Sculpture design advice, any good threads?

Looking to make a sculpture of some kind, I am torn between a 3 tier and something like a MoreBeer 1550 2 tier with pump. I think I kind of like the simplicity of gravity feed, and I think I could design one of those that would store with a pretty small footprint (compared to a big box structure of 2 tier).

I don't really have limitations on fabrication -- I know where to buy plenty of stock, can get SS sheet pretty cheap, full knowledge and access to welders, manual machine shop and 3D modeling software.

I did plan on buying a pump eventually anyway, but not sure about 2...although if I had unlimited floor space I would likely thing a single tier sounds easy to use and make too...but that seems to be awful big.

Anyway, I am sure it has been talked about before, but the search is not so good IMO, and was curious if there are any good links to some kind of conversation like this, with pros and cons?

Thanks in advance...

Here is a real nice 2 tier stand.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/my-rig-105047/
It's not any less floor space than a single tier but you can fly sparge with one one pump. Keep in mind you can batch sparge with one pump on a single tier also if you are trying to save money on a pump. I'm still working on my all-grain setup so I don't have any personal experience, but I can't imagine having to use ladders to brew. Seems incredibly inconvenient.

whatdyisit said:

Here is a real nice 2 tier stand.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/my-rig-105047/
It's not any less floor space than a single tier but you can fly sparge with one one pump. Keep in mind you can batch sparge with one pump on a single tier also if you are trying to save money on a pump. I'm still working on my all-grain setup so I don't have any personal experience, but I can't imagine having to use ladders to brew. Seems incredibly inconvenient.

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That is an interesting design too, I really have only batch sparged--really don't have an attraction to fly sparge, since it seems like a lot more moving pieces and water levels...so I would likely batch sparge on any system I make regardless.

So I guess the other thing I'm thinking, since I have never used a pump, is that it seems to be another thing to figure out...maybe simplicity of gravity feed sounds better at the moment, but really isn't?

Forgot to mention in previous post, currently have a keggle, 10 gallon boil kettle (either one could be BK or HLT) and a 10 gallon igloo cooler MLT.

What you could do is just troll through the DIY section and look for some high rated sculpture/brewery builds or the like.

If you have the space to store it and a pump, go single tier. It is so nice to have it all at working level. I had a folding three tier stand that was great for its ability to be stowed in a 22"x22" space, but I much prefer the ease of use of my single to. Pumps are much quicker than gravity, too. Finally, you can gravity feed into a bucket and transfer in the rare situation when your pump craps out on you. See my gallery in my signature to see the evolution of my stands. Good luck.

dcbc said:

See my gallery in my signature to see the evolution of my stands. Good luck.

Click to expand...

Broken link.

whatdyisit said:

Broken link.

Click to expand...

Same here, but dcbc, i would really like to look, and thanks for the comparison of 3 tier/compact storage to single tier and a little bigger...I am going to have to set out to check on how I can store it and what makes sense.

I would definitely think a single tier USAGE is easier/better, but its the space, unfortunately I only have a 2 car garage and no outbuilding...

So I see 22" x 22" as a footprint # for a 3 tier, I assume a single tier would be more like 22" x 66" or so?

Will have to take a tape measure to the garage then...

Take a look at this two tier design. I built one very similar. For my needs it stores better than a single tier, it only requires one pump, and it is easy to work with. I am very happy with it.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/2-tier-brewstand-build-327480/

GoodDogShelby said:

Take a look at this two tier design. I built one very similar. For my needs it stores better than a single tier, it only requires one pump, and it is easy to work with. I am very happy with it.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/2-tier-brewstand-build-327480/

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That is a different approach than I had seen before, thanks! Will have to see how I could hide that one...

Go all electric and then you can build a single tier in your basement (if you have a basement). As for the searching, not sure what terms your using but if you type in "brew stand rig", you should be able to find a ton of posts. If that doesn't work go to google and just type in "site:homebrewtalk.com brew stand rig" you'll find ton of results.

LiquidFlame said:

Go all electric and then you can build a single tier in your basement (if you have a basement). As for the searching, not sure what terms your using but if you type in "brew stand rig", you should be able to find a ton of posts. If that doesn't work go to google and just type in "site:homebrewtalk.com brew stand rig" you'll find ton of results.

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Thanks for the new keywords, that seems to get more hits!

Thought about it (electric)...seems like a bit of setup, although setting up elec controls is fun and I can do it, I have to be realistic on what I actually will have time to do. I already have 2 turkey fryer style burners for free, so I don't need to buy a heat source at the moment. If I had to buy one anyway, I would be looking at a NG setup or electric for sure--but I can always just change over to electric sometime in the future if need be, too, if I had a single tier or stepped, I could just close off the top and cabinet the bottom.

As far as the basement, mine is not setup for that kind of deal, and I really don't want to deal with the hassle of venting it out. That would also be a bit more permanent, and right now I have moving/relocation prospects that are possible this year (voluntary) that would keep me from doing that kind of stuff.

whatdyisit said:

Broken link.

Click to expand...

Sorry about that. Will fix the signature. Until then,

https://picasaweb.google.com/117653820369785523108/Sculpture?authkey=Gv1sRgCI7KybH1ueSeZA

rpe290 said:

Same here, but dcbc, i would really like to look, and thanks for the comparison of 3 tier/compact storage to single tier and a little bigger...I am going to have to set out to check on how I can store it and what makes sense.

I would definitely think a single tier USAGE is easier/better, but its the space, unfortunately I only have a 2 car garage and no outbuilding...

So I see 22" x 22" as a footprint # for a 3 tier, I assume a single tier would be more like 22" x 66" or so?

Will have to take a tape measure to the garage then...

Click to expand...

My single tier is probably 75"x25". It is huge. But I built it so that I could drastically increase batch size down the road without modifications. If you're like me, and don't weld, modifications is where the cost really goes up (ask me how I know). I am in a two car garage as well. But it has a boat instead of two cars. So I have a space to store and brew without rearranging too much. For figuring out how much space you need, I highly recommend laying out the top-down design with masking tape, setting your kettles on it so you know they will fit, then measuring the tape lines to make your drawing. Starting out on paper is nice, but you definitely want to make sure you have room and that the kettle supports are in the right place.

Here is my old stand, which a friend of mine now owns. It was not without its flaws (the brew kettle was a pain to remove to clean and the immersion chiller was a tight squeeze, but the folding design worked extremely well (so well, that I added a second folding work table when I took it back to have it widened to accommodate larger kettles (modifications are more expensive than having it done the first time btw; hence, my do it all the first time motto). The shelves are held up by steel pins during storage. Those steel pins were moved to keep the legs in place when the shelves were down. Also, I didn't consider BK height when I started. Fortunately, I had a pump that I had planned to use for whirlpooling. But if you don't have a pump, the BK needs to be higher than the fermenter. Lastly, I originally designed it with the single shelf to angle slightly toward the stand so the cooler could drain. But I ended up arranging the cooler differently, and the angled shelf just ended up looking slightly off. I also kicked the wheels out a bit when I had it modified since it was a bit top heavy with them directly beneath the frame.

When you start designing your rig, I highly recommend Google SketchUp

dcbc said:

My single tier is probably 75"x25". It is huge. But I built it so that I could drastically increase batch size down the road without modifications. If you're like me, and don't weld, modifications is where the cost really goes up (ask me how I know). I am in a two car garage as well. But it has a boat instead of two cars. So I have a space to store and brew without rearranging too much. For figuring out how much space you need, I highly recommend laying out the top-down design with masking tape, setting your kettles on it so you know they will fit, then measuring the tape lines to make your drawing. Starting out on paper is nice, but you definitely want to make sure you have room and that the kettle supports are in the right place.

Here is my old stand, which a friend of mine now owns. It was not without its flaws (the brew kettle was a pain to remove to clean and the immersion chiller was a tight squeeze, but the folding design worked extremely well (so well, that I added a second folding work table when I took it back to have it widened to accommodate larger kettles (modifications are more expensive than having it done the first time btw; hence, my do it all the first time motto). The shelves are held up by steel pins during storage. Those steel pins were moved to keep the legs in place when the shelves were down. Also, I didn't consider BK height when I started. Fortunately, I had a pump that I had planned to use for whirlpooling. But if you don't have a pump, the BK needs to be higher than the fermenter. Lastly, I originally designed it with the single shelf to angle slightly toward the stand so the cooler could drain. But I ended up arranging the cooler differently, and the angled shelf just ended up looking slightly off. I also kicked the wheels out a bit when I had it modified since it was a bit top heavy with them directly beneath the frame.

Click to expand...

A thoughtful design, good info/idea.

don't shy too far away from Fly Sparging - honestly, it's a LOT less work than most people think it is. Start draining, start the sparge flow, get an inch or so of standing water on top of the bed, step away, take a drink of homebrew. Seriously, it's less work than you think.

Anyway - on topic ( ) I do a three-tier stacked system and it works well. Really well. I do need a pump but that's only because I'm lazy and tired of getting water up that high (and I don't use tap water.)

Start with what you want to do and how you want to brew. If you want a lot of automation, go single-tier, that seems to be the ticket there.

I wanted simple so I went three-tier gravity fed. VERY simple, very straightforward, and my "pump" (gravity) isn't going to fail anytime soon. . .

Do you have a buddy or club? Brew a bunch with them so you get to feel out the workflow and then you can design around that.

Just a couple of thoughts. . .

socalboomer said:

don't shy too far away from Fly Sparging - honestly, it's a LOT less work than most people think it is. Start draining, start the sparge flow, get an inch or so of standing water on top of the bed, step away, take a drink of homebrew. Seriously, it's less work than you think.

Anyway - on topic ( ) I do a three-tier stacked system and it works well. Really well. I do need a pump but that's only because I'm lazy and tired of getting water up that high (and I don't use tap water.)

Start with what you want to do and how you want to brew. If you want a lot of automation, go single-tier, that seems to be the ticket there.

I wanted simple so I went three-tier gravity fed. VERY simple, very straightforward, and my "pump" (gravity) isn't going to fail anytime soon. . .

Do you have a buddy or club? Brew a bunch with them so you get to feel out the workflow and then you can design around that.

Just a couple of thoughts. . .

Click to expand...

Thanks! Is an idea with a 3 tier to have the BK close to the ground to keep the height down and then use the pump to transfer? (as a way to avoid using ladders and such). I planned on getting a pump for whirlpool chilling at least...

I honestly thought I would just run a filter and water line to the top, attach my hose at the bottom and watch the sight glass for volume on HLT (to avoid taking buckets of water up there). Would have to drop in a campden tablet only for the cloramine? Maybe I am missing something...

If you use a hose and filter, then it's cake! I use water from a source that tastes great, is reverse osmosis and all that. It's what we use for drinking. So I haul the 5gal jugs up to the hlt... The pump would be to replace that... Your hose/filter would replace that.

The idea with a three tier is to let gravity do all of the work(unless you record and then you have to give grab some help...) so it's hot to mash, mash to bk, bk to carboy and all heights are about an inch over the minimum needed... Bk is lowest because it's last step.