Trouble in Bubble-dise

Okay, we made our first batch 12#alfalfa honey-6 gl h2o mead. Used White Labs Sweet Mead Yeast, Yeast nutrient-1tsp. had great bubbles, ya ya ya. Then, we siphoned it to the secondary. We added Blackberry puree when we changed it over. It is very clear and smells great and tastes alright. Have the airlock on it. BUT.... NO BUBBLES.
Then we started another batch in our primary- 12# wildflower honey, 6gl h2o, 6 tsp nutirient and 1 white labs sweet mead yeast. 24hours into the primary and we are looking great, foam, lots of bubbles, the works.
I wrapped both in dark towels and they are in the finished basement/den, slightly chillier down there but not cold.

O wise master of Mead....
Here are my questions:

1. For the Secondary Carboy: Should there be bubbles/airlock in the secondary?

2. For the Secondary Carboy: If there are supposed to bubbles, how do I get some? Add another yeast? More nutrient?

3. For the primary: Should we add nutrient again at all, if so when?

4. For both: Should these be shaken/gyrated, there is a lot of conflicting thoughts on shaking to aerate. ?

PLEASE HELP! Thank you.

for the one on secondary, what was the og and the sg when you transferred to secondary? And how much blackberry puree? And what was the sg after you added the puree? I can do some calculations from there.

Do NOT shake and aerate it. It will oxidize and you'll end up with a sherry-like (bad) flavor. After fermentation starts to slow down, you want to transfer it quietly and keep air out of it.

For the one in primary, staggered nutrient additions are fine, but you started with alot and it's probably not necessary. I usually add a little bit at a time, not 6 tsp at once.

Great feedback. I appreciate all the help we can get due to this being our 1st and 2nd batches.

Yesterday we bought a hydrometer. Havent used it. but will today. So for the first batch, no clue. And since Im a lay-man at this, I can ask since I know someone else out there is thinking the same thing... What is an OG and an SG in mead making? Please forgive the freshmoric innocence to this wonderful hobby.

og=original or starting gravity
fg= final gravity (used to determine if/when a ferment is finshed or close to it). two or three readings over three days that don't change much is sign for transfer or bottling if close to anticipated fg





ps nice to see you post here and not just in chat

A hydrometer is really helpful in wine and mead making. If you know where you are starting, you can know when to be finished.

The reason I asked those questions is because there is no way to tell if your mead is finished, or stuck, without knowing those measurements. I'd have to guess.

What I suggest is this- take the sg of the mead in secondary. Check it again in a week. If it's the same (and it's clear, you said) it might just be finished. I can try to backwards calculate what the original gravity might have been and from there use the figures from the yeast maker's website and try to figure out if you reached the maximum alcohol for that yeast. It would really be easier to check the sg when you make a batch (it should be in the 1.100 range or thereabouts) and then know the approximate alcohol % the yeast will conk out at. If it's not there, it may be stuck and might benefit from repitching the yeast.

Ok, lets just say for all included purposes that it was ready to be put into the secondary-since it is now, should there be bubbles in the secondary?
If there are not bubbles, does this mean it is ready to be racked into smaller more manageable bottles for storage?

No, not necessarily. Just because you dont' see bubbles doesn't mean it's not fermenting. It could still be fermenting. And if you added puree, you'll want that to sit for a while, I'd think. If you rack it off the puree, you'll lose the flavoring.

I'd check the sg now and again in a week to see if it's fermenting. If it's not, that's ok. If it is, well, that's ok too! But then you'll know for sure.

You mentioned repitching the yeast, this means just tossing in another vial of sweet mead into the secondary and giviing 'er another go at it?

Yes, but I don't think you'll really need to do that. It really depends on the ABV and the amount of fermentation taking place. If you check the sg in a week, it might be different than today. If it is, it means it is still fermenting. It usually slows way down in secondary anyway. I have 22 gallons of wine in secondary right now, and I have very few bubbles. Some are done, some are finishing up, but they are very quiet. What you might see are some fine lees (sediment) developing on the bottom as the mead yeasts finish up and flocculate out.

Bubbling is not a reliable sign of fermentation, so you can't really rely on it. The only real way to tell is to check the sg.

ah, clarity thru your description. Thank you! I do see some the lees and honestly think it is finishing up.
Sounds good! And again, thank you.

so if its done, how long should I let it sit in the secondary before racking?

Oh and another thought, since I only added 1teaspoon of nutrient int he initial set up, should maybe I add a little nutrient to my secondary just incase, like a tsp or so, just to see if it might be stuck?

Well, it might not be stuck. That's why the sg readings are so important. You can add a pinch of nutrient, and it won't hurt. But I'd take the sg today and next week before thinking it might be stuck.

I don't think it's done. I'd take sucessive sg readings to see if it is indeed done and then rack it every 30-45 days as long as you have lees. Once you no longer have lees, then I'd let it sit about 6 months.

Ok for the batch in the secondary the hydrometer reads at 1.000 exactly. This batch is the silent one, we dont want it to be dry. How much honey can we add and when can we do it, when we do it, should we add more yeast? HELP!!!

Well, if you just put it in secondary, you'd be rushing it to really do anything right now. No more yeast is needed, since it's been fermenting for you. Wait for a while, until it's completely clear and not dropping more lees. Rack as necessary. When that's finished (probably within 6 months or so), you can stablize and sweeten.

Mead is a long term project and shouldn't be rushed. In two years, it'll be a good time to open it and enjoy it.

After investing what I invested in honey, I dont want to rush. However I dont want it to sit staginate either. Yooper, yuour a good help! Thanks for all the insight..but of course, this day wouldnt be complete without more questions from the noob.

how do you stabilize? sweeten? .. I picked up the mead making book, but it was japanese to me and I put it back down. You all speak english, and for that I appreciate the help.

Stablizing is really easy. After fermentation and bulk aging is finished, you use a crushed/dissolved campden tablet per gallon and then potassium sorbate (I think it's like 2/3 tsp per 5 gallons, but I have to check!) dissolved, too. Put that into the receiving carboy and rack into it. Wait 5-7 days to ensure no refermentation and then sweeten as desired. What I like to do is take out a big sample and sweeten that to taste. Then take a sg reading of your sample, and sweeten the whole batch to that sg. A couple of words of caution, though- UNDERsweeten the batch just a tad. It seems like it gets sweeter as it ages. So, so you try it at 1.008 and it's not quite sweet enough but at 1.010 it's perfect- I'd sweeten to 1.008. My dandelion wine is just a little too sweet because I sweetened it to where I wanted it. It was great when I bottled it, but now it's just a wee bit too sweet. Also, keep an eye on it for a week or so after you sweeten- to make certain that it didn't restart fermentation. So wait to bottle until you're absolutely sure that no fermentation is taking place. use the hydrometer to make sure and then you can bottle. If you bottle while it's fermenting, you'll have popped corks and/or bottle bombs.

You can sweeten with honey, fruit juice, sugar syrup, etc. What some people do is "backsweeten". What that means is when they start their mead, they take some out of it and freeze it before they add the yeast. After they stabilize, they add that reserved must to it. This preserves the flavor and sweetens too. I never plan ahead, so I've never done it. But I think it's a great idea!

PS- it won't "stagnate!" Age is the best thing for mead. Once it's fermented, it'll keep for literally years and years. Meads tend to be best after 2 years, or even longer. That's when it mellows and gets drinkable!

Yooper has far more experience than I, but I'd have to agree: Relax, don't rush, and don't worry.

For my first (and so far only complete) batch of mead, after racking to secondary, I literally drove it 4 hours (talk about anxiety with it sloshing around, buckled into the front passenger seat!) and left it in a friend's dry, warm basement for something like nine months. I checked on it at most once a month, and several times discovered that the fermentation lock was empty. I just refilled it with vodka and hoped for the best. The mead turned out great. (All the more remarkable given that I wasn't exactly using the most forgiving ingredients: cans of decade-old government-surplus honey and homebrew-shop tannin, yeast nutrient and dried champaign yeast.)

Sorry to jump in so late in the posts but the addition of the blackberries has boosted the sugar level back up again. With the mead yeast, it kind of makes it stutter and slows as it adjusts to the new environment. Don't add any more honey as the fruit will increase the sugar level alot and adding in steps can cause the yeast to produce higher ABV % than normal.

Yooper gave great advice, wait for it and check the gravity. I always check before any additions and then after to see where I am at. I stabilize my meads then wait for a week and backsweeten if needed. There are several charts on the net showing how much honey to add to increase the gravity specific points.

Yooper and Guys Listen, this is the haps. I am not in the state with the mead, but I have been sent pics, and he thinks it might have mold. I read another article where a guy thought it was mold and everyone thought it was Lees. Here are some pics, there is no 'hair' on these things, but I need an opinion. We also have concluded we need to keep it a wee warmer so we are now tryingt o devise a plan to keep it warm, as it snowed today.

http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee95/JandKsaccount/?action=view&current=90307917.pbw] [/IMG]

Karah, I can't see it at all! could you repost the link and I'll try to see in on there?

http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee95/JandKsaccount/?action=view&current=112307nmbr3.jpg

http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee95/JandKsaccount/?action=view&current=112307nmbr2.jpg

http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee95/JandKsaccount/?action=view&current=Nov23rd07.jpg

Well, it's really hard to tell from the picture. It does look like a mold but I can't be sure at all from those pictures.

Is that white stuff growing and getting bigger? If it is, then I would say it is infected. I can't tell if it looks like a pellicle or not.

Is that the one you added blackberries to? It could be some fermentation foam or it could be a mold.

that is the one that we added the blackberry to. if it is fermentation, great. But if it is infected, what do I do? Why is this so complicated? lol.

Well, I'd wait and see, as hard as that is! Either it will get better (then it was fermentation) or it will get worse. If it gets worse, we'll probably tell you to rack from underneath the "mold" and use campden tablets. But, wait and see!

ok, i do appreciate the knowledge. we will wait.....happy thanksgiving.

Yoopers right, patience is the key to mead. As for the mold, it'll develop quickly and either get hairy, or form an opaque layer on top of your mead within a few days. If this isn't happening, and you still see little white floaters on the top of your mead, these might be yeast globules, or super tiny bubble clumps from residual fermentation. If its a problem, itll develop quickly. if nothing happens for a while, you're probably safe. (can you tell i've had an infected batch once or twice? )

mike