Help me understand GF Brewing!

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fatduck

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I don't post a lot, so let my preface this with this. Thanks!

Okay, here's the deal. I work at a homebrew shop, a big one. And lately I have been getting a lot of questions about GF brewing. The only thing I can do is shrug.

I know we have sorghum LME, but I don't know how to suggest its use. Hops are GF right? What about yeast, the liquid especially has some gluten in it, right?

Any advice info that would help me help people with gluten allergies would be great. I just want to be able to help everyone make better beer.

Again thanks to this community!
 
The Sorghum Extract is basically used in place of regular Malt Extract. Yes hops are GF. As far as yeast, I think most, if not all, are under the limit for ppm to be GF (someone that knows for sure please chime in), however, SafAle yeast are completely gluten free, so I would suggest using those. I've heard using just Sorghum extract can end up being fairly sweet, so increasing bitterness and using GF grains for steeping is ideal, however it will still be decent beer without extra steeping grains.

Also, if people are brewing a GF beer for someone, and they have brewed other beers on the equipment, tell them to sanitize the crap out of EVERYTHING, even preboil. I don't know if that would reduce the gluten still on equipment or not, but it can't hurt. If someone was very allergic to gluten and wanted a GF beer, I wouldn't use used equipment for that. But people that are not highly allergic, it should be fine.

Hope that helps.

This site has some GF grains, although with shipping the price ends up being pretty steep.
http://www.bobsredmill.com/gluten-free/
 
Gluten basically comes from barley, wheat, oats, and rye. Gluten is measured in parts per million and anything under 20ppm is classified as "Gluten Free'. Some people are OK with this and some are much more sensitive. The only yeast I know of the is GF is the Danstar cause it says so on the packet.

I made a beer with just the sorghum extract and I thought that it came out rather well, much like a real German hef. My gluten intolerant friends thought that it was a really good GF beer too, much better than anything commercial she had bought. The thing to remember is that just as with a barley and wheat beer a sorghum beer will be a different. A good beer but different.
 
I don't post a lot, so let my preface this with this. Thanks!

Okay, here's the deal. I work at a homebrew shop, a big one. And lately I have been getting a lot of questions about GF brewing. The only thing I can do is shrug.

I know we have sorghum LME, but I don't know how to suggest its use. Hops are GF right? What about yeast, the liquid especially has some gluten in it, right?

Any advice info that would help me help people with gluten allergies would be great. I just want to be able to help everyone make better beer.

Again thanks to this community!

Welcome! You could always point them in the direction of the Homebrewtalk forum :D

The other two guys made some good points and I'll probably reiterate: Us gluten free brewers cannot use the malt extract or the grains that other brewers are used to using- we have to use the sorghum syrup or a gluten free brown rice syrup. As far as specialty grains go, we going to have to make our own, which involves roasting/malting and roasting. Furthermore- as far as I have confirmed, the Danstar and Lallemand (sp?) dry yeasts are gluten free. One of the liquid yeast labs had 2 gluten free yeasts way back when but they have stopped producing them. I've heard you can use a liquid yeast and just harvest after primary, but I'm not sure how comfortable I am with that.

A basic gluten free recipe would replace any malt extract with sorghum syrup and any specialty grains with gluten free grains that have been roasted. Use the same hop schedule or bump it up. I've noticed that some gluten free beers have a residual sorghum-y taste, but I'm working on getting rid of that. Some others might know...

Just some quick links

Gluten Free Beer: Good News & Bad News


Gluten Free Brewing Observations

:off: Do you work perhaps at Midwest?
 
Since you're a brewshop, here is system/flow-chart I would recommend you do to keep things easy.
GFBrewingFlowchart.png


Couple of points:
-Replace all LME with a combination of sorghum LME and rice/tapioca extract
--I would use a ratio of 3 to 1 for light-bodied beers, and 6 to 1 for heavier beers...fudge the numbers in between.
-Specialty grain equivalents are not set in stone, just based on my empirical testing.
-Hops are gluten free
-Liquid Yeast vs. Dry Yeast argument is still up for debate. For a total newb or somebody making it for a friend give them dry yeast, for a bit more experienced brewers, let them make the choice themselves.

PS
I made this chart myself using Lucidchart, feel free to let me know if you think there are any edits it needs. But I think this could serve as a great starting point for new GF Brewers. Are you allowed to request something of your own to be made sticky?
 
One of the liquid yeast labs had 2 gluten free yeasts way back when but they have stopped producing them.

:off: Do you work perhaps at Midwest?

You are thinking of Wyeast. And yes, now no Wyeast yeasts are considered GF. White labs are below the european standard for GF (there isn't an American one), as described in the above flow chart.

And I am going with Northern Brewer.
 
I've noticed that some gluten free beers have a residual sorghum-y taste, but I'm working on getting rid of that. Some others might know...

I'm sorry I just don't see any reason to do that. Sure it tastes different than a barley beer, but it is still beer. Just a little different flavor. I say that we hold sorghum based beer on the same level as others and embrace the flavor differences, not try to hide them.
 
I'm sorry I just don't see any reason to do that. Sure it tastes different than a barley beer, but it is still beer. Just a little different flavor. I say that we hold sorghum based beer on the same level as others and embrace the flavor differences, not try to hide them.

Most people who have had barley based beer before don't like sorghum flavor, but those who haven't like it fine. That is why you find most people trying to disguise it.

There is something to be said for sorghum on it's own, but it is mostly used to get celiac disease-having folk back to drinking as 'normal' of beer as possible. I don't think anyone here will fault you for making sorghum beer that tastes like sorghum, but for many the challenge is to make barley-tasting beer without barley.
 
Have a look at my post here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f164/can-anyone-describe-tast-gf-beer-138192/index3.html

This is my first G/F batch, nothing much to it, and it is delicious. Beer is a "big tent" - there is enough variation in (excuse the term) "normal" beers that there is no compelling need to worry about whether sorghum based beers taste like them or not. Mine stands on its own, and there was nothing all that special about my process or recipe. The key has been to be patient (where have I heard that before) and let it age. The citrus flavor that was very prominent early on faded away first, and the somewhat bitter aftertaste is mostly gone also, leaving only a slightly bitter savor (not a bad thing).

There is no real need, in my opinion, to make special allowances for sorghum taste or worry much about whether it tastes like a barley based beer. In my opinion, it stands just fine on its own.
 
There is no real need, in my opinion, to make special allowances for sorghum taste or worry much about whether it tastes like a barley based beer. In my opinion, it stands just fine on its own.

Time definitely helps.

I have a pumpkin GF spice ale that is about 3 months old now and there is no trace of sorghum flavors in the beer anymore.

I also have a belgian tripel (much lighter in flavor) that is about 4 months old and still tastes of sorghum.

As to your recipe, most people would consider 4oz of hops in a 5gal recipe trying to 'hide' the sorghum flavor. In my pale in which I was trying to hide the flavor I only used 3oz. After only 2 weeks in bottles the flavor is faint, and I can tell it will age out by the new year, but if this was a tripel, it would still be apparent in that time range.
 
...As to your recipe, most people would consider 4oz of hops in a 5gal recipe trying to 'hide' the sorghum flavor...

No more than my usual five or six ounces in barley based pale ales are intended to hide the barley taste! :D

Gee, I thought I was going light to accomodate the non-hop heads who might drink it!
 
No more than my usual five or six ounces in barley based pale ales are intended to hide the barley taste! :D

Gee, I thought I was going light to accomodate the non-hop heads who might drink it!

Hey, I'm with you. But I am brewing this for people who haven't had barley beer long before the IPA-craze hit us. :mug:
 
Anything made from wheat, rye, and barley contains gluten. Its a questionable matter but it seems like oats are probably safe, but contamined from shared fields and equipment. There are a couple companies that produce gluten free oats.

I also disagree with the flow chart when it says "up to 2ppm gluten" from using white labs. The yeast slurry from WL is 12ppm. We don't know what amount out of gluten contamination has gotten into the sorghum syrup. If its zero, then "up to 2ppm" might be accurate. Its probably unlikely that the sorghum syrup has no traces of gluten in it either, just that it has under 20ppm. I think "at least 2ppm gluten" would be more accurate but thats a side issue. I think the important thing is that fermentis yeast is safe, white labs tubes carry a bit more risk even if they are technically gluten free.

This is the real risk factor here in general to me that consumers should know. It looks like testing under 20ppm will be able to be labeled gluten free. That might not cause a reaction in most people, but maybe I'd be one of the unlucky ones it does. I think there's also some risk in consumption. Maybe I can consume 24 oz of 4ppm beer a day without getting sick. Maybe I can't handle 48 oz of it, or maybe I can't handle the 24 oz when I also have some "gluten-free" food that is 18ppm. Bottom line I think its important to make your customers know that gluten free doesn't mean 100% gluten free. It means reduced gluten. Make sure they're aware there is a risk, help them understand how to minimize it, and make sure they understand you realize its a serious health issue and that you don't want to see them sick from beer either.

Most people find their GF brews ferment out very thoroughly andlike to add 8oz of maltodextrin for body and an attempt at a little head. Most people find a citrus taste is left from sorghum. I think the secret is going to be getting creative with adjuncts, yeast, etc. From my experimentaton so far I think its going to be easier to capture the spirit of good beers that heavily emphasize hoppy characteristics and spices more than it will be to really capture the malty goodness of something like a mild/brown.

Ymmv, and put some pressure on malters to produce some gluten free speciality grains!
 
Time definitely helps.

I have a pumpkin GF spice ale that is about 3 months old now and there is no trace of sorghum flavors in the beer anymore.

I also have a belgian tripel (much lighter in flavor) that is about 4 months old and still tastes of sorghum...

I agree, my pumpkin spice ale definitely has mellowed out and the sorghum isn't really there. The tripel sounds interesting though!

Most people find their GF brews ferment out very thoroughly andlike to add 8oz of maltodextrin for body and an attempt at a little head. Most people find a citrus taste is left from sorghum. I think the secret is going to be getting creative with adjuncts, yeast, etc. From my experimentaton so far I think its going to be easier to capture the spirit of good beers that heavily emphasize hoppy characteristics and spices more than it will be to really capture the malty goodness of something like a mild/brown.

Ymmv, and put some pressure on malters to produce some gluten free speciality grains!

I use maltodextrin as well just because the beer seemed so thin after my first two. Getting creative with adjuncts or specialty grains is where it's at. Forget the large maltsters, they will probably only serve the large companies like AB. I think Bard's does their own for this very reason.

I like to "capture the spirit" I'll formulate a recipe to the style guidelines and use adjuncts accordingly.
 
Yeah I have had concern that breiss is only making sorghum extract for AB. If they ever pull the plug on redbridge I wonder if our source will dry up.

I'll also add that I've been re-reading mosher's radical brewing lately. I think its an excellent reminder of all the creative ingredients that can be used in a beer.
 
@Soybomb
Fair enough, I concede your point, and can change the chart to say 'at least 2ppm'. And I agree with you that gluten might be something where the problem is in the 'total parts' and not the 'concentration of parts'. Then again, it seems like too few real scientists are working on this sort of problem and we're left to fumble in the dark in the meantime.

Thanks for the feedback. I was trying to make a simple chart that could easily be used. Definitely some details that could be added to make it more in depth. Sometimes to get simplicity you trade the finer details.

Now what we need to do is get a definitive guide for how best to access the sugar contained within our GF grains. Maybe a chart of all the various gelatinization temperatures would be a good start?
 
Now what we need to do is get a definitive guide for how best to access the sugar contained within our GF grains. Maybe a chart of all the various gelatinization temperatures would be a good start?

+100000000000

Everytime I look into sorghum I seem to find a different number. I still haven't done anything with the sorghum I malted...I really need to get on that.
 
Thanks for the input guys, some really good advice. The goal here is to help people make good beer, GF or otherwise.

And I work at Midwest, NB is for jerks.
 
And I work at Midwest, NB is for jerks.

Lol, noted.

You know, a couple of GF beer kits would be unique in the industry. ;) I am picturing them next to 'world's first' verbiage. 1% of the population would thank you at least.

OK, need to get back to marketing for my employer again...
 
Lol, noted.

You know, a couple of GF beer kits would be unique in the industry. ;) I am picturing them next to 'world's first' verbiage. 1% of the population would thank you at least.

OK, need to get back to marketing for my employer again...

I don't know if it would be "world's first" I think the Aussies have a kit from Grain and Grape. But it IS a good thought and it would have been nice to have when I first got into gluten free brewing. I think you're on to something here.
 
We aren't going to make any GF kits, but, we would be happy to switch out any barley based kits with sorghum.
 
We aren't going to make any GF kits, but, we would be happy to switch out any barley based kits with sorghum.

The problem with that is the color. You still wouldn't have specialty grains and you wouldn't have the different types of malt extract since the sorghum only comes as is.

It isn't a bad thought though.
 
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