbon filter?

Thanks so much for the help!
 
You need at least 50 mg/l of Calcium for good yeast growth. Definitely looks like you need to run your report through https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/ And decide which salts and/or acid need to be added for good mash PH and yeast health.

Since your PH is unknown you would probably have to assume that city water is kept toward a neutral pH (7.0) and you need your mash to run in the 5.2-5.4 pH range. That brun spreadsheet is awesome for figuring this out but it is quite extensive and may seem overwhelming but just follow the directions on it and enter your data.
 
Jayhem said:
You need at least 50 mg/l of Calcium for good yeast growth. Definitely looks like you need to run your report through https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/ And decide which salts and/or acid need to be added for good mash PH and yeast health.

Since your PH is unknown you would probably have to assume that city water is kept toward a neutral pH (7.0) and you need your mash to run in the 5.2-5.4 pH range. That brun spreadsheet is awesome for figuring this out but it is quite extensive and may seem overwhelming but just follow the directions on it and enter your data.
Click to expand...

Cool, thanks. Since some of the values given vary pretty wildly, do I just aim for the the middle when entering my numbers?
 
flyingfinbar said:
Cool, thanks. Since some of the values given vary pretty wildly, do I just aim for the the middle when entering my numbers?
Click to expand...

That's what I would do. Not sure how versed you are on your chemistry but the cation/anion ratios must be pretty close to equal so you have to balance that out first on the input tab of the brunwater spreadsheet. You will likely have to make some assumptions since that report is not complete for water chemistry.
 
Jayhem said:
That's what I would do. Not sure how versed you are on your chemistry but the cation/anion ratios must be pretty close to equal so you have to balance that out first on the input tab of the brunwater spreadsheet. You will likely have to make some assumptions since that report is not complete for water chemistry.
Click to expand...

I think a chimpanzee would likely have a better knowledge of chemistry than myself at the moment...though I am trying!
 
flyingfinbar said:
According to the little write up, it says they adjust the pH upward using sodium hydroxide to reduce interaction with the pipes. Is this a problem?
Click to expand...

No that's not a problem and a fairly common treatment. Since the water likely has low alkalinity it doesn't take much to raise the pH. It would be nice to see the alkalinity number, though.


Also, with regard to the iron levels, is there anything I could do about that? The water generally doesn't have a metallic taste, as far as I can tell.
Click to expand...

At this point I'd keep an eye, or better yet a taste bud, on it. If it doesn't show up as a problem you don't have to fix it.

The write up says they use chlorine, could I counteract this with a small carbon filter?
Click to expand...

yes, that would help. Make sure that the filtered water as no residual chlorine smell or taste.

Here is some additional info about water reports: http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=How_to_read_a_water_report

Kai
 
Ok, I just emailed the water district asking for alkalinity, pH, and total hardness of the water.

I am, however, worried about the iron levels. I'm researching, aka reading that article you kindly posted, and am seeing a huge potential problem with the iron levels that may be present.

Thanks again, Kai and Jayhem.
 
flyingfinbar said:
Ok, I just emailed the water district asking for alkalinity, pH, and total hardness of the water.

I am, however, worried about the iron levels. I'm researching, aka reading that article you kindly posted, and am seeing a huge potential problem with the iron levels that may be present.

Thanks again, Kai and Jayhem.
Click to expand...

Do youself a favor and purchace the brewers water analysis from Wards Lab the cost is reasonable they send you a container and prepaid postage and you get your results emailed to you. Then once you get your results plug it into Bru'n water
 
Fortunately iron is easy to remove though it would be a PITA to have to do it each time you brew. The polyphosphates your supplier is using should sequester the iron but doesn't appear to be doing a very good job. You might wish to consider using citric acid rather than lactic or phosphoric for your acidification as it will chelate the iron as well as acidifying the mash. I don't have any data on this thought with which to advise so you would have to experiment i.e. figure out how much citric it takes to get proper mash pH and see if that's enough to take out the iron. Of course the iron is quite variable ranging from the 'no worries' level to 13 times what is sufficient to ruin your beer. So it's probably best to take it all out. This can be done by thoroughly aerating the water and then filtering it through a bed of clean sand (such as the stuff sold for kids' sandboxes). If there is lots of iron present the water will turn grey or yellow on aeration and an ugly brown stain will show up on the sand. After the water has been filtered wash this off the sand and save it for another day.

You will want to supplement minerals. You do not need as much as 50 mg/L calcium - many excellent beers are brewed with less than this, but it is probably as good a starting point as any. As you have virtually no alkalinity you (or indeed much of anything else except iron) you can use the guidelines of the Primer in the Stickies here to get you started.
 
ajdelange said:
Fortunately iron is easy to remove though it would be a PITA to have to do it each time you brew. The polyphosphates your supplier is using should sequester the iron but doesn't appear to be doing a very good job. You might wish to consider using citric acid rather than lactic or phosphoric for your acidification as it will chelate the iron as well as acidifying the mash. I don't have any data on this thought with which to advise so you would have to experiment i.e. figure out how much citric it takes to get proper mash pH and see if that's enough to take out the iron. Of course the iron is quite variable ranging from the 'no worries' level to 13 times what is sufficient to ruin your beer. So it's probably best to take it all out. This can be done by thoroughly aerating the water and then filtering it through a bed of clean sand (such as the stuff sold for kids' sandboxes). If there is lots of iron present the water will turn grey or yellow on aeration and an ugly brown stain will show up on the sand. After the water has been filtered wash this off the sand and save it for another day.

You will want to supplement minerals. You do not need as much as 50 mg/L calcium - many excellent beers are brewed with less than this, but it is probably as good a starting point as any. As you have virtually no alkalinity you (or indeed much of anything else except iron) you can use the guidelines of the Primer in the Stickies here to get you started.
Click to expand...

Great info, thanks so much for taking the time to post this. Sounds like a process! I'm wondering if just sticking with the spring water is the way to go. I don't know if the iron thing is different from well to well, or if it is inconsistent from day to day.
 
brewtime said:
Do youself a favor and purchace the brewers water analysis from Wards Lab the cost is reasonable they send you a container and prepaid postage and you get your results emailed to you. Then once you get your results plug it into Bru'n water
Click to expand...

I agree with this, it is what I did. It cost $16.50 plus postage to get the report, well worth it because I found I was extremely low on Calcium in my well water and now that I add brewing salts my beers have improved.

Iron content in well water is usually fairly constant just like the mineral contents. Water chemistry from a reservoir or river can vary by season and water levels.
 
If you get the WardLabs test you may want to add a test for iron if it is not included in the test.

Kai
 

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