Easy Stovetop All-Grain Brewing (with pics)

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I'm looking to try this method but I have a few questions. I read about 10 pages so I'm not sure if this stuff was covered on the other 27 but here goes.

Can you use a paint strainer bag? Or should I make a custom bag from that voil material used in BIAB method.

I have 2 pots. One is 6.5 gallons, simple SS stock pot. The second is a 8 gallon SS pot with a false bottom, spigot and thermometer. Which pot would you suggest using for the mash, sparge, boil, etc... to make a 5.5 gallon batch?

What would be the limit in lbs of grain I could use?

Thanks for all the great info.
 
Paint Strainer bag is fine.

I would use the smaller pot for mashing and the bigger pot for boiling...then you can run off into the fermenter. However, if you want to use the false bottom INSTEAD of the bag, you could certainly use the 8 gallon. However:

More head space = more heat loss

and you will probably have trouble getting a full boil to fit into a 6.5 gallon pot (that is close to the brim for most and over for me)

Look here to find out: Can I Mash It?
 
cool calculator page, thanks!

Say I mash in the 6.5 gallon pot & boil in the larger 8G pot with the thermometer, false bottom, spigot. I'd need some other pot to sparge?

According to the calculator a 6.5 gallon pot should give me the space required to mash up to 16lbs of grain. That covers most beers. Anything stronger I could just add some extract. So I'm cool there.

The 8 gallon pot is great for boiling. My immersion chiller fits in it. I have a propane jet burner to heat it. I'm good there.

So I guess my question is how to do the sparge? What size container do I need to do a proper sparge? How much water does the average sparge require? Could I use a bucket or a cooler? Do I need a third pot? WWDBD?
 
No, with this method your boil pot IS your sparge pot. You just transfer the bag over. It does help to have a colander and rinse the gains with some of the sparge water before you transfer to the sparge-boil pot.

Remember that you want at least a gallon of open space at the top. I wouldn't trust that calculator for your pot for anything more than 5.5 gallons.

As for the sparge water, you can use as much as you need to reach final volume, as long as you can do a full boil. Just account for absorption, which is about 0.125 gallons per pound of grain (sometimes less with this method.)

Just drain the bag, rinse the grains a bit (if possible) with some sparge water, and then dunk the bag in the sparge water, stir and let it sit for a while longer, then drain again.

You may wish to go back and read over the process again...it looks like you're a little confused on the sparge...everything works in just these two pots. Let me know if you have any more questions!
:mug:
 
DeathBrewer said:
No, with this method your boil pot IS your sparge pot. You just transfer the bag over. It does help to have a colander and rinse the gains with some of the sparge water before you transfer to the sparge-boil pot.
Click to expand...

Most methods call for more sparge water than your mash water, but with BIAB, you just use how every much sparge water you need to reach pre-boil volumes. Since for me I only need around 2 gallons of sparge water, I use my 5 gallon kettle to sparge in, and my 5.5 to mash and boil in.
 
DeathBrewer said:
You may wish to go back and read over the process again...it looks like you're a little confused on the sparge...everything works in just these two pots. Let me know if you have any more questions!
:mug:
Click to expand...

OK I think I have it! For simplicity sake let's say I'm brewing the banana bread beer from the original post

I put 4 gallons+/- in my 6.5 gallon pot and heat to 166F +/-
Add grain bag and temp drops to mash temp of 154F +/-
Cover with lid and let sit for 60 mins +/-
Remove the bag and let drain then move bag to the sparge/boil pot

In the larger 8 gallon sparge/boil pot I heat 3 gallons of the sparge water to 170 or less
When the mash is done I move the bag to the sparge/boil pot and let soak for 10 mins
Remove the bag and let drain
dispose of grain
Add the mash liquid from the mash pot to the sparge liquid in the sparge/boil pot
Top off with fresh water to typical boil volume as necessary
Add DME to adjust pre-boil gravity as necessary
Turn on heat and start boil

Does that sound right?

Should I remove the false bottom from the sparge/boil pot during the sparging soak? The false bottom eats up about 1 gallon of the water space. Do you think there is any danger of the thermometer that sticks into the pot, to rip the bag during the sparge? Do I open the bag and stir the grain during the sparge or just swish it teabag style?
 
Sounds good.

FYI (and I should change the OP) you want your mash to be NO HIGHER than 154°F. I usually mash at about 148-152°F now. You may wish to use that calculator page to determine the exact temperature based on volume and whatnot.

Don't remove the false bottom, it won't affect the mash. The thermometer COULD rip into the bag (it has happened) but I wouldn't be overly concerned in the sparge pot...I usually just give it a good stir in the beginning and then let it sit for 10 minutes. I would certainly try to avoid tugging it against the thermometer when you pull it out.
 
Has anyone dont any first wort hopping with this method? I know that most people do the FWH in the sparge stage. But this method spared differently then the classic mash tun setup, and is much quicker. I don't know if the sparge time will be enough for the FWH. I thought about even mashing the hops maybe halfway through when the pH rises. I am making an Indian Porter this weekend and want a full hop flavor. I really want to try this, but not waste my late addition hops.

Anyone want to weigh in?
 
agenthucky said:
Has anyone dont any first wort hopping with this method? I know that most people do the FWH in the sparge stage. But this method spared differently then the classic mash tun setup, and is much quicker. I don't know if the sparge time will be enough for the FWH. I thought about even mashing the hops maybe halfway through when the pH rises. I am making an Indian Porter this weekend and want a full hop flavor. I really want to try this, but not waste my late addition hops.

Anyone want to weigh in?
Click to expand...

Why not just throw the hops in the bag with the grain. They will go thru the mash and the sparge. That should be enough to extract whatever you'd want to get from the hops.
 
DEATHBREWER.. I didn't read the entire thread so if this has been asked I apologize. Wouldn't the addition of a simple mash tun make this so much easier even than what you are doing? I have used your method for a brew, and then used a tun for two brews this week . Your method made my favorite of my beers so far so thank you for that. But I must admit a simple mash tun made these two a bit easier.
 
maida7 said:
Why not just throw the hops in the bag with the grain. They will go thru the mash and the sparge. That should be enough to extract whatever you'd want to get from the hops.
Click to expand...

That is really what I'm asking. Has anyone tried that? Is that too much time? I was thinking halfway through. A higher pH is supposed to help utilization. The only thing I thought about against that idea was that the hops will be taken out when the grain is. Traditionally FWH are added to the boil kettle, right when the sparge starts, leaving the hops to steep for at least 30 minutes, but also get boiled through the whole boil, which increases bitterness.

Another idea is to throw them in the bottom of the sparge kettle (under the grain bag), and sparge for 20-30 minutes instead of 10, and pour them into the boil kettle. My question with that is if the extra time hurts the sparge? I know temperature is more important than time, but will I get a lot of tannins? It's a porter, so I am mahing high at 154F, and am getting close to that threshold.
 
OHIOSTEVE said:
DEATHBREWER.. I didn't read the entire thread so if this has been asked I apologize. Wouldn't the addition of a simple mash tun make this so much easier even than what you are doing? I have used your method for a brew, and then used a tun for two brews this week . Your method made my favorite of my beers so far so thank you for that. But I must admit a simple mash tun made these two a bit easier.
Click to expand...

What are the details of your mash ton? Is it a cooler? Do you still use a bag or does the mash ton have some other way to separate the grain from the wort? What do you see as the advantage of using a mash ton?

The reason I'm asking is cause I have a simple cooler and maybe I'll do the same.
 
OHIOSTEVE said:
DEATHBREWER.. I didn't read the entire thread so if this has been asked I apologize. Wouldn't the addition of a simple mash tun make this so much easier even than what you are doing? I have used your method for a brew, and then used a tun for two brews this week . Your method made my favorite of my beers so far so thank you for that. But I must admit a simple mash tun made these two a bit easier.
Click to expand...

The whole point is for people that don't have a proper mash tun/lauter tun. If you have a mash tun, then this is only another method at your disposal, but for people who don't quite understand a mash tun, can't build one, or just don't have the money/space to get one.

As for your beers, you said you like this method more? Care to elaborate?
 
maida7 said:
What are the details of your mash ton? Is it a cooler? Do you still use a bag or does the mash ton have some other way to separate the grain from the wort? What do you see as the advantage of using a mash ton?

The reason I'm asking is cause I have a simple cooler and maybe I'll do the same.
Click to expand...

Just a cooler with a tube ran through the drain opening connected to a stainless steel braid.
 
agenthucky said:
The whole point is for people that don't have a proper mash tun/lauter tun. If you have a mash tun, then this is only another method at your disposal, but for people who don't quite understand a mash tun, can't build one, or just don't have the money/space to get one.

As for your beers, you said you like this method more? Care to elaborate?
Click to expand...
Understood.... As for why I like it better, it just seemed easier, I only did death brewers method once and would do it again with no qualms. Maybe I just like using all the stuff lol...
 
I've been using this method for the past few of my brews. Using this method I've been getting around 65-68% efficiency. I just bought a cooler and I'm converting it into a mash tun. I'm hoping to improve my efficiency by moving to a real mash tun.
 
As DB states at the beginning, this method is good if you don't have a lot of equipment, or if you want to brew indoors with less equipment. Just an alternative to other methods... not really to replace one or another... this means you could go from extract to AG without getting a mash tun, just a bag.

As for hops in the mash... I thought that the different addition times were to get different types of utilization? First for bittering, second for flavour, third for aroma. Seems to me that if you put the bittering in with the grain they aren't present for the right amount of time. And you would still have to add flavouring and aroma hops all the same. Not even sure it would work with the temp difference between mash and boil temps.

Somebody feel free to correct me, or point out any false assumptions I may have made. Since I really still know nothing :D
 
lady_brewer said:
As for hops in the mash... I thought that the different addition times were to get different types of utilization? First for bittering, second for flavour, third for aroma. Seems to me that if you put the bittering in with the grain they aren't present for the right amount of time. And you would still have to add flavouring and aroma hops all the same. Not even sure it would work with the temp difference between mash and boil temps.

Somebody feel free to correct me, or point out any false assumptions I may have made. Since I really still know nothing :D
Click to expand...

This is a different method called first wort hoping. It's used in lieu of the bittering addition or part of the bittering addition. It's supposed to have a softer hop flavor and not as harsh as the traditional method of throwing hops in at the beginning of the boil.
 
First off let me say Thank You for the well laid out tutorials of both the partial mash and all grain. I read the entire partial mash first and then the all grain, after that I felt confident enough to do my first brew using all grain.

I used Biermunchers Blue Moon Clone. Everything for the most part seemed to go fine. I was 2° low on both my mash and sparge temp, but for a first timer I'm plenty pleased with that. Since my sparge temp was a little lower I let it go for 15 minutes instead of 10. After that, to my surprise, my stove then gave me enough power to do a full boil in one pot. So far everything is looking great.

Cold break took longer than I was hoping (45-60 min) due to having a very shallow kitchen sink. When the temp was down to 80° I pulled a sample to test my OG. It was 1.054 and I was looking for 1.038. After filling the carboy I was well short of my intended liquid as well. I topped up with water to my desired level and re measured my gravity, it was 1.044. I forget to whirlpool my wort to send any trub to the bottom. The sample I measured was very heavy in suspended sediment.

I'm think I know where I made some mistakes but just making sure. Should I have let my test sample sit before taking the OG. If so, how much of an effect can particulate matter have on my gravity readings? Secondly, any thoughts onto why I would have been close to a half gallon low on my final amount of liquid and what can be done to reduce the amount of trub?

I'm not too concerned as it is fermenting away very nicely. I'll be able to get some efficiency numbers when I get back home tomorrow. Just looking for ways to improve my techique.
 
What volume were you at for "full boil"? You will boil off at least a gallon per hour, even with a very light boil. I generally boil off 1.5 gallons or more and top off if needed.

Hydrometers are usually calibrated to 60°F, so you will want to account for that when taking a reading and try to cool as much as possible. I use a 1 L mug with ice to cool my hydometer samples. It's the perfect size:

Hofbrauhaus-1-Liter-German_3385A903.jpg


I wouldn't worry about sediment in the sample. It shouldn't affect the reading. But I would let it settle (then check again if you'd like) before tasting :)

There are a few ways to reduce the amount of trub.

1. You can whirlpool and siphon from the side of the tank (whirlpooling forces the liquid out to the sides of the pot and causes most of the trub to stay to the center.)

2. You can buy a boiling pot with a spigot and false bottom. This is what I usually do. In fact, the final boiling pot I had that was still for pouring is getting welded for a spigot and false bottom this week.

3. You can filter by pouring through a bag or siphoning through a bag. You could also add an in-line filter if you are using a spigot.

This method will give you MORE stuff from the mash...a lot more can get through the bag than can get through a spigot and line, especially when you vorlauf, so there is that to take into consideration. It's never had a negative effect on my beer, tho, so I don't let it concern me.

Glad everything went well! Let me know if you have any more questions.
:mug:
 
Deathbrewer, how do you clean your nylon bag in the long term? I mean I rinse it after usage and let it dry and get all the grain out, but after 5 or 6 uses, it is a little stained from the grains. Is the short term cleaning enough? I imagine after a long time I would want to clean it more thoroughly. I figure the washing machine is out because of the detergent. Dishwasher?
 
I don't worry about it so much. Once in a while I'll soak them in sodium percarbonate (or PBW) but I generally just let them dry and then knock the dust off. A little stained nylon never hurt anyone :)
 
After there was still stuff left in the one I used for berries in wine I threw it in the dishwasher. Never really thought about cleaning it beyond that. I am a big lover of oxiclean, a long soak in that and everything would likely be gone... (I will have a separate grain bag from my fruit bag)
 
I kept the burner on while I mashed. It didn't burn the bag. However, I do keep it on low, and only keep the pot on the corner of the burner.

I'm still a noob at this. My hydrometer broke halfway through my first time due to some clumsiness on my part. But my beer came out plenty alcoholic.

I straddled the pot between two electric burners, stirred often, and constantly made adjustments to the temp to keep it exactly right. Using two burners, I felt like I had a lot of control over the temp.
 
rexbanner said:
I kept the burner on while I mashed. It didn't burn the bag. However, I do keep it on low, and only keep the pot on the corner of the burner.
Click to expand...

Where were you taking the temperature? I take mine on the top, but I don't have the burner on. You are probably getting a hotter wort on the bottom compared to the top. Also, remember, there are grains resting on the bottom of that pot, which is much hotter than the wort is inside of it. I'm sure the beer will come out fine, but if you are trying to get certain characteristics out of your mash, you might end up mashing part of it a little higher.

I bet you wont even notice it though for a regular beer. Maybe in a pilsner or belgain ale. It's good to know the bag doesn't melt though.
 
Flame burners work better than electric, but I still wouldn't correct or maintain heat with direct heat. It may work well with your setup, rex, but I've known too many people (myself included) that have crazy fluctuations when trying to deal with it.

Even when I use a big mash tun and use direct heat to mash out, it has to constantly be stirred and checked and it will never read completely consistently.

The best way is still to hit your mash temp and then insulate well. Minimizing head space (covering and using a pot that fits the volume with little head space) also helps.
 
agenthucky said:
Where were you taking the temperature? I take mine on the top, but I don't have the burner on. You are probably getting a hotter wort on the bottom compared to the top. Also, remember, there are grains resting on the bottom of that pot, which is much hotter than the wort is inside of it. I'm sure the beer will come out fine, but if you are trying to get certain characteristics out of your mash, you might end up mashing part of it a little higher.

I bet you wont even notice it though for a regular beer. Maybe in a pilsner or belgain ale. It's good to know the bag doesn't melt though.
Click to expand...

Word. I stirred it a LOT, and took temp readings from all over just to be safe. And you're definitely right. It takes a lot of attention, and frankly is a ***** to do.

But, if it's necessary to do it, just know that it won't do anything seriously bad.
 
inmyelement said:
First off let me say Thank You for the well laid out tutorials of both the partial mash and all grain. I read the entire partial mash first and then the all grain, after that I felt confident enough to do my first brew using all grain.

I used Biermunchers Blue Moon Clone. Everything for the most part seemed to go fine. I was 2° low on both my mash and sparge temp, but for a first timer I'm plenty pleased with that. Since my sparge temp was a little lower I let it go for 15 minutes instead of 10. After that, to my surprise, my stove then gave me enough power to do a full boil in one pot. So far everything is looking great.

Cold break took longer than I was hoping (45-60 min) due to having a very shallow kitchen sink. When the temp was down to 80° I pulled a sample to test my OG. It was 1.054 and I was looking for 1.038. After filling the carboy I was well short of my intended liquid as well. I topped up with water to my desired level and re measured my gravity, it was 1.044. I forget to whirlpool my wort to send any trub to the bottom. The sample I measured was very heavy in suspended sediment.

I'm think I know where I made some mistakes but just making sure. Should I have let my test sample sit before taking the OG. If so, how much of an effect can particulate matter have on my gravity readings? Secondly, any thoughts onto why I would have been close to a half gallon low on my final amount of liquid and what can be done to reduce the amount of trub?

I'm not too concerned as it is fermenting away very nicely. I'll be able to get some efficiency numbers when I get back home tomorrow. Just looking for ways to improve my techique.
Click to expand...

The suspended liquid definitely affects your OG readings A LOT. I was waiting for the sample to cool and settle when my hydrometer broke, but preliminary reading was 1.060, far greater than my cream ale should have been.

But it cleared very nicely. Without any irish moss or any other fining agents. Which leads me to believe a night or two in the fridge would have been fine to get an accurate reading.
 
I tried this method for the first time tonight. I had my temp a bit to high and burned my nylon bag.....uggghhhhhhh
 
I think an all round will be good (love a good DB tutorial) - but I bet I will still look at the pics in this one and the other for reference.

Random question DB? I notice you use promash... is that the only software you use? Have a favorite recommendation for a poor new-to-brew-software brewer?
 
lady_brewer said:
I think an all round will be good (love a good DB tutorial) - but I bet I will still look at the pics in this one and the other for reference.

Random question DB? I notice you use promash... is that the only software you use? Have a favorite recommendation for a poor new-to-brew-software brewer?
Click to expand...

I love and use BeerAlchemy, but that is for Mac or iPhones.
 
DeathBrewer said:
It was once. *shrug* It's in my sig, so people seem to find it.

I plan to do an all-around tutorial soon, so I may revamp these guys as well, or they may become obsolete. :D
Click to expand...

DB, may I suggest you leave out the partial mash/all grain labels, and just going with mashing. I've seen so many people hung up on the difference between the two, when THERE ISN"T ANY. Partial simply uses less and makes up with it via extract. As far as your two tutorials go, they really are the same, and have the same inquiries.

Kudos on the efforts, I showed this method to a friend and he is buying a bag asap. It's like the Mr. Beer of mashing, but it makes good beer. You are getting people into it by starting small and simple.
 
lady_brewer said:
I think an all round will be good (love a good DB tutorial) - but I bet I will still look at the pics in this one and the other for reference.

Random question DB? I notice you use promash... is that the only software you use? Have a favorite recommendation for a poor new-to-brew-software brewer?
Click to expand...

I like promash for the recipe formulation. Beersmith is goofy when it comes to adding everything into one window (hops, yeast, etc.) and it irritates me. It also does weird calculations for first wort hops and other things that I don't really trust. I do use it's refract tool quite often :D

Promash also has its quirks, and while I don't always agree with the IBU calculations and whatnot, I do like the layout.

They each cost under $20. I have not yet used beeralchemy...I should give it a shot.

agenthucky said:
DB, may I suggest you leave out the partial mash/all grain labels, and just going with mashing. I've seen so many people hung up on the difference between the two, when THERE ISN"T ANY. Partial simply uses less and makes up with it via extract. As far as your two tutorials go, they really are the same, and have the same inquiries.

Kudos on the efforts, I showed this method to a friend and he is buying a bag asap. It's like the Mr. Beer of mashing, but it makes good beer. You are getting people into it by starting small and simple.
Click to expand...

Good point. Perhaps I should do a "mashing" FAQ and use that as one pointed section of my all encompassing tutorial.
:mug:
 
First of all, when I read this first I thought, "No way is it this simple. If it's this easy, why is there such a big deal about going all grain?!" Honestly, my incredulity kept me from doing it more than my fear. I just tried it last night and it went great, as expected.

My primary question has to do with mash and sparge length. Is there a problem with mashing for longer than 60 minutes? How about a longer sparge? Will these increase efficiency or, perhaps, extract tannins or other Bad Things? I (inadvertently) mashed for 90 minutes and sparged from 20 minutes last night. I'm not too worried, more curious for the future. Thanks!
 
kaastel said:
First of all, when I read this first I thought, "No way is it this simple. If it's this easy, why is there such a big deal about going all grain?!" Honestly, my incredulity kept me from doing it more than my fear. I just tried it last night and it went great, as expected.

My primary question has to do with mash and sparge length. Is there a problem with mashing for longer than 60 minutes? How about a longer sparge? Will these increase efficiency or, perhaps, extract tannins or other Bad Things? I (inadvertently) mashed for 90 minutes and sparged from 20 minutes last night. I'm not too worried, more curious for the future. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Yeah it's not "that" hard, the big issue is just working with that much darn water! It was all my stove could do to get it hot enough.

Longer mash time is a common practice, I have read about people doing 90 minute mashes a lot. As for sparging my understanding is that at the higher sparge temperature you're actually extracting other (more complex?) sugars and stuff and that a longer sparge might be a bad idea, not sure though I'm sure one of the gurus can set us newbies straight if I'm mistaken :)
 

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