Airlock is not bubbling

Yesterday, I tried my hands on making 1.5 gallons of mead. I got all the ingredients ready, did my boil, put my must in my fermentation bucket. And at that point I realized that I forgot to get some wine yeast and the home-brew store is closed. But the day before, I had started a batch of wheat beer which was bubbling away in another fermentation bucket. The spent yeast packet was still sitting there and a had just a small amount of yeast still in it.

I pitched it figuring that the exponential rate of growth would mean that it would work out to be about the same amount of time + a few minutes to a couple of hours at most. It has been 20 hours and there are no bubbles in the airlock. Three questions :

* Is there something wrong in my thinking about pitching the small amount of yeast?

* The home-brew store is closed until Tuesday, which means that the earliest I will be able to get some wine yeast will be more than 72 hour from starting the batch. Is that too late to re-pitch?

* If yes, is there anything I can do at this point to save this batch from spoilage?

Thanks for any help.

Buy yeast on Tuesday.

1. Even a couple of cells would eventually multiply up to a fermentable colony but it would take time. I don't know what type of yeast you're alluding to i.e. liquid or dry but with dry packs 5 grammes is usually enough for up to 5 gallons. Also as you don't mention your recipe I have no way of knowing whether you've used any energiser/nutrient etc. If you regularly make beers its part of the learning curve to find that honey is famously low in non-sugar nutrients.

2. Yes theres no reason why you couldnt just add more of the same yeast. Adding a different one would create some confusion as you would know which one was doing its thing. If you are really concerned, once the HBS reopens try for K1-V1116 as its a good yeast for meads particularly traditionals. Plus its "K" designator tells you it has the killer factor whereby it will become the dominant strain.

3. If you've got the fermenter closed and air locked its unlikely to spoil. Honey is known to be naturally anti-fungal and anti-bacterial hence having to dilute it to get it fermenting. IMO you've already committed a cardinal sin.....you mention boiling. There is no need whatsoever to heat honey and water. In fact you can drive off aromatics and subtle flavouring elements, which might not be an issue if you're gonna add fruit or spices to flavour but if you've paid top dollar for a good varietal honey its money wasted.

Making mediocre meads is easy, making top quality tasting and aromatic meads is harder.

Exponential growth

2 4 16

200mil 400 mil 1.6 bil

Few things...

Amount of honey used? Yeast used? WHY in the name of all that is holy, did you BOIL the must??? Nutrients used and how much?

You're making MEAD here, not beer. The only amount of heat that's needed is to get really thick honey to flow. So really, zero need to get above 100-110F. Before you make another batch, do yourself (and the honey) a favor and read up on the Got Mead forums. Also, ignore the processes in the Joy of HomeBrewing book, when it comes to making mead. In that aspect, the book is complete bunk.

Depending on your OG, it could take more time before you SEE any activity. Doesn't mean nothing's going on in there.

I swear if I see another person post about boiling their honey/must I'm going to go postal.

Nobody go postal, please! Did not know how it was such a sin to boil the honey. This is the first I'm brewing mead (or anything other than beer). Making a note for the next time. I put some aromatic spices in; I guess I can boil them separately the next time and just combine the honey at about 100 degrees. I did not put any nutrients in and the OG was 1.086. I love "Joy of Home Brewing", but I can ignore any information on mead and will read up more. I like the idea of using K1-V1116. Thanks.

Any good notes on aging in case it works out? Is it very much like conditioning beer?

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"If you don't have anything useful to post, STFU" -myself.

PS, I didn't mean to click like on Mike's post. In fact, it was pretty f'ing useless.

I have learned a lot in a few weeks on here from a few knowledgeable and nice people.

As was said honey is hard to spoil.
Do not boil it there is no need and you lose to much good stuff.
Patience is a virtue with mead. That's rough I'm so excited about my first batch I'm gogogogoooo.
Yeast is the most important part. Taking care to do that step right is vital...but can be fixed.
Nutrients and energizer. Yeast has a hard time with just plain honey therefor following 1 tsp nutrient 1/2 tsp energizer per gallon of must can make the difference in how fast your yeast begins to ferment or at all.

Golddiggie is passionate about the art and a great reference tome of knowledge.

fatbloke also has some good knowledge to share. There's TONS of very experience mazers over at the Got Mead forums too. Some can be a bit short, but you have to look past that sometimes (I've needed to on more than one occasion, early on). Even Schramm's book is outdated. He's on the GM boards and has posted this much. Last I knew, the publisher wasn't interested in making a new revision on it, so you can only buy the one with some outdated info in it (boiling the must to name just one).

Ingredient choice, IMO/IME, is very important when you're formulating/making a mead. The honey needs to be one you actually like to eat. It should be strong in flavor, since you'll lose a good amount to both dilution and fermentation. Nutrients are pretty much critical due to the nature of honey. Not adding anything can seriously stress the yeast and/or extend out the fermentation time, plus give some different flavors to the batch.

As for how long to let it age, I have developed my own guidelines for this. I should make a text file so I can just copy/paste it.

<14%, plan on a year from mix to bottling.
14-16%, plan on 12-14 months mix to bottling.
16-18%, plan on 14-18 months mix to bottling.
18-21%, plan on 18-24 months mix to bottling.
21%>, plan at least two years.

These are the guidelines that I've found to work really, really well at least with traditional meads, and the melomel I've made so far.

A quick synopsis of the processes for making mead:
Mix and pitch yeast (add nutrients per schedule/method selected, more info on Got Mead's forums/site).
Degas/aerate until you hit the 1/3 break (the point where 1/3 of the sugars have been consumed). To determine, take the OG subtract .998 SG from it and divide by 3. So, if your OG was 1.100, subtract 0.998, giving you .102. Take 102/3=34*2=68. So, at 1.068, you've hit the 1/3 break. At that point you stop degassing and aerating. If you're using the stepped nutrient method, you also add the final nutrient amounts and walk away. Look at it every week or three until fermentation is complete. If it looks like it is, pull a SG sample and test. Write this down. Come back 1-3 weeks later and take another SG reading. IF there's absolutely ZERO movement, chances are it's done. Depending on the yeast strain used, you can either leave it there until it's convenient to transfer, or do it ASAP (with Lalvin 71B-1122, you want to transfer sooner than later). Set it aside (after the transfer) for 2-4 months. Check on it to see how clear it is and (if needed) transfer again, leaving the lees behind. Repeat as needed/desired. If you go 6+ months between transfers, that can be fine too. Just be sure to not disturb the lees when you go to transfer. If possible, shift it to a place where you'll do the transfer at least a day before hand (a few days, or week is even better).

With the mead you made, drymartini, what yeast did you use? At 1.086, it's really only got the potential to hit about 12% ABV, and go to very dry. If you don't plan on having a DRY mead, you'll want to read up about stabilizing and then back sweetening.

Dust of yeast remnants left over in empty packet will increase exponentially. But from what amount to what amount. If said packet had hundreds of millions of yeast originally or whatever, that exponentially turns into a whole lot of yeast in very little time.

Versus using the remnants of an empty pack.

Basically, you did the opposite of making a yeast starter.

You pretty much went wrong at every turn. And whereas people usually end up saying "relax, it'll work, whatever you did will probably make something drinkable," I actually doubt that in this case. Maybe it will take? Maybe some wild yeast will end up in there and make something? Maybe some sort of honey-impervious bacteria will give it a go? Maybe you just end up with a few gallons of boiled honey?

Maybe just dump it and get a new hobby.

Golddiggie, Thanks.

Mike in sh*t kicking ak, Maybe just blow me.

I'm sure your "airlock not bubbling" is not a serious problem and despite some rather curious decisions this will turn out to be a fine brew!

Relax, don't worry, whatever happens happens! And it's definitely better to ask after the fact rather than reading anything beforehand!

I can tell from all the useful information you've posted that you really know your s*t. I can't believe I confused you for a loser who gets on random forums to pose as an expert.

mike_in_ak said:

Maybe just dump it and get a new hobby.

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Yeah, this is a great way to encourage others to get involved in the hobby...

Maybe you should pour yourself a glass and lighten up

drymartini said:

Golddiggie, Thanks.

Mike in sh*t kicking ak, Maybe just blow me.

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Got any action yet?? I've noticed that you'll sometimes see little bubbles forming on the surface of the must before you get actual airlock movements. Since I'm using sanke kegs these days, I don't look to see if that's the case. I could, but I know things will go active given the right amount of time. Pitching viable yeast, with nutrients in the must, that's not too acidic, will give you fermentation. A 1-4 day delay is not unheard of. I have one that took a couple more days than I expected it to. BUT, it eventually did get going, so it was all good. That one took 3 months to finish fermenting.

I've got action! I opened it today and it's bubbling away (and smells right), but slowly. So much so that I still see nothing in the air lock, but glad it's working. Thanks again!

drymartini said:

I've got action! I opened it today and it's bubbling away (and smells right), but slowly. So much so that I still see nothing in the air lock, but glad it's working. Thanks again!

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Just be patient with this one... Just remember all you've learned for your next batch.

Oh, and plan to start you next batch ASAP. :rockin:

That's good advise. It did turn out to be a positive learning experience and starting a batch as soon as I have a bucket free. In fact, I might do exactly the same thing except I'll follow your procedure (i.e. no boiling and I'll get a more suitable yeast). It might be interesting to compare the two in a few months.

drymartini said:

That's good advise. It did turn out to be a positive learning experience and starting a batch as soon as I have a bucket free. In fact, I might do exactly the same thing except I'll follow your procedure (i.e. no boiling and I'll get a more suitable yeast). It might be interesting to compare the two in a few months.

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Compare them both after a year... IMO, a few months is far too soon.

bsjracing said:

Yeah, this is a great way to encourage others to get involved in the hobby...

Maybe you should pour yourself a glass and lighten up

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I know right! I mean, I totally get the encouragement thing! This guy's obviously a diamond in the rough like everybody else and just needed a little more positivity than my initial replies!

You got me all wrong there mike. I don't need anything positive form you. Just need you to STFU. There are other people, much smarter than you, who got this already. You just go back to your donkey humping or whatever it is that you do in AK.

Who knows, maybe mike's the greatest brew master ever produced by AK and just pretending to be stupid!

Thanks for the vote of confidence! But no donkeys around here! Not sure where you're going there, but I am sure that it makes sense, is funny, and has meaning beyond my simple understanding! Kudos!

I found this helpful article on donkeys, including true wild asses and domesticated donkeys! It certainly doesn't sound like AK, but I'll let you know if I see one!


Geographic Range

True wild asses are found only in northern Africa and the Arabian peninsula, but domesticated and feral donkeys can now be found in all parts of the world. The native range extends from Morocco to Somalia and Mesopotamia to Oman. (Nowak, 1997; The American Donkey and Mule Society, 1998)


Habitat

Domestic donkeys are widely distributed and can be found almost everywhere in the world. However, true wild asses originated in the hilly, undulating deserts of northern Africa and the Arabian peninsula and are well-adapted for life in the desert. Domestic donkeys prefer warm, dry climates and, if left to become feral, they will return to such a habitat, like the feral burros of Death Valley National Park in California. Deserts are characterized by low, unpredictable rainfall and sparse vegetation. (Dossenbach, 1983; Nowak, 1997; Phillips and The Wild Burro Rescue and Preservation Project, 1999; The American Donkey and Mule Society, 1998)

We already know you know how to look sh*t up and pretend to be an expert; no need to show off your typing skills. As for the donkey I was referring to your mother.

Such hostility! First about your math skills and second about your geography skills!

Although the second might not be based so much on geography as on your lack of knowledge about either donkeys or US postal abbreviations!

Math? Ha! Ha!

I just realized what the hell you were doing with your second post. You were trying to give ME a math lesson. As I suspected you're not too bright. You didn't really understand my question.

You see, until nutrients are exhausted, yeast doubles in population at a fixed rate of time. This, just so you know (and do spread the word in AK), is known as an exponential rate of growth. So, if that rate is, lets say 20 minutes, and I put in, say 1/16 of the yeast I would normally put, in it would take about 60 minutes to catch up to the normal amount of yeast I would put in. Meaning, I would've been behind by 60 minutes only and not by a factor of 1/16.

That's what I meant when I said, "I pitched it figuring that the exponential rate of growth would mean that it would work out to be about the same amount of time + a few minutes to a couple of hours at most".

Now tell me more about your hillbilly state, 'cus I really give a crap.

Girls, you're both pretty. Now go and play nice or you'll both be in 'time out'... :fro:

No problem. I'm done with this guy.

Upon further review, I do regret bringing his mother into this. I take that back. And I'm sure there are some nice people in AK. I even know some hillbillies who're cool. I take back nothing else.

drymartini said:

Upon further review, I do regret bringing his mother into this. I take that back. And I'm sure there are some nice people in AK. I even know some hillbillies who're cool. I take back nothing else.

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Ummm... You do know what state he's in, right??? Not many hillbillies there (if any actually). But plenty of manly men that could probably do scary things (for others at least) without blinking.

drymartini said:

Math? Ha! Ha!

I just realized what the hell you were doing with your second post. You were trying to give ME a math lesson. As I suspected you're not too bright. You didn't really understand my question.

You see, until nutrients are exhausted, yeast doubles in population at a fixed rate of time. This, just so you know (and do spread the word in AK), is known as an exponential rate of growth. So, if that rate is, lets say 20 minutes, and I put in, say 1/16 of the yeast I would normally put, in it would take about 60 minutes to catch up to the normal amount of yeast I would put in. Meaning, I would've been behind by 60 minutes only and not by a factor of 1/16.

That's what I meant when I said, "I pitched it figuring that the exponential rate of growth would mean that it would work out to be about the same amount of time + a few minutes to a couple of hours at most".

Now tell me more about your hillbilly state, 'cus I really give a crap.

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I'm so mad my airlock is not bubbling!

mike_in_ak said:

Buy yeast on Tuesday.

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I'm so mad Mike said that I should buy yeast on Tuesday when I asked if I should buy yeast on Tuesday!

drymartini said:

We already know you know how to look sh*t up

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I'm so mad at the Internet!

“A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.”-Douglas Adams

What does it have to do with this thread? Absolutely nothing,but then again this thread has long since had anything to do with the original topic....

Cheers!

drymartini said:

You got me all wrong there mike. I don't need anything positive form you. Just need you to STFU. There are other people, much smarter than you, who got this already. You just go back to your donkey humping or whatever it is that you do in AK.

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I'm so mad that I get donkeys confused with polar bears!

mike_in_ak said:

I'm so mad that I get donkeys confused with polar bears!

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That could hurt considering what some people try to do with donkeys (not advisable with polar bears )...

I lived in AK for 15 years...now I'm a hillbilly....anyways lets play nice.

Here in Scotland we don't have donkeys or polar bears but we do have sheep