Cause for unbalanced porter

I brewed a porter a few months ago and it has what I call a strong roasty flavor. I think it is somewhat too strong of one flavor although I have given it to many friends who like it. I assume it is the Roasted barley in the recipe below causing the strong flavor. Any comments on what i should tune back on my next batch? Would the Choc or Black Patent grains contribute to the strong roasted flavor I taste?

3.3 lbs dark lme
4.5 lbs light dme
0.5 lb Black Patent
0.25 lb Chocolate
0.25 lb Roasted
1.5 oz Norther Brewer (9.4%), boiling
1 oz Tettnanger, dry hop

Thanks.

1/2 pound black patent probably put it over the top, especially with 3.3 pounds dark lme, which is made with c60 and....black patent.

1/4lb roasted barley will also definitely add a lot of roast - in a porter, probably 2oz is max.

Yep. Black patent is like the espresso of the roast malt world. I use a 1/4 pound in a ten gallon batch.

BierMuncher said:

Yep. Black patent is like the espresso of the roast malt world. I use a 1/4 pound in a ten gallon batch.

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Except that it isn't a crystal malt... (never mind, my brain isn't firing on all cylinders...)

I've found that adjusting my water to have enough carbonate (by adding baking soda or chalk) really helps to reduce the harsh/acrid notes that black patent can give. I've gone as high as 1 lb in 5 gallons without issue with the right water.

BierMuncher said:

Yep. Black patent is like the espresso of the roast malt world.

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Oldsock said:

Except that it isn't a crystal malt...

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uh, what??

motobrewer said:

uh, what??

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Clearly I'm crazy... no idea what I was reading.

lol. but, that aside, aren't roasted malts made the same way as crystal, just...roasted longer?

also, I brew with pretty mineral-void water, and my dark beers always had a harsh taste. this last porter i made i spiked with a heavy dose of calcium, and it's been much better.

1.5 oz Norther Brewer (9.4%), boiling

If this was added for a 60 min boil, it might be adding more bitterness than a usual porter. This could be combining with the roast malt to make it seem unbalanced.

The porter I just brewed (1.053 OG) has only 1 oz of 6.8% Saaz for bittering.

motobrewer said:

lol. but, that aside, aren't roasted malts made the same way as crystal, just...roasted longer?

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Crystal malts are soaked and “stewed” in a moist environment so that their starches convert to sugars (which can then caramelize), roasted malts are just roasted dry/hot (as far as I'm aware). Roasting a crystal malt longer would give you a dark crystal malt (Special B, Extra Dark, CaraAroma etc...). Roasted malts are the dark end of the biscuit, amber, brown , pale chocolate continuum.

To make a generalization, most people stop using anything but light DME/LME once they start crafting their own recipes. By itself, your grains would not produce a beer that's too roasty, but as mentioned above, the fact that you combined it with dark LME means you added a huge amount of roasted grains.

Get more control over your recipes by switching to light extract and then devising your specialty grains.

Thanks everyone. What I had read about black patent was that it adds color but not as much flavor. Glad to have that straightened out now. And I have been doing subsequent batches with just light DME. This porter was one of my first non-kit beers so I just took a recipe and made some small modifications. Funny thing is that I started with Joy of Homebrewing's Sparrow Hawk Porter which calls for 1 lb of Black Patent (but no Chocolate or Roasted). I cut the Black Patent in half and added a 1/2 lb of Chocolate and 1/2 lb of Roasted. I wonder what it would have been like with a full lb of Black Patent.

careful with that joy of homebrewing book. I started with that one too and now that I know a little bit more about brewing some of their recipes and recipe recomendations just seem completely off. Not to say papzain doesn't know his stuff but I think it's information doesn't match with current brew practices or the current ingredients available.

I started with Papazian as well and you gotta give him credit for really instilling brewers with the fanatical love (joy?) of homebrewing.

However, I was SUPER pissed when I made my first AG based off his recipes and realized that my efficiency is WAY lower than his... I think those recipes use something like 85% efficiency! Ridiculous!