Easy Stove-Top Pasteurizing - With Pics
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My question is this. After you bottle the cider and then after you pasteurize it, won't there be sediment in the bottles? I mean, there has to be yeast there to carbonate the cider and then you kill it. Won't it settle out and leave a mess in the bottom of each bottle?
OP
OP
Yes, in any bottle conditioned beer or cider, there is a fine layer of yeast dust on the bottom of the bottle. Pasteurizing has nothing to do with that - its the nature of bottle conditioning, a small mini-fermentation in the bottle. Some commercial beers are bottle conditioned, too, like Sierra Nevada, its not just a homebrew thing.
With bottle conditioned beer or cider, you store the bottles upright and when pouring, leave the final 1/4 inch of beer or cider in the bottle.
Does this help?
UncaMarc said:
Correct. In most cases, the sediment is rather small for a bottle-conditioned beer or cider. This is because most of the yeast has already fallen out of suspension in the Carboy after finishing its job. Only a small portion of the yeast makes it into each bottle. This may not be the case if you plan to bottle and stop a fermentation that is still chugging away. In tis case, a good deal of the yeast will still be in suspension and will make it into the bottles. Most people recommend cold crashing in the fermenter before bottling in this situation. Most of the yeast will fall out and you will avoid the large cake of sediment in your bottles, but it will also slow the carbonation process. Hope that helps.
Hi Pappers, in a much earlier post you said, "Have you considered letting the cider ferment to dry, then adding both sugar to carbonate and non-fermentable sweetener (like splenda) to backsweeten? No need to pasteurize then. "
That is what I'm planning on doing, but does that mean I can keep the bottles un-opened for, say, a few months, without creating bombs? Thank you and congrats on all the great posts.
That is what I'm planning on doing, but does that mean I can keep the bottles un-opened for, say, a few months, without creating bombs? Thank you and congrats on all the great posts.
CollegeCider
Well-Known Member
I think the reasoning this happened is because you probably bottled them while the cider was still cold, and when the air(which condenses when cold) warmed up, it expanded and "force carbed" the cider as it came to room temperature. The only problem with this that I can see is you will be forcing oxygen into the cider as well instead of CO2 which I have only heard bad things about.
OP
OP
Hi, yes they will be fine, if you really let the fermentation finish (let the yeast eat up all the apple sugars) and then prime with only enough sugar to carbonate the bottles. For a great explanation of this, take a look at www.makinghardcider.com
OP
OP
I don't know what temp and time is required to kill lacto and I don't know the affect of this kind of pasteurizing on beer, sorry.
andymonkey
Member
Nice tutorial!
Question: Do the bottle have to be submerged until the neck? I plan on using 22 oz bottles (from Crispin Sake Cider). I don't have a pot tall enough to submerge the bottles until the neck.
Question: Do the bottle have to be submerged until the neck? I plan on using 22 oz bottles (from Crispin Sake Cider). I don't have a pot tall enough to submerge the bottles until the neck.
HauserHooch
Member
I just did this yesterday with swing top bottles and it worked perfectly! I used both 16 ounce and 32 ounce ones. For the 32 i gave it a few extra minutes in the bath.
HauserHooch
Member
190 isnt going to be enough to melt them.
HauserHooch
Member
the_ginger_ninja
Member
For what it's worth, pasteurising in standard PET bottles is not recommended.
From the point of of view of safety, there are some plastic bottles that will leech the chemicals in to the product when they are subjected to heat. From the point of view of just usability while heat may not melt them they may become slightly maleable. Combined with the pressure of the carbonation and you could find that the bottles bulge, or most likely that the bottom of the bottle pops out which is kind of interesting!
Bottles designed for pasteurisation in plastic are called 'hot fill', and they're what the fresh juices are bottled in to as the juice is heated to 85-90 centigrade and bottled at that temperature to pasteurise. Here in the UK they're impossible to buy for a small guy, but in the States where they're manufactured you may have more luck.
Lastly, unless you're buying very specific niche plastic with a special oxygen barrier layer inbuilt in to the bottle then believe it or not the plastic is actually porous. If you look at a bottle of coke etc you'll find that it actually has a pretty short shelf-life of only a few months. That's not because it'll go off (the contents are almost all man-made) but because the fizz will disappear pretty quickly! If you're bottling something that's oxygen sensitive like beer etc then the reverse is true that ultimately it will allow some air in.
Now, this is all the theory. I have very little experience in bottling in to plastic, but I thought I'd share. It's entirely possible that all will be OK, but at least if you know what the potential pitfalls are then you know what to look out for.
daughterofthesun
Member
LOVE this idea! And all I have to do in order to get it right is drink a bottle of my cider every day? SOLD!
jeremybrooks
Member
Or, let it go and check it ever couple of months.... Maybe sour pumpkin ale is a good thing!
Everyone has said that. I just don't want to drink a pumpkin ale in January. I bottled it. It's carbonated great and am drinking it without a sour taste at all so far. I'm just gonna drink it quick so i dont get bottle bombs and maybe try brewing it again in a week or so.
Once you open up a test bottle...is that bottle now toast?
Nope just recap it and open a different one next time.
highgravitybacon
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So let's talk about the physiological response to exploding bottles. Specifically the wet, hollow pop when a 16oz bottle detonated 1 foot from your wiener. It invokes a strong desire to empty ones bowels directly into an unacceptable space -- the undergarment.
I know this because that's how I felt when one, no, it was two, bottles exploded. Not because the process is flawed. No, instead I thought I was canning tomatoes or something. What you don't want to do is blanche the bottles in an ice water bath.
Look, you don't need to tell me. Its a bad idea. Little self said, "hey maybe you should do this." Big self said, "Shut up nancy boy. We're going to chill this crap right now."
So when the steamer basket with 10 hot ciders went into the ice water, it took all of maybe 3 seconds before one exploded sending bits of glass and hot cider all over, then before I could even think, think of saying WTF!? a second exploded.
My advice would be to not do that.
I know this because that's how I felt when one, no, it was two, bottles exploded. Not because the process is flawed. No, instead I thought I was canning tomatoes or something. What you don't want to do is blanche the bottles in an ice water bath.
Look, you don't need to tell me. Its a bad idea. Little self said, "hey maybe you should do this." Big self said, "Shut up nancy boy. We're going to chill this crap right now."
So when the steamer basket with 10 hot ciders went into the ice water, it took all of maybe 3 seconds before one exploded sending bits of glass and hot cider all over, then before I could even think, think of saying WTF!? a second exploded.
My advice would be to not do that.
the_ginger_ninja
Member
Water at 20 degrees C will be fine, lower than that and you risk a vast thermal shock and the explosions you mention. We drop our 73 degree bottles in to water at 20 at it's fine. At your own risk of course.
anywhereout
Member
This thread is an internet gem. Thank you for keeping it alive! I have looked unsuccessfully for a gauge to monitor in-bottle pressure while pasteurizing in a hot water bath. Does anybody know if this is available, and if so where? I've just started using this technique, and it's working so far but could be made immensely safer with a pressure gauge. I see several do it yourself options that look easy enough, but just curious to know if there is anything on the market. I've worked out a diagram for a gauge that can be attached to a standard beer bottle and reused, but don't want to jump through the hoops of making it if it's already out there somewhere!
Thanks!
Thanks!
anywhereout
Member
A quick note for those looking for more anecdotal data before they make the plunge to pasteurization ala Pappers, and a heads up for those of you using a particularly aggressive yeast.
Just pasteurized a batch of very sweet girly-pop style cider. (hey its for the holidays...-cough-...really!)
OG 1.062
FG 1.020
cider = store bought pasteurized from concentrate
yeast = Lalvin ec-1118
sugar = brown sugar to 1.062
other = 1/8th tsp cinnamon per gallon
fermentation = 3 days(ec-1118 freight train baby!)
bottle carbonated = 3 hours @ 73 degrees
pasteurization water = 190 degrees then removed from heat and covered for 15 minutes.
That's right, it bottle carbonated in 3 hours. Theres nowhere in my house cooler, and the yeast is a beast with so much sugar remaining in the bottle. I expect a pretty sizable yeast cake.
Total time from pitching yeast to pasteurized bottles....4 days.
Been lurking on these forums for a long time, thanks again for all the info you long time posters have contributed.:rockin:
Just pasteurized a batch of very sweet girly-pop style cider. (hey its for the holidays...-cough-...really!)
OG 1.062
FG 1.020
cider = store bought pasteurized from concentrate
yeast = Lalvin ec-1118
sugar = brown sugar to 1.062
other = 1/8th tsp cinnamon per gallon
fermentation = 3 days(ec-1118 freight train baby!)
bottle carbonated = 3 hours @ 73 degrees
pasteurization water = 190 degrees then removed from heat and covered for 15 minutes.
That's right, it bottle carbonated in 3 hours. Theres nowhere in my house cooler, and the yeast is a beast with so much sugar remaining in the bottle. I expect a pretty sizable yeast cake.
Total time from pitching yeast to pasteurized bottles....4 days.
Been lurking on these forums for a long time, thanks again for all the info you long time posters have contributed.:rockin:
highgravitybacon
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Mine went pretty quick too. However, if I had to do it over again I would let the cider ferment completely out, cold crash, then back sweeten to 1.010 or so and THEN bottle and pasteurize. The 3 days I let it go wasn't quite enough. There still was a fair amount of yeast in suspension (I used safbrew s-33) and as a result the ciders currently have an odd yeasty unpleasantness to them.
Oh well. It's like 6.9% abv so there's plenty of punch to make you forget about the yeasty flavor.
Just and FYI about the exploding bottle reply. I was mowing the lawn today and found a razor sharp bottle neck that was from the exploding bottle series. It flew about 20 feet away. Not bad.
ChrisVZ
Well-Known Member
Im getting ready to bottle and pasteurize my first batch of cider. I ran an experiment (and posted the results below) to figure out the temps that would be reached inside the bottle. My question is, how hot do I need to get my cider to kill the yeast (nottingham ale)? If I need to get my temps higher, I can remove 2 and use more water.
Results from my experiment:
8 - 22oz. Bottles
2.5 gallons of water
I filled my bottles with 65* water, added them to the hot water bath @190*.
Every 5 mins, I removed a different bottle, inverted it several times to mix, and took a temperature reading. Re-capped the bottle, and returned it to the bath.
Bottle temp. Bath temp.
@5 min 124 150
@10 min 133 143
@15 min 135 140
@20 min 138 140
Results from my experiment:
8 - 22oz. Bottles
2.5 gallons of water
I filled my bottles with 65* water, added them to the hot water bath @190*.
Every 5 mins, I removed a different bottle, inverted it several times to mix, and took a temperature reading. Re-capped the bottle, and returned it to the bath.
Bottle temp. Bath temp.
@5 min 124 150
@10 min 133 143
@15 min 135 140
@20 min 138 140
anywhereout
Member
I agree with you on cold crashing and back sweetening (and starting with just enough sugar to get the desired ABV). My next sweet/carbonated batch will go that route. Now I'm hoping the dead yeast drops out of suspension with time. But you're right, if you pound the first one your tastebuds dont notice the yeast flavor :cross: learning....learning...
anywhereout
Member
I would go minimum 140 bottle temp, sustained for at least 6 minutes to be safe and not pasteurizing allllllll day long, but if you can't get that temperature in bottle you can do it by sustaining 130 for a longer period of time (this is safer also). increasing your volume of water per bottle is your best bet for getting more heat into the bottles before the entire bath cools so i would look to that first. (I have little experience pasteurizing cider, but lots of canning). looking for the chart that has times per temperature...i know its here somewhere...
also keep in mind removing the lid 4 times in 20 minutes and reintroducing a bottle that slightly cooled during measurements will impact water temperature. I pull my pot off the burner, cover and put a dry bathroom towel over it
ChrisVZ
Well-Known Member
So, 140 for 6 min. Thanks. I knew someone knew the answer, just couldnt find it. Looks like I will be using 3 gal. of water and only doing 6 at a time.
Are people still heating their water up above 140, then inserting their cider with the assumption it will fall?
I still can't understand why you would do that. Here's what I did last night:
1. put bottles in a pot
2. fill pot with hottest water out of the tap
3. heat pot on stove to 140
4. leave it there for a while
I assume this will work as long as #4 is long enough. Heating up hot water just to drop cold glass into it is a bad idea. Heating glass too fast isn't as dangerous as cooling it too fast, but it definitely doesn't help, especially when the contents are under pressure, and I don't see a reason for it.
"Glass containers should not be subjected to excessive "thermal shock"; when heating products in glass containers, it is recommended that the thermal shock temperature difference be kept below 20C and under no condition to exceed 40C. When cooling a hot product in a glass container, temperatures are more critical; 10C is a desitable maximum and under no conditions should the temperature change exceed 20C"
Source: Handbook of Food Preservation, Second Edition
I still can't understand why you would do that. Here's what I did last night:
1. put bottles in a pot
2. fill pot with hottest water out of the tap
3. heat pot on stove to 140
4. leave it there for a while
I assume this will work as long as #4 is long enough. Heating up hot water just to drop cold glass into it is a bad idea. Heating glass too fast isn't as dangerous as cooling it too fast, but it definitely doesn't help, especially when the contents are under pressure, and I don't see a reason for it.
"Glass containers should not be subjected to excessive "thermal shock"; when heating products in glass containers, it is recommended that the thermal shock temperature difference be kept below 20C and under no condition to exceed 40C. When cooling a hot product in a glass container, temperatures are more critical; 10C is a desitable maximum and under no conditions should the temperature change exceed 20C"
Source: Handbook of Food Preservation, Second Edition
anywhereout
Member
I heat my water over 140 because I don't believe the cider temperature would reach high enough to sterilize the yeast otherwise. the bottles and water coming to equilibrium would drop the water bath to a temperature too low to get the job done. Also, room temperature in my house is 75 degrees, and my tap water (which i run over the bottles first to pre-heat) is 130 degrees F. I have no cracked bottles from temperature so far. If I could start with water at 140 and keep it at 140 while the internal bottle temperature rose and sat at 140, I would do that. just not practical for me though without applying direct heat to the pot while bottles are in it. curious to see if you get bottle bombs over a period of a few months or more! Yeast type and racking could also be a factor here as well.
Anyone ever use a cooler to do more bottles at a time? Did you follow the OPs instructions step for step?
anywhereout
Member
I'm not sure why that never occurred to me to try this. boil a bunch of water, pour in cooler, add bottles? Is that what you are thinking when you say use a cooler? Great idea for coolers that handle heat.
update to my last yeasty batch: yeast has dropped out of suspension and cider is damn delicious after some short term bottle 'aging', as long as you pour carefully. any funkiness from super quick fermentation times is no longer present and carbonation is just right for my taste. I also find if you get just a touch of yeast in the pour, it tastes like pie crust. yum.
Yea I was thinking of using my mash tun and another cooler. I figured I can do nearly the whole batch at one time instead of spending an hour and a half over my stove.
highgravitybacon
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anywhereout said:
You could do a decoction pasteurization to avoid thermal shock. Loved the idea of using the cooler. Seems dramatically better than room temp pressurized bottles onto hot hot liquid.
aubiecat
Well-Known Member
I am about to get into the hard cider. I had some Angry Orchard hard cider and I am hooked. 
I am glad I read this whole thread. One thing that occurred to me is that I can use my BIAB rig to do the pasteurization. I am going to fill the kettle with bottles to see how many I can get in there at once.
I don't know why you couldn't load the cider filled bottles into an ambient temperature filled kettle, turn the heat and the pump on. Wait for the heat alarm to go off then set the timer for 20 minutes. Doing it that way will give a more consistent temperature throughout the bottles so you could probably use a lower temp setting.
I am glad I read this whole thread. One thing that occurred to me is that I can use my BIAB rig to do the pasteurization. I am going to fill the kettle with bottles to see how many I can get in there at once.
I don't know why you couldn't load the cider filled bottles into an ambient temperature filled kettle, turn the heat and the pump on. Wait for the heat alarm to go off then set the timer for 20 minutes. Doing it that way will give a more consistent temperature throughout the bottles so you could probably use a lower temp setting.
OP
OP
I am about to get into the hard cider. I had some Angry Orchard hard cider and I am hooked.
I am glad I read this whole thread. One thing that occurred to me is that I can use my BIAB rig to do the pasteurization. I am going to fill the kettle with bottles to see how many I can get in there at once.
I don't know why you couldn't load the cider filled bottles into an ambient temperature filled kettle, turn the heat and the pump on. Wait for the heat alarm to go off then set the timer for 20 minutes. Doing it that way will give a more consistent temperature throughout the bottles so you could probably use a lower temp setting.
Using an electric element, you mean? That seems fine to me.
Safa
Well-Known Member
Thats not a bad idea!
Did my first batch yesterday Pappers. Did 8 bottles, lost one (complete explosion) and one had a leaky cap (but didn't leak liquid afterwards? Might be ok I suppose)
Thanks for this post!
Did my first batch yesterday Pappers. Did 8 bottles, lost one (complete explosion) and one had a leaky cap (but didn't leak liquid afterwards? Might be ok I suppose)
Thanks for this post!
So I just want to make sure my pasteurization went ok. Heated water til just short of boiling (no thermometer that goes over 150*F). While this was going, had my bottles soaking in another pot of hot tap water. Didn't bother checking temp, just wanted to warm them up from my cold garage. The smaller bottles went in the pot, stove was turned off and they sat almost covered to the top for ~13min. Ditto with my 22oz bottles. I ran a test bottle of water and 20minutes after taking it out, the temp inside was still over 150*. So I should be fine, right? So far so good, no explosions...last 6 22oz bottles in the pot now.
OP
OP
sounds good to me!
