Yeast Starters - 2 or 1

BrewSwag 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
T

the75

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2012
Messages
301
Reaction score
34
Location
San Marcos
I have one magnetic stir plate, two 2L Pyrex Flasks, & two packets of WYeast 1056. I will be using both packets of WYeast for my batch, BUT my questions is this: When I make the starters, would I be better served trying to cram everything into one flask on a stir plate or separate them, one in each flask. If they are separated, I will only be able to put one on the stir plate & the other will sit idle. I'm leaning towards using two flasks, even though only one will sit on a stir plate, but wanted to see what the pros thought. :fro: Thanks in advance for any opinions.
 
Gravity of your brew? And what cell count you shooting for? Mrmalty or yeastcalc are good tools.
Why 2 packs?
 
Yes, definitely use 2, 2L starters, your yield will be much better...if you can alternate them on the stir plate periodically that might help you out.....oxygenate if you can also.

You should end up with about 450 billion cells using (2) 2L starters.
 
kapbrew13 said:
Gravity of your brew? And what cell count you shooting for? Mrmalty or yeastcalc are good tools.
Why 2 packs?
Click to expand...

Original Gravity - 1.090
Final Gravity - 1.012
I don't know about cell counts, but two packets were recommended when I researched the recipe.
 
helibrewer said:
Yes, definitely use 2, 2L starters, your yield will be much better...if you can alternate them on the stir plate periodically that might help you out.....oxygenate if you can also.

You should end up with about 450 billion cells using (2) 2L starters.
Click to expand...
That's a good idea, I'm just worried about contamination in removing & replacing the stir rod since I only have one. I'm new, so I'm really freaking out about starting the yeast & contamination. I might even wear a condom on brewday. :drunk:
 
If you can track down another magnet use it to "grab" the stir bar and work it up the side of the flask to remove it....quick rinse in sanitizer and drop it in the other flask.....

1.090....boy, I would think about a 3rd packet if you can get one. I'm pretty sure you are goiing to want over 500 billion with that OG, but 1056 is a great, high attenuating yeast.
 
helibrewer said:
If you can track down another magnet use it to "grab" the stir bar and work it up the side of the flask to remove it....quick rinse in sanitizer and drop it in the other flask.....

1.090....boy, I would think about a 3rd packet if you can get one. I'm pretty sure you are goiing to want over 500 billion with that OG, but 1056 is a great, high attenuating yeast.
Click to expand...

See, that was my original thinking to get 3 packets for this one, but I scaled back to 2. I was thinking that I would have two stir plates, but I've only come up with one & I can't wait any longer. I appreciate the retrieval idea! I will do that! Thanks.
 
Assuming a 5.25 gallon batch at 1.090. You need 321 billions cells.
Make a 1l starter with stir plate and 1 vial. That will give you 225 billion cells.
Cool and decant liquid, then make a full 2l starter, which will end up with 489 billions cells.
All you need is 1 vial and time to grow the yeast.
 
Use the Mr Malty calculator. If you follow it, you'll see, you can dump 2 packs into a 1-1.9L starter to get the 320 billion cells needed. It depends on the viability.

Or you can use the Wyeast pitch rate calculator.
 
the75 said:
I don't know about cell counts, but two packets were recommended when I researched the recipe.
Click to expand...

The date on the packages will tell you when the yeast was produced, and from that, depending on the age, will give you the approximate viability(or, how many cells are still alive starting @ 100billion from day one)
 
I don't like putting more than a 1.25 liters in my flask. I'll do 1.5 but I try to avoid it. I've made some nasty messes with my starters before. It seems to be the messiest when I step them up.

If I were doing this, I would make 2 separate starters. I would keep the first in the fridge in a pop bottle while the second was working away. I would also probably use yeast from the first starter rather than use a second vial for the second starter.

I like to make all of my starters a week ahead of time and then keep them in a pop bottle in the fridge so I can decant.

With an OG that high you want to miss high, not low, on the amount of yeast you pitch.
 
1 starter, 1 vial. Make a 1.5L starter on the stir plate and you should be pretty close to the required number of cells recommended.
 
itsme6582 said:
I don't like putting more than a 1.25 liters in my flask. I'll do 1.5 but I try to avoid it. I've made some nasty messes with my starters before. It seems to be the messiest when I step them up.

If I were doing this, I would make 2 separate starters. I would keep the first in the fridge in a pop bottle while the second was working away. I would also probably use yeast from the first starter rather than use a second vial for the second starter.

I like to make all of my starters a week ahead of time and then keep them in a pop bottle in the fridge so I can decant.

With an OG that high you want to miss high, not low, on the amount of yeast you pitch.
Click to expand...
This answered one of the concerns I had about putting too much liquid in my starter. That is why I was thinking of using two starters with less fluid. If I start one starter, then have it sitting in the fridge while the second gets going, won't the first starter start to lose it's cell count?
 
the75 said:
This answered one of the concerns I had about putting too much liquid in my starter. That is why I was thinking of using two starters with less fluid. If I start one starter, then have it sitting in the fridge while the second gets going, won't the first starter start to lose it's cell count?
Click to expand...

If you wait weeks to use it. Why 2 vials again?
 
Why not just use 2 smack packs in 1.5L of wort on a stir plate? I used to boil wort in the flask (a 2L). The first time I got crazy boil over. Then I used FermCap foam control still had some boil over. That helped. Now I boil the wort in a sauce pan then pour it in the flask.
 
I'm not going to wait weeks to use it. That's why I asked the question about losing cell count if I waited to get the second one going. I will be making both packets at once, just need to decide if I should use them both in the same flask like jetmac is suggesting. Either way, I'm going to use both packets because of itsme652's line of thought: rather go too high than too low. I wants me gravity!
 
the75 said:
I'm not going to wait weeks to use it. That's why I asked the question about losing cell count if I waited to get the second one going. I will be making both packets at once, just need to decide if I should use them both in the same flask like jetmac is suggesting. Either way, I'm going to use both packets because of itsme652's line of thought: rather go too high than too low. I wants me gravity!
Click to expand...

I'm just giving you the facts. Please check out MrMalty or the Wyeast yeast calculator, There really is no reason to make 2 starters. You can even step it up if you have a few days. Make your 1.5L starter with the 2 packs, let it work at least 12 hours but not more than 36. Let the yeast drop then decant and pitch that into another 1.5L, You'll have more than enough yeast.
 
jetmac said:
I'm just giving you the facts. Please check out MrMalty or the Wyeast yeast calculator, There really is no reason to make 2 starters. You can even step it up if you have a few days. Make your 1.5L starter with the 2 packs, let it work at least 12 hours but not more than 36. Let the yeast drop then decant and pitch that into another 1.5L, You'll have more than enough yeast.
Click to expand...

I definitely appreciate your help, everyone's for that matter. I was responding to kapbrew's comment about waiting two weeks to use it & the 2 vials question. I'm totally new, so I have very little idea of what will be best & I'm still trying to decide. Is that how I step it up? By starting a starter, decanting, then starting it again? That sounds like it would be my best bet.
 
Oh yeah, I will check out the calculators & get familiar with them. Thanks for having to come back to this so many times. If you're anything like me, you frustrate easily when trying to explain things to people who don't know. Thank you for your patience.
 
the75 said:
Is that how I step it up? By starting a starter, decanting, then starting it again? That sounds like it would be my best bet.
Click to expand...

Yes, when I have time I start w/1 smack pack. I make a 2L starter(I have a 4L flask) Let it "ferment out". Stick it in the fridge to get the yeasties to drop out then I have in the neighborhood of 150bil-200bil yeasties (depending on viability). Decant and pitch that into another 2L starter. It doesn't always double and there is a limit as to how much yeast you can grow. All this takes 4 or 5 days or so.

This saves money and can help develop yeast character, but because it takes time, you need to have a solid plan for when you want to brew. The yeast can't sit around in the fridge very long after the starter is started.

You can even use this process to "harvest" yeast from a bottle of beer. Although you start w/ a smaller starter

Here is a simple video from BillyBrew that will give you the basics.
 
jetmac said:
Yes, when I have time I start w/1 smack pack. I make a 2L starter(I have a 4L flask) Let it "ferment out". Stick it in the fridge to get the yeasties to drop out then I have in the neighborhood of 150bil-200bil yeasties (depending on viability). Decant and pitch that into another 2L starter. It doesn't always double and there is a limit as to how much yeast you can grow. All this takes 4 or 5 days or so.

This saves money and can help develop yeast character, but because it takes time, you need to have a solid plan for when you want to brew. The yeast can't sit around in the fridge very long after the starter is started.

You can even use this process to "harvest" yeast from a bottle of beer. Although you start w/ a smaller starter

Here is a simple video from BillyBrew that will give you the basics.
Click to expand...

+1 million
 
jetmac said:
Yes, when I have time I start w/1 smack pack. I make a 2L starter(I have a 4L flask) Let it "ferment out". Stick it in the fridge to get the yeasties to drop out then I have in the neighborhood of 150bil-200bil yeasties (depending on viability). Decant and pitch that into another 2L starter. It doesn't always double and there is a limit as to how much yeast you can grow. All this takes 4 or 5 days or so.

This saves money and can help develop yeast character, but because it takes time, you need to have a solid plan for when you want to brew. The yeast can't sit around in the fridge very long after the starter is started.

You can even use this process to "harvest" yeast from a bottle of beer. Although you start w/ a smaller starter

Here is a simple video from BillyBrew that will give you the basics.
Click to expand...

You ARE the man! Your description is in layman's terms that this noobie can understand. I really appreciate it. One question: With 2 packets & 1.5 liters in a 2 liter flask, do you think I will have enough room when things really get going? Again, really appreciate your help. Outside of contamination concerns, I'm most concerned with ensuring good yeast pitching. Originally, I wanted to rush right into brewing, but now I'm fact gathering the best I can to avoid as many errors as possible.
 

Similar threads

H
Yeast starter not starting
Replies
16
Views
984
HB2112
H
x3la
1 pack of liquid yeast to create 2 starters
Replies
8
Views
1K
CascadesBrewer
CascadesBrewer
T
Settling time for yeast starter in Refrigerator?
Replies
13
Views
1K
VikeMan
VikeMan
E
Dbl batch... Different gravities?
Replies
14
Views
679
electric brewing for me
E
ILMSTMF
Inconsistent success using Fermcap-S
Replies
11
Views
1K
ILMSTMF
ILMSTMF
CornyKegs 300

Latest posts

Back
Top