Cider Experiment

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tokerlund

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I made my first 5 gallon batch of cider a year ago. It lasted 6-8 months and my 2nd batch, which I started last fall is all but gone. As a result, I am hoping to make a good sized batch, say 6 - 10 gallons this time around. My problem is I have tinkered with the recipe each time. So this time I am going to do the following.

All Batches will be straight cider with no added sugar or fermentatables. I like to drink it young and I want only 5-6%. I like to ferment it dry and then add a bit of apple juice just before I bottle to provide just enough sugar to make it sparkling.

I plan to make 1-3 gallon batches of each of the following

  • American Wheat Ale Yeast
  • Nottingham Yeast
  • SO-4
  • SO-5
  • Lager Yeast (Maybe a Steam Beer yeast)
  • Montrach Wine Yeast (maybe a few others I have kicking around)

I also wanted to attempt to dry hop some of the ciders with Cascade or Citra

Any advice, thoughts or suggestions? I'm going to hit Costco and the LHBS on Friday.
 
Don't waste your time with 1 gallon batches. You put as much time and effort into them as you would a 3, 5, or 6 gallon batch and get very little yield.

Nottingham produces very little krausen, don't be surprised to see nothing.

S-04 produces a massive yeast cake 2 - 3 inches deep, at least it has both times I've used it.
 
I've made 3 5 gallon batches of cider. One was with champagne yeast, and the other 2 with Nottingham. I made each with cinnamon sticks and each one I added some extra sugar but not a lot. The best one in my opinion was the one with champagne yeast. It finished pretty dry and ended up being more like a wine. The other two with the Nottingham yeast were too sweet for my taste.
 
I ended up doing the following

S-04 (1gallon)
Montrachet (3 Gallons)
Champagne (1gallon)
Nottingham (3 Gallons)
W34/70 (1gallon)
WB06 (1gallon)
Cote Des Blanc (1gallon)

I threw the W34/70 in a tub of water to keep it cooler (67*), as it is a lager yeast. The rest are brewing at between 72* & 75*. They are all in the basement and the temp doesn't fluctuate too much.
 
I ended up doing the following

S-04 (1gallon)
Montrachet (3 Gallons)
Champagne (1gallon)
Nottingham (3 Gallons)
W34/70 (1gallon)
WB06 (1gallon)
Cote Des Blanc (1gallon)

I threw the W34/70 in a tub of water to keep it cooler (67*), as it is a lager yeast. The rest are brewing at between 72* & 75*. They are all in the basement and the temp doesn't fluctuate too much.

I had never even bothered to look into lagering. I just realized that 67* is about 10* higher than recommended. If I had known, I could have put it in my beer fridge as both of my kegs are dry at the moment. Anybody have any thoughts as to how that 10* is going to affect cider? I guess I have a steam cider!
 
I have also used WYeast Liquid Cider Yeast, and was quite happy with that.
 
Your lager cider will just be a bit more fruity as a result of the extra heat during fermentation. Not a bad thing, but could produce some extra SO2 as well, so let that gas off in secondary a bit before bottling.
 
Great, thanks! The fruity flavor is worth testing out. Especially since I really don't have a reliable lagering option at the moment. If I had been able to lager it in the 50s it would have been a one time deal. At least this way I get an idea of what I could make regularly and how it would taste.

I am about 40 hours in and the bubbling has slowed significantly. I will be away this weekend, but should be either racking these over, cold crashing or bottling the weekend after. 14 days should be enough for a cider with an estimated OG of about 1.050 to ferment out completely at ~70* I would think.

I plan to taste before I carb and post notes, then again after. I may blend two batches to fill my keg, just for convenience. I am hoping to identify two that I think would go well together. . . or maybe just my least preferred two on the hope that they improve with blending.

I had planned to dry hop a gallon of the Notty and the Mont, but my LHBS did not have any of the C hops. He tends to run the store as a hobby and it can be very difficult to get what you want when you want it. Rather than taking a stab in the dark on hops, I'll just save that for another time.
 
Racked them over hours ago.
Juice OG was 1.052
@ 15 days @ 72*-75*

34/70
-forgot to take an Gravity or taste test

WB-06
- 1.005
- Strong Apple
- Tart Bite
- By far my favorite so far

Cote Des Blancs
- 1.000
- Dry w/ subtle apple

S-04
- 1.010
- Sweet
- no apple flavor detected
- Might be a good cider to flavor with other juices after ferment. . .

Champagne
- 1.004
- Dry
- Small Apple w/ slight tang

Montrachet
- 1.004
- Sweet
- Little Apple
- Slight tang

Notty
- 1.010
- Sweet
- No Apple


As the hydrometer shows, it is still early in the process. Most probably have another week or two to ferment out completely. The Montrachet & Notty were both my least favorite. They tasted watered down and had little flavor. Both however are 3 gallon batches, where the rest a 1 gallon. I loved the WB-06. The tang, sweetness and apple were a nice mix. In the future, I might look at killing the yeast when they hit this FG and then keg it. The others are all good. The few with very little flavor I am thinking I would use to make a Strawberry Cider or a Rhubarb Cider in the future. As I said earlier though, time will tell how these come out in the final taste.

Cider1.jpeg


Cider2.jpeg
 
34/70
-forgot to take an Gravity or taste test

Bottling Day 7/6
FG 1.0
Taste: watery with a little something. Cloudy
ABV= 6.6%
Calories = 158 per 12oz

WB-06
- 1.005
- Strong Apple
- Tart Bite
- By far my favorite so far

Bottling Day 7/6
FG 1.006
Taste: Tart! Great apple flavor. I will make this again with 5 gallons
ABV= 5.8%
Calories = 162 per 12oz

Cote Des Blancs
- 1.000
- Dry w/ subtle apple

Bottling Day 7/6
FG 1.010
Taste: sweet! This makes me nervous as all the others dropped gravity points, where the Cote gained some. I only topped off with a very small amount of apple juice. I am hopping for no bottle bombs. I also primed with less apple juice.

ABV= 5.2%
Calories = 164

S-04
- 1.010
- Sweet
- no apple flavor detected
- Might be a good cider to flavor with other juices after ferment. . .

Bottling Day 7/6
FG 1.005
Taste: a bit sweet with a hint of apple. This was cloudy
ABV= 5.9%
Calories = 161

Champagne
- 1.004
- Dry
- Small Apple w/ slight tang

Bottling Day 7/6
FG 1.004
Taste: Dry, a bit tart not much flavor and cloudy

ABV= 6%
Calories = 161
Montrachet
- 1.004
- Sweet
- Little Apple
- Slight tang

Bottling Day 7/6
FG ??? forgot to measure before I took a healthy swig of my testing cider. As a result there was too little to float a hydrometer
Taste: a hint of sweet and a small bite of tartness. There is also something (good) that I can't quiet put my finger on.

ABV=
Calories =

Notty
- 1.010
- Sweet
- No Apple

Bottling Day 7/6
FG 1.005
Taste: A bit tart, and a bit sweet. More flavor of apples than any of the others by a big margin except for WB06 (my favorite).

ABV= 5.9%
Calories = 162

The pictures are from the sampler packs I was making. I put one bottle each to make a 6-er. I held out the Montrachet because I have brewed that one before and know that I wanted a lot of that for me to keep. I got 8 variety six-packs that I plan to give away or taste with friends. I also managed to get at least 1 750ml champagne bottle full of all of the different flavors. I plan to age them and see how they taste with a few months on them. The rest will be for drinking green, as this is probably how I will enjoy them if I brewed any of them again.

On a side note, some of my sanitized bottles got mixed in with my clean bottles. As a result, when I sanitized them all, some were both clean and sanitized others were just sanitized twice. About 1/2 way through I noticed some junk floating in one of the bottles I was filling. I went back and reviewed all that I had filled and found the 10 bottles that had snuck through. Some I will wait it out and see how they taste, but I had to pour two of them. I made them into their own six-packs. So in the end, I really only have 4 respectable sampler packs.

I learned a good lesson. From now on, I don't think I will accept empty bottles that other people have drank. I KNOW that I rinse all of mine twice, check for residue then rinse again. Then I go back later and clean and sanitize them. I got burned because family was drinking up my Zombie Dust clone at my daughter's birthday party and then setting them up in the section where I save my bottles. I saw them all there and assumed that I had rinsed them all and checked that they were clean. . . but sadly they were not. The worst part is most of the bad bottles had my beloved WB06 in them.

Oh well, 10 bottles and I learned a good lesson!

Tasteing Cider.jpeg


Boxing Cider2.JPG


Boxing Cider.jpeg
 
Thanks for sharing your experiments Tokerlund! Info makes us all better brewers. Never tried WB-06 , but it sounds like I should. :)
 
Update:

It is almost 2 months removed from the brew date. I took my 6-pack samplers on vacation and people powered through them. I have gone through all my 1-gallon batches and most of my Notty. I just have a 12-pack of 16oz Mont left.

I just picked up some WB-06 and plan to hit Costco for the apple juice this weekend. I am hoping to make 10 gallons of WB-06 & Juice, 5 for the keg and 5 for bottles. I am hoping this stuff lasts until Thanksgiving. . . or maybe Halloween.
 
Update:

It is almost 2 months removed from the brew date. I took my 6-pack samplers on vacation and people powered through them. I have gone through all my 1-gallon batches and most of my Notty. I just have a 12-pack of 16oz Mont left.

I just picked up some WB-06 and plan to hit Costco for the apple juice this weekend. I am hoping to make 10 gallons of WB-06 & Juice, 5 for the keg and 5 for bottles. I am hoping this stuff lasts until Thanksgiving. . . or maybe Halloween.

Yup, shoot for Halloween! :)
 
I have 11 gallons going. I also have some frozen blueberries, Raspberries and blackberries. I plan to put 5 gallons in the keg and then make a few gallon batches of flavored cider.

On top of that I had 12-15 lbs of rhubarb I had to get going. So some of that 4 gallons might end up a blend. In addition to that I have a gallon of strawberry cider and 4 gallons of peach cider that might also blend in to varying degrees with the cider.

I am going to be very happy in about 60 days!
 
Well,

The apple cider went into a keg (5 gallons), I also racked onto 96oz bottles over
Blackberries
Blueberries

and I mixed with some Rhubarb wine I had going but was too big to fit into my 3 gallon carboy and too small to fit into my 6 gallon carboy.

Femented WB-06 racked onto Blackberries:
I immediately bought some more blackberries. This is probably my favorite cider ever.

Femented WB-06 racked onto blueberries:
Turned out 'ok', but I realized I am not a huge fan of blueberries.

Femented WB-06 racked into equal parts Rhubarb wine:
Very, very, very good! Rhubarb wine alone is turning out great, almost like a Pinot Giorgio. Mixing it with the cider was a perfect combination.

I also had made some Peach cider from fresh peaches. I racked that on Blackberries and Blueberries too. The peach also got mixed with some strawberry cider and that is very good. The peach and the strawberry were both Montrachet yeast.


EDIT: Oops, forgot to say I drained the last of my 12 gallon batch last night. Of course that does not count the stuff I mixed above. That is waiting for Thanksgiving and Christmas.
 
Hmph, blackberries huh ? I'll put them on my "need to try" list. I picked up some pints of 100% natural blueberry juice from Kroger on sale at a buck each and was thinking of a lemonade-blueberry thing for the swmbo. My main priority right now is making something for ME. I have not been real pleased with anything except the apple jack I made. On deck is a plan for some butterscotch-apple. My last weak attempt at it was 2 candies per 12 oz bottle and the butterscotch flavor was almost undetectable, as was any extra sweetness.
 
Blackberries are less acidic than raspberrys right? I'm trying a cider/raspberry combo this year. Blackberrys might be NEXT years project....

:)
 
Walmart has "Apple Pie" apple juice on sale right now. It is apple juice with cinnamon and vanilla extract. I bought 2 gallons to give it a shot.

I also have some frozen raspberries in the freezer that are going to have some cider racked on top of them. I'd love to hear how yours comes out.

Blackberries were awesome, but I love dry and I love tart.
 
New Member
I like reading these type of threads.
I am fermenting a cider now with W 34/70 lager yeast for the first time,.
I have been brewing ciders for 12 years and I actually have a go to yeast that I make 90% of my ciders with.
That would be WB-06
I have found WB-06 never never blows sulphur, gives you the cleanest profile, and ferments fast.
The only drawback is that if you want the cider relatively sweet, you have to watch fermentation closely because
this yeast will get you down to 1.000 really quickly.
 
Well,

The apple cider went into a keg (5 gallons), I also racked onto 96oz bottles over
Blackberries
Blueberries

and I mixed with some Rhubarb wine I had going but was too big to fit into my 3 gallon carboy and too small to fit into my 6 gallon carboy.

Femented WB-06 racked onto Blackberries:
I immediately bought some more blackberries. This is probably my favorite cider ever.

Femented WB-06 racked onto blueberries:
Turned out 'ok', but I realized I am not a huge fan of blueberries.

Femented WB-06 racked into equal parts Rhubarb wine:
Very, very, very good! Rhubarb wine alone is turning out great, almost like a Pinot Giorgio. Mixing it with the cider was a perfect combination.

I also had made some Peach cider from fresh peaches. I racked that on Blackberries and Blueberries too. The peach also got mixed with some strawberry cider and that is very good. The peach and the strawberry were both Montrachet yeast.


EDIT: Oops, forgot to say I drained the last of my 12 gallon batch last night. Of course that does not count the stuff I mixed above. That is waiting for Thanksgiving and Christmas.
Well,

The apple cider went into a keg (5 gallons), I also racked onto 96oz bottles over
Blackberries
Blueberries

and I mixed with some Rhubarb wine I had going but was too big to fit into my 3 gallon carboy and too small to fit into my 6 gallon carboy.

Femented WB-06 racked onto Blackberries:
I immediately bought some more blackberries. This is probably my favorite cider ever.

Femented WB-06 racked onto blueberries:
Turned out 'ok', but I realized I am not a huge fan of blueberries.

Femented WB-06 racked into equal parts Rhubarb wine:
Very, very, very good! Rhubarb wine alone is turning out great, almost like a Pinot Giorgio. Mixing it with the cider was a perfect combination.

I also had made some Peach cider from fresh peaches. I racked that on Blackberries and Blueberries too. The peach also got mixed with some strawberry cider and that is very good. The peach and the strawberry were both Montrachet yeast.


EDIT: Oops, forgot to say I drained the last of my 12 gallon batch last night. Of course that does not count the stuff I mixed above. That is waiting for Thanksgiving and Christmas.
I agree with the blueberries. IMO it's not worth wasting blueberries. Very little flavor comes through. Save them for pancakes.
+1 for blackberries. A lot of flavor comes through. I typically use only 2-3 lbs per 5 gallon batch. The only downside is those damn berries stain everything. Cleaning the keg and tap lines after is a giant pita.

I've never thought to use a wheat beer yeast. I'm anxious to hear more reports.

Thanks for posting.
 
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