Batch Sparge...Even Amounts?

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dgoldb1

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When I batch sparge is it that important to use even amounts for both the strike water and the sparge water? If so, should the amount of strike water match the sparge water before or after grain absorption?
 
Are you saying using the same volume of water to sparge with as you mash with? Normally you'll sparge much much more than you mash with...
 
Are you saying using the same volume of water to sparge with as you mash with? Normally you'll sparge much much more than you mash with...

Denny Conn says to use two equal sized runnings when batch sparging.
 
I think he means use 2 equal sized batch sparges, not make the sparge equal your first runnings, but I'm not sure.
 
Sparge volume will affect efficiency. The more you sparge, the more extract you get in the kettle. I don't care about efficiency as long as it's pretty much consistent, so I typically single batch or no sparge to avoid husky, tannic flavors.
 
You wont extract tannins if unless you have a crazy ph. Its been said to use more sparge water than your mash.tannins are a result of ph.People are paranoid of tannins
 
Sparge volume will affect efficiency. The more you sparge, the more extract you get in the kettle. I don't care about efficiency as long as it's pretty much consistent, so I typically single batch or no sparge to avoid husky, tannic flavors.

+1 to that. i usually fly-sparge, but when i batch sparge, i do a single batch. i won't do anymore due to temp concerns and adding tannins.
 
I think he means use 2 equal sized batch sparges, not make the sparge equal your first runnings, but I'm not sure.

Yes, that means that there will be 3 equal runnings- 1/3 out of the mash/ 1/3 out of the first batch sparge/ 1/3 out of the second batch sparge. That would be the ideal way to reach the boil volume with a batch sparge.
 
+1 to that. i usually fly-sparge, but when i batch sparge, i do a single batch. i won't do anymore due to temp concerns and adding tannins.

There is no difference, as far as tannins are concerned, between performing one large sparge or dividing it into 2 smaller size sparges.

I also agree with the earlier poster that people seem to be too scared of the tannin monster.
 
I don't really look too much into making things equal. I just use a 1.25 qt/lb ratio when mashing and figure out how much sparge water I need to hit 6-6.25 gallons from that. It usually comes out to about 4 gallons in the sparge, which I split in half to do two 2 gal batch sparges.
 
Waitaminit....

I calculate 1.25 qts per lb of grains then I sparge with my mash that's my first runnings. Then I add the same amount I added to mash with to do my second runnings.

Is this the right way?

good post BTW
 
I don't really look too much into making things equal. I just use a 1.25 qt/lb ratio when mashing and figure out how much sparge water I need to hit 6-6.25 gallons from that. It usually comes out to about 4 gallons in the sparge, which I split in half to do two 2 gal batch sparges.

Exactly right. Strike water is calculated based on grain/water ratio, grain absorption and MLT dead space. Sparge water is based on obtaining the desired pre-boil volume in the kettle.
 
I mash in at 1.25 quarts per pound of grain. Then I do a mash out so my first runnings will be half my pre-boil volume. The batch sparge should be the same amount as you collect from the first runnings.

For example, I usually collect 6.5 gallons (26 quarts) of pre-boil wort. Using 10 pounds of grain and 1.25 quarts per pound ratio, I mash in with 12.5 quarts. Assuming .1 gallon per pound of grain absorption, I add another 4.5 quarts of near boiling water to collect 13 quarts on my first running. I then sparge with another 13 quarts of 170 deg water for the batch sparge, so I end up with my 6.5 gallons.

I have read that some people don't do the mash out, so you just run off the mash water and add the appropriate amount of sparge water to reach your pre-boil volume. For higher grain bills, you will have closer to half your volume from your first runnings.
 
Waitaminit....

I calculate 1.25 qts per lb of grains then I sparge with my mash that's my first runnings. Then I add the same amount I added to mash with to do my second runnings.

Is this the right way?

good post BTW

Sorry but NO! Mash in at say 1.25 qts / lb. Once the mash is complete, you can run that into the kettle. The simplest method IMO is to then measure how much more wort you need to reach pre-boil volume. Split that number in half and sparge twice. With a little experience it is incredibly simple. You can also run off the mash, sparge once w/ about half of your anticipated sparge volume, then take a measurement on the kettle for the balance required and sparge that amount.
 
Yes, that means that there will be 3 equal runnings- 1/3 out of the mash/ 1/3 out of the first batch sparge/ 1/3 out of the second batch sparge. That would be the ideal way to reach the boil volume with a batch sparge.

It really doesn't have to be exact, though. In my case I heat my sparge water inside on the stove using two different size SS pots. I use the big one for the first sparge and the smaller one for the second. The most important thing is to stir a lot. Plus or minus a quart or so between the sparge volumes won't make any difference.
 
It really doesn't have to be exact, though. In my case I heat my sparge water inside on the stove using two different size SS pots. I use the big one for the first sparge and the smaller one for the second. The most important thing is to stir a lot. Plus or minus a quart or so between the sparge volumes won't make any difference.

Oh, I agree! I can't remember the science behind it, but I think Bobby_M did some experiments and showed that the best batch sparging efficiency came from the 1/3-1/3-1/3 method. But we're talking about 1-2% difference if I remember correctly.

I don't often batch sparge but when I do, I generally divide the sparge water in half and do two relatively equal sparges. I also try to keep in mind the rule of thumb "don't put more than 3 quarts/water per pound/grain through the grain bed", no matter how I divide it.

In my current HERMS, I usually use 1.5 quarts per pound of grain for the mash, to avoid too thick of a mash for my pump (I had grainbed compaction issues with a thicker mash) and then sparge up to my boil volume.
 
I did do some testing and did find that out, but I wasn't scientific about it. It was Kai who ran all the numbers and made the chart.

Long story short, regardless of how many discrete runnings you have, the closer they are to equal volume (the runoff volume, NOT the infusion volume), the higher efficiency. Further, the more discrete sparges/runnings you have, the higher efficiency (to a point, not to exceed what is easy enough to stir).

So, if you're going to run off twice, that's at least running off the mash and then one sparge infusion/runoff. If you can get both of those runoff volumes near equal, great. One only has to do a little bit of simple math to figure this out accounting for how much preboil volume you want, how much the grain absorbs and how much grain you're using. In many cases, this means you either have to modify your mash thickness or add a little water prior to the vorlauf and first runoff.

At this point, I sacrifice the few points of efficiency and stick with a single batch sparge if I'm not fly sparging for the hell of it.
 
I just kind of mixed together the best info from Denny,Jamil,Palmer and mash in at 1.25/qt:pound + absorption amount + tun dead space, stir/mix thoroughly and let sit an hour. Recirc and collect. Next I see how much water I still need to make up my pre boil volume and then add it/ stir/mix that thoroughly trying to use 190ish+ degree water to get the mash up to 168-170. I then let it sit about a minute, recirc, collect, verify my pre-boil volume and get it on. Note that if I don't end up at 168-170 I really dont care but consider it a bonus if I hit it, if I over shoot it a bit I have some ice on hand as a handfull will usually drop you a few degrees and not add significant volume.
 
When batch sparging, efficiency is optimized when the runnings are equal. That means the strike volume is MORE than the sparge(s), to account for absorption. Taking equal runnings as a given, increasing the number of sparges increases efficiency - as the sparge volume approaches zero, you're approximating a continuous/fly sparging technique. It gets into diminishing returns pretty quickly, though. For example, in a "typical" mash (10 lb grist, 7 gal pre-boil):

No sparge: 3.28 qt/lb, 80% eff.
1 sparge: 1.88 qt/lb, 89% eff.
2 sparges: 1.40 qt/lb, 92% eff.
3 sparges: 1.26 qt/lb, 93% eff.
4 sparges: 1.04 qt/lb, 94% eff.

So there's a fairly significant benefit to doing at least a single sparge. Beyond that it would depend on how much time you're willing to commit to relatively small efficiency gains.
 
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