IPA aging Q

so I brewed an All grain Arrogant Bastard clone over a month ago. I bottled this beast about 10 or so days ago. when i opened the secondary fermenter it smelled spot on. of course due to my natural love for this beer and general impatience, i had to sneak a bottle after only a week of aging. now i know youre supposed to let IPAs age a good amount of time to allow the hop character to really mature in the beer. However i must say i was fairly surprised that upon tasting this it seemed particularly malty. at 87 IBUs i would still expect this beer to be pretty damn hoppy/bitter even though it hasnt aged to its prime. am i wrong in my assumption? im slightly concerned. i suppose i wont try it again til its gone ~1month in the bottle.

thoughts/opinions would be appreciated.

you wont really know until it is carbed? did you do a full-boil?

was it carbed? after a week in the bottle i can't imagine it was carbed enough and the carbonation can bring out the hops / bitterness than compared to flat beer.

no it definately was not fully carbed, that is a good point. and this was a 5 gallon all grain brew Forbin.

i suppose my biggest concern was the lack of percieved bitterness though. you think carb level has a pretty big effect on that as well?

CaliBrewin said:

no it definately was not fully carbed, that is a good point. and this was a 5 gallon all grain brew Forbin.

i suppose my biggest concern was the lack of percieved bitterness though. you think carb level has a pretty big effect on that as well?

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yeah, once it carbs up more you will actually loose a little more bitterness. carbonation will mask bitterness, bitterness will mask oxidation.

ColonelForbin said:

yeah, once it carbs up more you will actually loose a little more bitterness. carbonation will mask bitterness, bitterness will mask oxidation.

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its the other way around for me, i taste the hops more once its carbed up

you think it will lose bitterness? i was always under the impression that over time bitterness will improve before finally mellowing out/blending. something of that nature.

just to be clear, the bitterness i speak of is very different from "hop flavor".

CaliBrewin said:

you think it will lose bitterness? i was always under the impression that over time bitterness will improve before finally mellowing out/blending. something of that nature.

just to be clear, the bitterness i speak of is very different from "hop flavor".

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the hops attenuate over time, which means they blend in with the other tastes

if you have two identical beers with the only difference being in carbonation levels, the less carbonated beer will be perceived as hoppier than the more carbonated one. if the beer was tasted after 10 days i would assume that it would gain a little more carbonation taking away from the hop presence.

"high hop rates can mask oxidation, high carbonation can mask hops" Radical Brewing -P75-Randy Mosher

lumpher said:

the hops attenuate over time, which means they blend in with the other tastes

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+1...an aged double IPA is very much more like a barleywine than how it started. About a year ago, I came across a 4-pack of Terrapin Big Hoppy Monster from 2005, and was pleasantly surprised to find that it had, very gracefully, aged into the Big Malty Monster...it was very nice, and solidly convinced me to age a few more beers.

CaliBrewin said:

...now i know youre supposed to let IPAs age a good amount of time to allow the hop character to really mature in the beer.

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I'd be careful with this line of thinking. Don't drink it green, but if you made an IPA, it's for the hops, and aging is going to lessen both bitterness and hop flavor/aroma. Most of the reading I've done says an IPA is to be enjoyed while young. The IPA and Pale Ales I've done have all gone down hill hop-wise pretty quickly after being fully carbed.

As for not enough bitterness right now, I'd say that may well change once it's fully carbed. The idea that "high carbonation can mask hops" may be true, but to me overcarbed beers have an acidic bite that actually makes them seem more bitter. Maybe the hop flavor/aroma is masked rather than bitterness, but I'm not sure Mosher's point here applies to flat beer versus properly carbed beer anyway (I'm just guessing here as I haven't read the book).

carrotmalt said:

I'd be careful with this line of thinking. Don't drink it green, but if you made an IPA, it's for the hops, and aging is going to lessen both bitterness and hop flavor/aroma. Most of the reading I've done says an IPA is to be enjoyed while young. The IPA and Pale Ales I've done have all gone down hill hop-wise pretty quickly after being fully carbed.

As for not enough bitterness right now, I'd say that may well change once it's fully carbed. The idea that "high carbonation can mask hops" may be true, but to me overcarbed beers have an acidic bite that actually makes them seem more bitter. Maybe the hop flavor/aroma is masked rather than bitterness, but I'm not sure Mosher's point here applies to flat beer versus properly carbed beer anyway (I'm just guessing here as I haven't read the book).

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+1

My hoppy beers start degrading the second the dry hops drop out. Drink them fresh!!!

That being said, Arrogant Bastard isn't really an IPA, it's got a ton of maltiness so a little age prolly won't hurt.

smizak said:

+1
That being said, Arrogant Bastard isn't really an IPA, it's got a ton of maltiness so a little age prolly won't hurt.

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Yes, but it has a ton of hop flavor and bitterness to surpass that big malf backbone. im just a little dissapointed that my 87 IBU clone doesnt even come off as even a little bit hoppy. having a difficult time wrapping my brain around it. and here i was thinking i did a good job on it too...

CaliBrewin said:

Yes, but it has a ton of hop flavor and bitterness to surpass that big malf backbone. im just a little dissapointed that my 87 IBU clone doesnt even come off as even a little bit hoppy. having a difficult time wrapping my brain around it. and here i was thinking i did a good job on it too...

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Pellet or whole?

I've noticed on my system that whole hops for the bittering addition make markedly less bitter beer than pellets, even with the beersmith 10% utilization adjustment. I have moved to always trying to use pellet hops for my bittering at the least.

it is always possible that the hops you were using weren't as fresh as you thought.

There's also the IBU calculation formula used. The two main ones can vary quite a bit at those levels. All I can say is next time you make the recipe, make it 100 IBU and see if that's where you like it.

carrotmalt said:

I'd be careful with this line of thinking. Don't drink it green, but if you made an IPA, it's for the hops, and aging is going to lessen both bitterness and hop flavor/aroma. Most of the reading I've done says an IPA is to be enjoyed while young. The IPA and Pale Ales I've done have all gone down hill hop-wise pretty quickly after being fully carbed.

As for not enough bitterness right now, I'd say that may well change once it's fully carbed. The idea that "high carbonation can mask hops" may be true, but to me overcarbed beers have an acidic bite that actually makes them seem more bitter. Maybe the hop flavor/aroma is masked rather than bitterness, but I'm not sure Mosher's point here applies to flat beer versus properly carbed beer anyway (I'm just guessing here as I haven't read the book).

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+1
I was taught by the brewers of a local brewery, and their flagship beeer is an IPA. For commercial reasons, they are turning the beer around at 2.5 weeks. I leave the beer in primary for 4 weeks, swirl at 3.5 weeks, cold crash and maintain at serving temp, rack to the keg and dry hop, charge with CO2 and purge atmosphere and leave connected to gas, pull the dry hops at 1-2 weeks depending on hops used, amount I used, and the particular flavor achieved-so when I like it, they come out.

Dry hop aroma starts to degrade as soon as it is pulled. An IPA will continue to lose flavor and aging is more for the complexity of the malt flavors and NOT for hop purposes. I achieve this by the lengthy primary and an extra couple weeks in the keg. A bigger beer is treated to more lengthy maturation, but I don't brew IIPA's or BW's.

Others may use different methods, but this was beat into me, and it's just how I do it.

pellet hops were unopened til brew time. IBU calculation was done at brewer's friend.

i will give another update within the next week, but im disappointed in the results so far.

been brewing for almost 1.5 yrs now and feeling like i need a re-education.. =/