skimming instead of washing?

so, the question is simple - why would I wash the yeast if I can skim it off from the beer while I have the krauzen on top?

I'd skim it with a sanitized spoon, toss it in a sanitized jar, and top it with sanitized water...

I suppose there is a catch with this, otherwise everybody would do it this way, so what's the catch?

It's just one of the other ways of doing things. It's sort of fallen out of favor over the decades, but it's reasonable. But it's something that you cannot easily do in a carboy. But there are lots of true "top cropping" yeasts out there, like Burton ale, where this is still talked about.

Revvy said:

It's just one of the other ways of doing things. It's sort of fallen out of favor over the decades, but it's reasonable. But it's something that you cannot easily do in a carboy. But there are lots of true "top cropping" yeasts out there, like Burton ale, where this is still talked about.

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When I ferment in a bucket it's very easy to do this. This method is much easier than washing. First, because I have pure yeast on top (maybe some hop and protein particles), but it's not even close to what I get from yeast cake (tons of trash that looks like poo by the way)

Thanks for the answer!

I've wondered about this. I just assumed you could get more by rinsing. How much yeast can one get from top cropping? In a bucket, how do you inow when the right moment is to top crop? I would think there is a chance of infection?

top cropping is a very traditional way of gathering yeast but you need to be VERY clean. Wyeast recommends cropping once the gravity is below 50%
Link to their yeast harvesting page
http://www.wyeastlab.com/com-yeast-harvest.cfm

I assume top cropping has fallen out of favor due to the slight possibility of it affecting the current fermentation (i.e. Slowing it, Stalling it, Halting it, Wild innoculation, etc) especially with smaller batches, it's hard to tell when fermentation is 50% or better (which is when you should top crop) and nobody wants to try and take a gravity reading at high kreusen.

That being said, I have done it without any problems as far as you know. Disclaimer portion of the program: We all know however that yeast seems to have a mind of it's own and there are numerous factors that affect fermentation, some of which are completely out of our control.

Also, one can top crop with a carboy simply by using a longer blowoff tube in the fermenting vessel, push it down into the kreusen (If not blowing off) then using a catch vessel with an inlet and outlet in the cap/bung (water in the vessel of course), place a second tube in the catch vessel outlet with the other end in a typical blowoff vessel, this way your yeast is sealed from outside air, have done this and simply placed the capped vessel in the fridge afterwards, no washing needed. I imagine you can even use wert in the catch vessel to grow more yeast as it's harvested, etc. This can be used with a bucket also, it's just harder to adjust the depth of the first "catch" tube.

Yeast on my friends

COLObrewer said:

Also, one can top crop with a carboy simply by using a longer blowoff tube in the fermenting vessel, push it down into the kreusen (If not blowing off) then using a catch vessel with an inlet and outlet in the cap/bung (water in the vessel of course), place a second tube in the catch vessel outlet with the other end in a typical blowoff vessel, this way your yeast is sealed from outside air, have done this and simply placed the capped vessel in the fridge afterwards, no washing needed. I imagine you can even use wert in the catch vessel to grow more yeast as it's harvested, etc. This can be used with a bucket also, it's just harder to adjust the depth of the first "catch" tube.

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Any pictures of this? It sounds great, especially for making a big starter for a big beer.

How do you predict pitching rates from top-cropped samples? Is it a constant I could plug into Mr. Malty?

pkiller001 said:

Any pictures of this? It sounds great, especially for making a big starter for a big beer.

How do you predict pitching rates from top-cropped samples? Is it a constant I could plug into Mr. Malty?

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I was thinking while typing that I should take a picture next time.

I simply used Mrmalty as re-pitched from slurry, but probably don't have all the settings right, there is a thick yeast setting I believe but I don't understand all I know about Mrmalty yet.

Top cropping has to be done on the yeasts' schedule. And, every yeast and beer has its own time line. Washing is done on the brewer's schedule.

Burton Union.

I'm also curious on how to estimate pitching rates using top cropped vs washed yeast.

suprchunk said:

Burton Union.

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Yes, similar to a burton union system, just plug the return line. Or, if it's designed right the yeast should fall out and stay in the "union" receptacle.

Burton union article at BYO: http://byo.com/stories/projects-and...self/354-build-a-burton-union-system-projects
It would need to be bigger if you don't have a return line.

So, how much are we talking? 10ml, 50, 100 or more? I know, it depends, what gave you seen in the past?

flexbrew said:

So, how much are we talking? 10ml, 50, 100 or more? I know, it depends, what gave you seen in the past?

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Well for me it's not about volume, it's about harvesting clean and pure top cropped yeast to store, however at times I've seen close to 100ml. Conversely at times, I've seen very little, as you said it depends, on alot of things. FYI, I'm working on a way to only draw from the bottom of the fermentor also (utilizing a racking cane) or any level in the fermentor for that matter.