Exploring "no chill" brewing

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I've got an HDPE #2 pail that I got some (chilled) wort from a local microbrewery. I've read that HDPE can accept temperatures up to 230F. Can I use this for no-chill brewing?

Mike
 
Amity said:
I've got an HDPE #2 pail that I got some (chilled) wort from a local microbrewery. I've read that HDPE can accept temperatures up to 230F. Can I use this for no-chill brewing?

Mike
Click to expand...

Problem is, when the wort cools, it shrinks... a lot. The pail is too rigid and will buckle under the vaccuum.
 
The Pol said:
I no chilled another beer yesterday, actually I sold off my IC yeterday too!

I had a guest over from HBT for a brew session yesterday, who could not believe that I was not chilling my beer. So I pointed him at the tap on my kegerator where my No Chill Haus Ale was, he loved it. He mentioned how CLEAN it tasted... seriously, no chilling works.

I converted at least one person to brewing on an electric HERMS yesterday and possibly two people to no chill brewing.

Brew On!
Click to expand...



you got me hooked. I'll be ordering a 6 gallon cube pretty soon here.

plus after tasting my pale ale today I'm getting rid of my hop bag....killed my utilization.
 
Maybe I missed it but do you woory about HSA when transferring the wort? Will an autosiphon withstand the heat? Otherwise just dump the whole kettle in?
 
adamjab19 said:
Maybe I missed it but do you woory about HSA when transferring the wort? Will an autosiphon withstand the heat? Otherwise just dump the whole kettle in?
Click to expand...

Ahh, I have a spigot on my keggle with a rotating dip tube inside. I run a hose right to the bottom of my container, so there is no aeration. NO, an autosiphon will not withstand boiling temps.
 
Ok I was thinking that was the case. I guess a hose (proper temp. requirements) fitted to the end of my funnel with a careful pour will do the trick.


And do you squeze the air out of the cube before completely sealing the container? I thought I read that somewhere.
 
adamjab19 said:
Ok I was thinking that was the case. I guess a hose (proper temp. requirements) fitted to the end of my funnel with a careful pour will do the trick.


And do you squeze the air out of the cube before completely sealing the container? I thought I read that somewhere.
Click to expand...


No, I dont, here is why. My no chill container is 6 gallons, because I ferment in it too. So, I simply transfer the wort, seal the lid on it, and let it sit for about 24 hours. At that point it is cooled to pitching temp, I then pitch my starter and place a blow off on the fermentor. Yes, a blow off... last time I thought I was safe, and I was no... blow offs are just so simple and effective!
 
adamjab19 said:
And do you squeze the air out of the cube before completely sealing the container? I thought I read that somewhere.
Click to expand...


If you use the proper sized cube (unlike The Pol ;)), or are looking to store any longer than overnight, yes, you do try to squeeze all the air out before sealing.

As Pol mentioned, he only chills overnight and pitches a day later, and uses the container to ferment in as well. My original project (which has been postponed temporarily due to hectic schedule, which ironically was the reason i wanted to start this project :rolleyes:) would be to hot pack and store the wort, to be fermented days, weeks, or even months later. To do this you do not want the head space in your cube, and do want to squeeze all the air out.
 
deathweed - I was wondering if you've considered alternatives like rapid cooling. What if you had a bucket liner that was food safe and could vacuum seal (like a food saver) ? Out of kettle, then freeze it solid then seal it up?

I do this with other liquids and it is great.

Hmm, maybe I'll do that with some starter wort!

Another thing I thought of is purging the container with CO2 prior (if there were headspace.
 
The CO2 purge was discussed on Pol's thread. The O2 permeability of the HDPE is so high, you will get enough O2 through the walls after a few weeks of storage the wort will achieve saturation so it won't make any difference whether you purged or not.
 
The Pol said:
I no chilled another beer yesterday, actually I sold off my IC yeterday too!

I had a guest over from HBT for a brew session yesterday, who could not believe that I was not chilling my beer. So I pointed him at the tap on my kegerator where my No Chill Haus Ale was, he loved it. He mentioned how CLEAN it tasted... seriously, no chilling works.

I converted at least one person to brewing on an electric HERMS yesterday and possibly two people to no chill brewing.

Brew On!
Click to expand...


yes yes - that was me!

I had never even heard of the "no-chill" method. How I have missed those threads is beyond me. I tasted Pol's Haus Pale Ale that was no-chilled and it was great. And it was very clean tasting - an excellent IPA if you ask me.

I have ordered my coolers, Pol! LOL
 
brrman said:
yes yes - that was me!

I had never even heard of the "no-chill" method. How I have missed those threads is beyond me. I tasted Pol's Haus Pale Ale that was no-chilled and it was great. And it was very clean tasting - an excellent IPA if you ask me.

I have ordered my coolers, Pol! LOL
Click to expand...

Where did you order them from? Ace? Uh oh... now you are starting down a long and winding path my friend.
 
adamjab19 said:
Ok I was thinking that was the case. I guess a hose (proper temp. requirements) fitted to the end of my funnel with a careful pour will do the trick.


And do you squeze the air out of the cube before completely sealing the container? I thought I read that somewhere.
Click to expand...

I am curious if you got a chance to try this out and what exactly you used. I like the idea of no chill but not sure hour I am going to transfer from my pot.
 
I am really intrigued by the no chill technique.

If I could spread a brew day out -- into a brew session then a small pitching yeast session, then I could actually do more brewing with my work schedule.

Using the chilling vessel as a fermentor seems to simplify the process further.

need to hit the supply company website from work to see if I can find those vessels cheaper that US plastics. If I can, I'll let you know.

The HERMS is a long way out for me. With SWMBO being unemployed for two months now, every penny is sacred.
 
thataintchicken said:
I am really intrigued by the no chill technique.

If I could spread a brew day out -- into a brew session then a small pitching yeast session, then I could actually do more brewing with my work schedule.

Using the chilling vessel as a fermentor seems to simplify the process further.

need to hit the supply company website from work to see if I can find those vessels cheaper that US plastics. If I can, I'll let you know.

The HERMS is a long way out for me. With SWMBO being unemployed for two months now, every penny is sacred.
Click to expand...

The no chill method really is cool. The 6 gallon container, when it is pitched into in about 24 hours, works really well. The HERMS is cool yah, but isnt necessary for GREAT beer, it just makes it repeatable by taking out variables.

I had a couple HBT guys over this past weekend that drank my no chill stuff and they really enjoyed it. I am excited to get some people here tasting it and getting more people interested in it!
 
The Pol said:
The no chill method really is cool. The 6 gallon container, when it is pitched into in about 24 hours, works really well. The HERMS is cool yah, but isnt necessary for GREAT beer, it just makes it repeatable by taking out variables.

I had a couple HBT guys over this past weekend that drank my no chill stuff and they really enjoyed it. I am excited to get some people here tasting it and getting more people interested in it!
Click to expand...

Make sure you mark it well for the next time I come over :D
 
Seriously though, this thread is great.

I'm looking at buying at least one of those plastic jugs now and giving it a shot. Of course I just build a 50' immersion chiller that I haven't even used yet.
 
Good think I work in a chemical lab. We have a ton of these cubes sitting around.

Yeah, i'm awesome.

Great thread! This saves me money because now I don't have to buy a new chiller with a pump (no outside water source) and saves money on DME for starters!
 
chefchris said:
Good think I work in a chemical lab. We have a ton of these cubes sitting around.

Yeah, i'm awesome.

Great thread! This saves me money because now I don't have to buy a new chiller with a pump (no outside water source) and saves money on DME for starters!
Click to expand...

Exactly... not for everyone, but it is an excellent solution for the rest of us.
 
Found white ones of these at the local Farm & Ranch supply store. Think they'll work?

BlitzWaterJug.jpg
 
smellysell said:
Found white ones of these at the local Farm & Ranch supply store. Think they'll work?

BlitzWaterJug.jpg
Click to expand...

Is it HDPE #2?

Can you find a way to SEAL the cap air tight?

May be hard to clean out the inside where those handles are too...

If not, then no... I dunno
 
I've been following this thread for awhile and have been VERY interested in no chill brewing...I live in an upstairs apartment and don't have a faucet outside where I brew, so I have to run my chiller hose upstairs into the laundry room, which makes a mess every time. Although I really enjoy the chilling part of the process, for convenience sake I'm going to give this a shot. Once I get a house and a porch...if I ever finish grad school...an immersion chiller will be a convenient option again.

Anyway...I ordered two cubes this morning, and will probably brew a batch after they arrive as an experiment. One thing I'll be sure to do is use a hop-sock to remove the hops at the end of the boil to avoid messing with the flavor profile TOO much (I anticipate some differences from "crash-cooling," but we'll see). Once everything comes in and I get a chance to brew I'll post back and let the results be known.

Thanks Aussies!
 
Oh wait! I have a question:

What kind of tubing/hose is appropriate for transferring the hot wort from the boil kettle to the cube? I'm guessing that my usual plastic tubing won't hold up to the heat, and I don't want aerate the hot wort with a straight pour...
 
kharmajavah said:
Oh wait! I have a question:

What kind of tubing/hose is appropriate for transferring the hot wort from the boil kettle to the cube? I'm guessing that my usual plastic tubing won't hold up to the heat, and I don't want aerate the hot wort with a straight pour...
Click to expand...

I use silicone
 
The Pol said:
Is it HDPE #2?

Can you find a way to SEAL the cap air tight?

May be hard to clean out the inside where those handles are too...

If not, then no... I dunno
Click to expand...

Is is HDPE, and I figured I could use a stopper like you used in your cube. The handles are the only part I'm not so sure about. I'll probably just go with the US plastics ones, but was just hoping I could pick something up locally.

Wasn't there talk of a group buy on the US plastic ones at some point?
 
/intrigued.

I wonder if you had a stainless conical if you could siphon the near-boiling wort directly in there to let it cool.

The issue would of course be with wort shrinkage during cooling. I wonder if that could be offset by pressurizing the vessel with CO2 first, so the gas would expand as the wort shrinks? There must be some way to figure out the feasability mathematically.

The wort would still need to be aerated afterwards, possibly necessitating more gear.

-Joe
 
nostalgia said:
/intrigued.

I wonder if you had a stainless conical if you could siphon the near-boiling wort directly in there to let it cool.

The issue would of course be with wort shrinkage during cooling. I wonder if that could be offset by pressurizing the vessel with CO2 first, so the gas would expand as the wort shrinks? There must be some way to figure out the feasability mathematically.

The wort would still need to be aerated afterwards, possibly necessitating more gear.

-Joe
Click to expand...

If you count on 4% shrinkage due to cooling, you know the volume necessary to make up for. It's going to be very small, like less that a quarter of a gallon for a 5.5 gallon batch. You can put just a small pressure of CO2 in. Let's say 5psi. So that is 5psi over atmospheric.

In order to know what the final pressure will be after cooling, you need to know how much headspace you have, and the temperature of the CO2 when your initial pressure is measured. If you do it quick maybe it will just be around room temp.

So,using the trusty PV=nRT.
P drops from 5psi to ?
V increases from initial headspace to ?
T stays constant (maybe)
R is a constant
n may decrease some as CO2 is absorbed, but let's treat it as a constant for now.

then P decrease by the same fraction V increases. I the conical has 3 gallons of headspace and the wort shrinks by .25 gallons, the volume has increased by 8.3%. Your pressure would drop to 4.6psi. So you are fine.

If T is not constant, the same equation can still be used with a some added before and after Temperatures.

If you initially had
 
oberon567 said:
Is there a reason to not use this?

5 gallon Stackable Container

Also, does anyone have the dimensions of the 5 gallon and the 6 gallon cylindrical containers y'all are looking at?
Click to expand...

I believe those are the containers I am actually looking at. Unlike the Pol, I am wanting something to fill up completely and eliminate headspace so I can store. Due to my schedule becomeing hectic, I have put this project off a bit, but plan on picking it up here in the next week or two. Hopefully I will be ordering from US plastics this weekend or early next week.
 
Well, there is a 5 gallon version of the one Pol uses, the cylindrical one. I just like the stackable ones. And, actually, there is a stackable 5 gallon version made by the same brand as the ones Pol pointed towards...

5 Gallon containers linked to above, Stackable, 14" x 10 3/8" x 11/1/8" - $7.58
5 gallon rectangular Winpack, dimensions unknown - $11.43
5 and 6 gallon cylindrical Winpacks, Dimensions unknown, $13.47 and $15.75, respectively

I suppose the benefit of the Winpack Rectangular over the other brands stackable is the handle, and a larger opening. I dont know if it is wirth $4 more or not... I wish knew the dimensions on all of them... Pol, Wanna share the diameter and height on your 6 gallons if you get the chance? And anyone that has the 5 gallon cylindrical, what are we looking at? Thanks!

And Deathweed, I am really interested in hearing the results of your test and longer term storage, hopefully you can find some space in your schedule to get this experiment underway! I siggest buying the containers now.... that way, when they come to your house and start taking up sapce, maybe they will inspire you...
 
Only concern I could see with the 5gal ones would be blow off, but if you use a blow off tube it should be fine right?
 
smellysell said:
Only concern I could see with the 5gal ones would be blow off, but if you use a blow off tube it should be fine right?
Click to expand...

Thats only if you ferment in them. If you use the 5 gallon to just chill and store and ferment in another vessel (6-7 gallon carboy) with head space at a later date, the 5 gallon are actually preferable to eliminate all head space during prolonged storage.

But if you want to be the ultimate space saver, you can chill and store in the 5 gallon, the wort shrinks as it cools, so when you re-open the container the vacuum release will give you some head space, then just add some fermcap and pitch. I am sure you can find another thread on here somewhere on the magic of fermcap, so no need to go OT on this thread, but i will just say I have on several occasions fermented in a 6 gallon carboy with the wort in the neck with fermcap, and have not used a blowoff. Yes, that stuff is that cool :D
 

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