Question regarding starter size

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Bluelinebrewer

Bluelinebrewer

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I've downloaded the Mr Malty app, and punched in my numbers for a starter. According to the app, my yeast is 44% viable. My OG is 1.058, so Mr. Malty says I need a 1L starter, and 2 packages of yeast (Wyeast Dennys Favorite). Well, I don't have 2 packages! Am I ok to go ahead and just make a 2L starter with 1 pack?
 
Www.yeastcalc.com

Plug in your numbers, if you have a stir plate use k.troester selection.

This site will allow you to calculate a stepped up starter if necessary with only only one yeast pack
 
Bluelinebrewer said:
I've downloaded the Mr Malty app, and punched in my numbers for a starter. According to the app, my yeast is 44% viable. My OG is 1.058, so Mr. Malty says I need a 1L starter, and 2 packages of yeast (Wyeast Dennys Favorite). Well, I don't have 2 packages! Am I ok to go ahead and just make a 2L starter with 1 pack?
Click to expand...

There's a slider at the bottom of the app that you can use to decrease the number of packs used and increase the starter size. But I can tell you a couple things...never make a 1L starter. It's so small that it could be worse than nothing. Based on my experience with that yeast ;), I'd make a 2-3 L starter, depending on the age of the pack.
 
Denny said:
There's a slider at the bottom of the app that you can use to decrease the number of packs used and increase the starter size. But I can tell you a couple things...never make a 1L starter. It's so small that it could be worse than nothing. Based on my experience with that yeast ;), I'd make a 2-3 L starter, depending on the age of the pack.
Click to expand...

My guess would be that you're the leading expert on this yeast! :) thanks for the reply! I went ahead and made a 2L starter. The package date was 5/14. This is my first time with this yeast. Putting it in a Citra IPA. This is also my first starter... I've got some learning to do!!
 
Bluelinebrewer said:
My guess would be that you're the leading expert on this yeast! :) thanks for the reply! I went ahead and made a 2L starter. The package date was 5/14. This is my first time with this yeast. Putting it in a Citra IPA. This is also my first starter... I've got some learning to do!!
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've used it a few times!

Be sure to let the starter ferment out fully then refigerate and decant before pitching. Pitch cold, right out of the fridge. Don't let the yeast warm up before pitching.
 
Denny said:
Yeah, I've used it a few times!

Be sure to let the starter ferment out fully then refigerate and decant before pitching. Pitch cold, right out of the fridge. Don't let the yeast warm up before pitching.
Click to expand...

Is 24 hrs gonna be long enough for it to ferment out? I was planning on brewing tomorrow night.
 
:rockin:
Bluelinebrewer said:
Is 24 hrs gonna be long enough for it to ferment out? I was planning on brewing tomorrow night.
Click to expand...

I'd give it at least 3 days to ferment and crash...longer if you're not using a stir plate. Remember, if the yeast isn't ready, you're no more ready to brew than if you didn't have malt or hops.
 
I knew I shoulda started it sooner! Hmmm... Well, I started it last night, so I guess I should let it go until tomorrow night, then crash it for a day. Think I'd be ok to go ahead and brew tomorrow, then pour it into my fermenter, let my wort set over night and pitch the next day? Seems I've heard of other people doing this.
 
Bluelinebrewer said:
I knew I shoulda started it sooner! Hmmm... Well, I started it last night, so I guess I should let it go until tomorrow night, then crash it for a day. Think I'd be ok to go ahead and brew tomorrow, then pour it into my fermenter, let my wort set over night and pitch the next day? Seems I've heard of other people doing this.
Click to expand...

If your sanitation is good, that will work fine.
 
Awesome! Thanks for the tips Denny! Just out if curiosity, why don't I want to warm the yeast prior to pitching?
 
This yeast produced an AMAZING beer!!! This is probably one of THE BEST beers I've ever made!! Good work Denny!!
 
Bluelinebrewer said:
This yeast produced an AMAZING beer!!! This is probably one of THE BEST beers I've ever made!! Good work Denny!!
Click to expand...

Indeed. Starters are the secret to making great beer. After all, the boil makes is what makes wort but its the yeast/fermentation that makes beer and proper pitching rates are key to that part of the process.
 
Denny said:
There's a slider at the bottom of the app that you can use to decrease the number of packs used and increase the starter size. But I can tell you a couple things...never make a 1L starter. It's so small that it could be worse than nothing. Based on my experience with that yeast ;), I'd make a 2-3 L starter, depending on the age of the pack.
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, why would a small starter would be worse than no starter at all?
 
apalke said:
Out of curiosity, why would a small starter would be worse than no starter at all?
Click to expand...

Because it won't have enough nutrients left to rebuild it's glycogen reserves after the starter ferments. The yeast will end up being less healthy than they should be.
 
Denny said:
Because it won't have enough nutrients left to rebuild it's glycogen reserves after the starter ferments. The yeast will end up being less healthy than they should be.
Click to expand...

I disagree. If you are pitching a 1L starter at high krausen they will do just fine. Spectacular even. Might be a different story if you are chilling and decanting.

But from what I understand this is a function of the initial pitch rate in the starter and the size of the starter. It's called the inoculation rate and you want to keep it between 25 and 100 million cells per ml. www.yeastcalc.com does this calculation for you when you make your starter. A 1L starter pitched with 100 billion cells will have an inoculation rate of 100 million per ml, which is right on the edge of acceptable. But since the 100 billion vials and slap packs aren't at 100% visibility a 1L starter will be fine.
 
If you pitch at high krausen, you are likely correct. I don't like to do that, though. I prefer not to have starter wort in my beer so I let it ferment out first.
 
I do have a question for you Denny. Both judges noted that they detected a hint of onion/garlic. I used Citra and Columbus hops. Have you ever had any onion/garlic off flavor from using this yeast?
 
I think I screwed up my starter. It's been sitting on a stir plate for two days. I was going to brew yesterday but didn't and forgot to throw the starter in the fridge. Now I'm cooling my wort. Should I just throw all two liters in the fermenter?

Is constant stirring after the wort is fermented bad for the yeast?
 
HoppyDaze said:
I think I screwed up my starter. It's been sitting on a stir plate for two days. I was going to brew yesterday but didn't and forgot to throw the starter in the fridge. Now I'm cooling my wort. Should I just throw all two liters in the fermenter? Is constant stirring after the wort is fermented bad for the yeast?
Click to expand...

It's not the ideal way to do it but you shouldn't have any major issues. Plenty of people here wait a few days on the stir plate to pitch their starters and they say that they get good results. If I could help it I wouldn't wait that long; I pitch mine at 18-20 hours and have really healthy fermentations and I am very pleased with the outcome.

One time I checked the gravity of my starter after 28 hours and it was 1.08-1.09 so the starter was done before 28 hours. IMO there is no reason to keep the starter going after it is done, and it's recommended to pitch after the growth is done at 12-18 hours. From what I have read and heard on Brewstrong podcasts, once the yeast are done they beef up their reserves and go to sleep. If they aren't chilled or pitched then they start to use these reserves which means that you are pitching less healthy yeast. Not sure how big of a deal it is, but in your situation I wouldn't worry much about two days. Your fermentation can still take of quickly and end up being healthy.
 
Denny said:
:rockin:

I'd give it at least 3 days to ferment and crash...longer if you're not using a stir plate. Remember, if the yeast isn't ready, you're no more ready to brew than if you didn't have malt or hops.
Click to expand...

Do you keep the starter on the stir plate the entire 3 days?

Thanks
 
In yeast Calculator there are 2 different stir plates. J.Zainesheff and K.Troester. K.Troester is much higher than the other one. What are the differences and how do I know which one to use?
 
I use Kai's because he has a lot more documented results and studies done in more real world applications.


Sent from the Commune
 

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