Big TX Home Brew E-Herms Build Out

lschiavo said:

Is your meter accurate? If it's digital, I have a few that are all over the place. I have a good old analog meter that I use when it's critical. Test with another meter if you can.

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Just have a cheap digital. It's been pretty good, but not great. Nothing else in the house has issues with power, so I'll move forward, over engineer the design and go from there. Once the system is put together, I'll stress test it to see the limits, I'm fine with one element only at a time, but both would be icing on the cake.

hatrickwah said:

Just have a cheap digital. It's been pretty good, but not great. Nothing else in the house has issues with power, so I'll move forward, over engineer the design and go from there. Once the system is put together, I'll stress test it to see the limits, I'm fine with one element only at a time, but both would be icing on the cake.

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It's probably just the meter then.

Capacity to run both elements is nice. I would recommend starting that way if you can. There are many occasions when I use both. I actually have the wiring installed and all the parts to add a second element to my HLT for quicker heating. I have 3 circuits run to the brewery, 50A 240, 30A 240 and 20A 120 for my controller. I may go 20 gallon someday and I won't need to add any feeds

Okay, so this day could have gone better with regard to this project. I received my breaker for the panel outside today, only to find that the spot where it goes, is of no use. Turns out the contacts that my breaker locks onto, and through which the electricity flows, were broken off prior. So my 2 pole, 2 inch breaker is of no use, I now have to find a 1" 2 pole 50a breaker for a 14 year old Challenger electrical panel, or else replace the panel. Unless, it is okay to run the 220v through the conduit, with no pre breaker, and tie that into my spa panel? How about, doubt it. Anyone have any ideas here? What makes this even more complicated is that there really is only the option of the 1", 2 pole breaker. All the breakers in the box are 1" 1 pole, 2 breaker config except the 60a for my A/C (or dryer). Even the 30a for the dryer/a/c is a 2 switch, 1 inch type. I'm not really up for replacing the entire panel right now.

Can you post a pic of the panel?

lschiavo said:

Can you post a pic of the panel?

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Where I had original planned to put the breaker:


Where it is going to have to sit instead:


The crap Challenger panel:


Woudl this one fit and swap the bottom 2 switch block of 15a breakers?

Many panels have the buss clipped opposite the main...frustrating!

I have never seen a panel that full of tandems! A bigger panel sure is cheaper.

The combo tandem is what you need. I can't say if a homeline breaker will fit in a challenger. Technically it is not proper to use it. See if you can find that breaker from Cutler Hammer and you will be good for sure.

lschiavo said:

Many panels have the buss clipped opposite the main...frustrating!

I have never seen a panel that full of tandems! A bigger panel sure is cheaper.

The combo tandem is what you need. I can't say if a homeline breaker will fit in a challenger. Technically it is not proper to use it. See if you can find that breaker from Cutler Hammer and you will be good for sure.

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Turns out the Eaton Cutler BR breakers are considered a valid substitute, thanks to the corporate merger world. I just wish I was informed of this before I ordered a breaker online for $20 that I could have bought at the box for less than $10, and returned when it didn't worked.

Tomorrow I head to the box store to purchase a 30a/50a dual 240v breaker by Eaton that I can put in 2 1" spaces, as well as a single dual 15a 120v breaker for 1 1" space. I just hope they have the big one in stock, the websites weren't too reassuring.

lschiavo said:

I have never seen a panel that full of tandems! A bigger panel sure is cheaper.

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Sad part, this is my second house had a panel full of tandems. My last house, a built in 2007, had a tiny GE panel full of tandems. The panel was practically the smallest box out there, I swear the builder was cutting corners. I left it full when we moved.

Someday, down the road, we'll probably swap out the panel here, put in a surge protector, etc. But I'm not up for dropping money on that yet.

I looked up the Eaton number: BQ2502115

Quick search: Cutler Hammer BQ2502115 - Bay Breakers Online

Not too bad for price. You can probably find cheaper with some searching.

Hit up the electric supply shop today. No din products, and this branch, no breaker for my panel. I'll check out another location tomorrow. On a high note, though, I confirmed something I already knew, BIG BOX = BIG $$$$. I just bought my 6# wire for $0.60 at the supply house, when big box wanted $1.30. The savings for now is going in the bank, but it may go to the hardware for a large disconnect switch (KU363N).

Pulled the trigger on the BCS unit, and 4 temp probes, [2] 6" and [2] 4". Yesterday I found the LEDs I needed on Ebay for a deal, so I ended up ordering more than I originally planned. P-J's drawing with the LEDs indicating BCS control inspired it. Last night I also picked up the conduit and hardware for installing the circuit along my exterior wall from the panel to my garage, I'll probably grab some spray paint to conceal the tube a little for my HOA. Tonight I'm planning on picking up the breaker I need.

I'm hoping to be brewing with the electric rig on Christmas, but if China postal service doesn't get my parts, I may just have to use the old trusty propane rig.

lschiavo said:

Capacity to run both elements is nice.

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I'll second that. I use both elements at once (at various times in the process) every time I brew.

Not necessary, but very convenient.

TB

I have just about all my pieces ordered up now. Just have two shipments left to order. One being the remaining valves and pieces from Bargain Fittings, the other being my HERMS coil. Originally I had planned a stainless steel coil, the Midwest Supply, 50ft, but at the moment, budget just got tightened up, and Midwest has no idea when they are getting any more in stock.

TB, where did you finally order your coil from? What are the chances Home Depot or Lowes has 1/2" coil, 25' long minimum? Which compression fittings did you use on the copper?

hatrickwah said:

TB, where did you finally order your coil from? What are the chances Home Depot or Lowes has 1/2" coil, 25' long minimum? Which compression fittings did you use on the copper?

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I merely bought 25 ft of 1/2" Cu from the hardware store downtown (sold by the foot). I would imagine a big box hardware store would have 1/2" Cu by the foot and by the 50/100 ft roll.

I used the compression fittings from Bargain Fittings. You should be careful, since those are SS, and you don't want to tighten down the SS compression onto Cu like you would with SS tubing. You could just remove the bevelled ferrule and add a couple more silicone o-rings, then tighten it fairly lightly. That way, you can remove the coil for whatever reason, and still get a seal when you reinstall it.

TB

This is the place for the best prices on copper tubing that I've been able to find:
coppertubingsales.com

1/2" OD X 25FT - REF - $26.01
1/2" OD X 50FT - REF - $51.30

Unless you get really lucky somewhere else.

P-J said:

This is the place for the best prices on copper tubing that I've been able to find:
coppertubingsales.com

1/2" OD X 25FT - REF - $26.01
1/2" OD X 50FT - REF - $51.30

Unless you get really lucky somewhere else.

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Now that is tempting. I'm liking the 50 footer. I think I'll probably order the 50 ft coil, then make my coil, then determine what length the coil will ultimately become.

P-J said:

This is the place for the best prices on copper tubing that I've been able to find:
coppertubingsales.com

1/2" OD X 25FT - REF - $26.01
1/2" OD X 50FT - REF - $51.30

Unless you get really lucky somewhere else.

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Turns out, if you call your local plumbing supply house, these prices could possible be the same. I called up a supply house here in Houston, they didn't have em on the shelf, but all their other locations did. Same price, cheaper freight (since its in state). If they ship today, I'll have the copper tomorrow.

It's official. Everything should be ordered now. It's now just a matter of time, waiting on the Chinese postal service.
In the meantime, plenty of work to do on preparing the garage for the electric brewery.

hatrickwah said:

It's official. Everything should be ordered now. It's now just a matter of time, waiting on the Chinese postal service.
In the meantime, plenty of work to do on preparing the garage for the electric brewery.

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Right on! Now the fun begins.

TB

Getting closer.
All my necessary parts are in, SSRs, contacts, etc. Now I'm waiting on LEDs, switches, and DIN rail terminal blocks. Should have everything before the long weekend.

Tomorrow though, time to pull out the hammer drill and makes a hole in the brick exterior.

hatrickwah said:

Getting closer.
All my necessary parts are in, SSRs, contacts, etc. Now I'm waiting on LEDs, switches, and DIN rail terminal blocks. Should have everything before the long weekend.

Tomorrow though, time to pull out the hammer drill and makes a hole in the brick exterior.

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What size is that box and were did you get it? Thanks looking good so far, I am just behind you on gathering the stuff for my build as well. Good luck.

WAORGANY said:

What size is that box and were did you get it? Thanks looking good so far, I am just behind you on gathering the stuff for my build as well. Good luck.

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Box is a stainless nema, 24"w x 30"t x 12" d. A little over kill but is was free, and as another put it earlier "room to grow".

WAORGANY said:

What size is that box and were did you get it?

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I think thats his boil kettle

Too small an enclosure can be frustrating. You certainly won't need to cram things in that one. Looks like you're off to a good start.

lschiavo said:

I think thats his boil kettle

Too small an enclosure can be frustrating. You certainly won't need to cram things in that one. Looks like you're off to a good start.

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Yeah I am currently in the process to find a good box maybe a little smaller than this one and not necessarily in ss LOL thanks

WAORGANY said:

Yeah I am currently in the process to find a good box

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Aren't we all

Productive day. Ran conduit for the most part. Still need to pull the hammer drill out for a few screws, but should be ready to run wire later tomorrow.


Drilling through the brick from the garage.


Also added plumbing for water into the garage, no hose is my goal here.


Conduit on the outside. Since this part is visible from the street, I wanted to do my best to conceal it for HOA purposes. (Didn't ask permission)


The GFCI spa panel to the left, then into the old clunker breaker box on the right. Not the prettiest job, but should be good.

I'll say productive! I hope you lubricated your efforts with a few beers. Lookin good!

More work today. Conduit is in. Wire is hot, just have to flip the breaker on.

New breakers are in.


The spa panel is wired up.


Test mounted the panel. Thinking it is going to have to be closer to the garage door side, since spacing is tight in the corner. My stand is potentially 42" wide, and the whole currently is only 38" or so.


For those pondering a 42" brew stand. The setup is a 2 tier setup, but sort of inverted. I'm putting my HLT low, and pumping up to my BK and MT.

hatrickwah said:

For those pondering a 42" brew stand. The setup is a 2 tier setup, but sort of inverted. I'm putting my HLT low, and pumping up to my BK and MT.

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what is the benefit of having the HLT lower? you would still need two pumps right?

jtsims21 said:

what is the benefit of having the HLT lower? you would still need two pumps right?

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Not a problem. I already have a pair. As I mentioned earlier, I am simply upgrading my propane single tier, therefore I already had a few things. I got a pair of chugger pumps last year.

There really isn't much benefit to the lower HLT, except for space for me. I have a very limited amount of space to work with, and putting the HLT low is practical since it isn't the one that I am constantly going into. Only thing the HLT has is the HERMs coil.

Funny part is I say upgrade, but considering the cost so far, I hate to think what it would cost me to do all new.

I should add, I forgot to mention... 3/4" pvc conduit,and 4 6# wires = LOTS OF WORK to pull 30'. My wife and I had a bear getting that stuff from the front end to the panel. Next time I think I should use 1" conduit, and the entire bottle of lube.

Been a bit since I last updated. I've been working on this the last few nights as most of my parts role in. I'm hoping to be up and running after the holiday, but since I haven't seen my switches yet, I'm not so sure. In the meanwhile, here is some brew p0rn for the DIYers.

Going with a Kal clone setup for attaching my elements to the keggles:


Coiled my 50' of 1/2 copper refrigeration coil.


HLT is ready. Just need a cutter for the copper coil.


Temperature probes are ready. Again, borrowing from Kal with the braided cover.




There are the updates so far. Should plenty more tonight.

Today's progress. All I can say is, there isn't enough beer in my fridge to numb the soreness in my neck after today's progress:


Laying it out.


All my holes are cut, and switches and LEDs in.


A good percentage of the wiring is completed. Now I need to get more wire, I ran out of 14awg. I have plenty of 24, but that's for the low voltage stuff.

Was a nice, short, holiday weekend, but thanks to it, I'm getting closer to brewing. The panel is on the wall, wired, and nearly working. Auto-Off-On for the pumps doesn't work yet, I had to order some additional switch blocks to add 5v switching.

If all goes to plan, I'll be brewing New Years with no auto, or only auto for my pumps. I've written the basic BCS brew plan, and will fine tune on Saturday with a mock brew with only water.

Tonight or tomorrow night I hope to be building my brew workstation for the kegs. I don't want to be doing this on Saturday.

Another update. I had hoped to put in a steel brew stand, but the quotes I received were so out to lunch that I bailed. Instead, I'm putting in wood setup, more built in the probably should be, but I don't plan on moving anytime soon.
Here's tonight's efforts:

She's finished. Brewed a batch of Blonde ale today.
Aside from one big bug, everything seems to working well. Damn cheap Chinese SSRs were DOA. One comes on and off no problem if in short spurts, otherwise it sticks open. The other (on the BK side) is stuck open. Ordered a pair of replacements, but they won't be here until later next week.
Meanwhile, some pictures:

Wow! Nice work! What's the deal with the two chillers?

Djlunchbox said:

Wow! Nice work! What's the deal with the two chillers?

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Texas ground water is too warm. First plate chiller is a 50 plate from Keg Cowboy running off the tap water, gets the wort down to 100-110 degrees. The second plate chiller is a 40, also from Keg Cowboy, running with 32 degree starting temp, glycol. Depending on my flow rate, I averaged 70 degrees on 10 gallon batch over 25 minute knockout. Good number for Texas.

Damn, Texas ground water is hot! My NY well water in the summer is 55. One run thru a 25ft cfc and it's at 60 degrees.

Yea sad, really. I started brewing in Wyoming, there the ground water gets COLD. I could knock out in no time with my old CFC, move here to Texas and I had to buy 60# of ice each week to brew, and spend 30+ minutes stirring the ice in a pre-chiller bath before the water entered my CFC. With any luck this plate chiller method will stand up. I'm using the same method some large scale brewers use. Down here though, a lot use a HLT and CLT, and knock out from the CLT. I don't want to go that route if I can help it.