3 FLoyds Zombie Dust attempt. Help/info requested

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mudweiser5 said:
Need a little help as this will be my first brew involving a mini-mash. I plan on doing a 2.5 gallon version of this brew next week. Looks something like this:

Batch Size: 2.5 gallons
Estimated Original Gravity: 1.061
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.015
Estimated Color: 9.9 SRM
Bitterness: 72.4 IBU
Mash Temp 151 F (45 min)


3.00 lb Extra Light Dry Extract
0.50 lb Munich Malt-10L
0.25 lb Carafoam
0.25 lb Crystal Malt-60L
0.25 lb Melanoidin Malt
0.25 oz Citra [14.1%] (First Wort Hop) 15.6 IBU
0.50 oz Citra [14.1%] (15 min) 25.6 IBU
0.50 oz Citra [14.1%] (10 min) 18.7 IBU
0.50 oz Citra [14.1%] (5 min) 10.3 IBU
0.50 oz Citra [14.1%] (1 min) 2.2 IBU
1.50 oz Citra [14.1%] (Dry Hop 10 Days)
Safale S-04 Dry Ale Yeast

I plan on doing a full boil as I have a 5 gallon kettle. I do have a few questions however.
1- What volume of water/wort should I start the boil with to finish with 2.5 gallons?
2- How much water do I mash with? A gallon? Then top up to boil volume?
3- Should I add the 60 min addition since it will be a full boil? My BrewR app has it at 72.4 IBU w/o it and 98 IBU with 0.25 oz at 60 min.

Thank you in advance and a big thanks to skeezerpleezer for the recipe.
Click to expand...

I had some questions similar to yours that were answered in this thread. Regarding your first question, it really depends on your set up and how much you're going to boil off. If it were me, I'd start with 3.5 gallons preboil.


General consensus for mashing is about 1 to 1.25 quarts of water per pound of grain. After mashing and rinsing, top up to achieved desired pre-boil volume.

Regarding question 3, leave the 60 minute addition out if doing a full boil.

Side note: Be VERY careful with your fermenting temps if you are using s-04. I've done this batch twice. Once with 1968 and once with s-04. I read that fermenting should be done in the low 60's, so I figured setting my ambient temp to 62-63 should be fine. I obviously made a mistake there, since the fermenting wort was well above 62-63, and I got a lot of banana esters from too high a fermentation temp with s-04.
 
I brewed this last night let it cool to around 67' checked the og and it was at 1.060 is that going to be a problem?
 
Nah, a little low, but I bet it will still make a damn fine beer...I brewed it yesterday as well and my og is 1.062, so I finished a little shy of target, too. Fermenting away as I type.
 
cant find this beer where I live, but am damn curious to how it tastes. don't have the English yeast or Melanoidin malt on hand, but I do have aromatic and kolsch or us05, and a ton of citra whole leaf. dont think I have ever brewed a pale with such a fg. curious to how it would turn out with the kolsch, I have been wanting to try a pale/ipa with 2565 and this might fit the bill. thoughts? I think I should be able to sub the aromatic for the Melanoidin ounce for ounce?

and has anyone checked the original beers actually gravity? last time I dealt with citra I received a total cat pee bomb. is that expected?
 
Anybody know if they currently have some Zombie Dust available. Im taking a trip in 2 weeks and we are stopping at their brewery for a day. Hoping to pick some of this up
 
Adeering said:
Anybody know if they currently have some Zombie Dust available. Im taking a trip in 2 weeks and we are stopping at their brewery for a day. Hoping to pick some of this up
Click to expand...

They did on Saturday.
 
Adeering said:
Anybody know if they currently have some Zombie Dust available. Im taking a trip in 2 weeks and we are stopping at their brewery for a day. Hoping to pick some of this up
Click to expand...
If you follow them on Facebook they will sometimes mention when they have it or when they sell out.
 
Adeering said:
Anybody know if they currently have some Zombie Dust available. Im taking a trip in 2 weeks and we are stopping at their brewery for a day. Hoping to pick some of this up
Click to expand...
You can also check on their website. Go to the "BREWPUB" link and there's a "Tap List" they update nearly everyday. It'll tell you on the top of the page what they have in packaged beers. 6 packs, bombers and on tap that day.
 
well, we brewed this up yesterday, everything went good. scaled the recipe up to 6.5 gallons to account for loss of wort to whole hops. mashed at 155, pitched a slurry of 2565 kolsch yeast at 60F, we shall see how this one goes. I am a little worried about it turning out sweet with such a high FG.
 
My last batch with s-04 came out awesome! Fermented a little high, but still awesome! I want to enter this in a competition at a local brewpub. Should I enter this as an apa or ipa?
 
Okay, I really want to brew this Extract version, but I live in AZ and the temps are going up quick. I keep my house at a stable 75deg and my worts seem to keep this temp consistently. I need to find a higher temp tolerant yeast. I was looking at Wyeast 1332 and it can handle those temps. Do you think it will change the taste too much? Its an APA ale and sounds true to the Zombie Dust flavor. Thoughts? Any alternative suggestions? Thanks!
 
75 degrees is quite high for fermenting... I would definitely suggest some kind of ferm chamber or if money is an issue than definitely go with a swamp cooler. I just drank my first couple of bottles about a week ago and it is one of the greatest things I have ever tasted despite a few miscalculations :p. Do it right and I promise you will not regret it!
 
Yeah, I agree. I think with a tub of water and a towel, I can bring it down to AT LEAST 70deg. That should be fine for the S-04. Thanks!
 
Couple of questions regarding the extract version:

1) I plugged the extract recipe into Beersmith and my ABV is only 5.1%. Any ideas why its so low?

2) If I wanted to do BIAB, I'd steep the grains along with the FWH addition for 30 mins at 150ish?
 
MeanDeuce said:
Couple of questions regarding the extract version:

1) I plugged the extract recipe into Beersmith and my ABV is only 5.1%. Any ideas why its so low?

2) If I wanted to do BIAB, I'd steep the grains along with the FWH addition for 30 mins at 150ish?
Click to expand...

Disclaimer: haven't brewed this yet, but planning to do the extract version next week so I'm pulling my recipe together and doing lots of reading on partial mash techniques (this will be my first partial mash).

1) Reading this and the other Zombie Dust recipe thread, it looks like people following the front page recipe have often come up short on original gravity (and hence ABV). I wonder if they're assuming the extract target volume is also 6 gallons? (If you read carefully, he says the extract assumes you'll be shooting for 5 gallons, not 6 gallons like the all-grain version). If you apply a standard conversion ratio (1lb grain = .75 lb LME = .6 lb DME) to the all-grain recipe, and account for the fact that the all-grain is for 6 gallons and the extract is for 5 gallons, the 6 lbs DME is about right. Having said that, when I plug this into Beersmith it also tells me that I need more extract to hit the target OG of 1.065. I'm going to follow Beersmith to make my 5.5 gallon batch and use a bit more extract than called for here (8.5 lb LME, which would equate to 7.7 lb LME or 6.2 lb DME in a 5 gallon batch). Will post back if I overshoot the OG.

2) Re: doing the partial mash, there's a great thread discussing various approaches here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-partial-mash-brewing-pics-75231/
Basically though, you need to "mash" the Munich, Carafoam, Crystal and Melanoiden at ~ 152 F for 30 mins - 1 hour with a limited amount of water (people often recommend 1.25 qts / lb of grain). So here that would be 3.125 qts (1.25 qts/lb * 2.5 lbs grain). You don't just want to toss the grain into 152F water though, b/c the grain will cool it down a good bit. So use this calculator: http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml to figure out what temp you should heat your water to before dropping in the grain (for me, assuming the grain will be at 68F room temp, it tells me to heat the water to 168F).

For the FWH, those go in AFTER the grains are removed from the mash (at which point you have created "first wort" for these hops to go into). I do a full boil for my extract brews so I plan to "sparge" (rinse) my grains in my brew pot for 10-15 mins at 170F with the remaining volume of water needed to get my boil volume (~5.7 gallons), while the FWH marinate in the first wort. Then I'll remove the grains from the brew pot, dump the now-hopped first wort into my brew pot, and carry on with my brew day.

Like I say, I haven't tried this yet, but after reading up on partial mashing and FWH I think this is a reasonable approach. Good luck with your brew (and hopefully you'll wish me the same)!
 
Ok your feedback makes sense to me. Thanks, yeah Beersmith says my OG would be 1.055, so I need to jack up the DME more.

Your process for steeping grains and adding the FWH makes sense too. Good luck, I'm prob a month out from having time to make this, so I'll be looking to see how yours turns out.
 
MeanDeuce said:
Ok your feedback makes sense to me. Thanks, yeah Beersmith says my OG would be 1.055, so I need to jack up the DME more.

Your process for steeping grains and adding the FWH makes sense too. Good luck, I'm prob a month out from having time to make this, so I'll be looking to see how yours turns out.
Click to expand...

One more note, you've probably read this too but you do have to "mash" rather than "steep" here because some of these grains (e.g. Munich) need to go through conversion to be useful in your wort. I found this five year old post from Yooper that nicely sums it up:

If you are strictly steeping the grains, using only crystal malts and/or roasted malts, then the quantity of water doesn't really matter all that much. It's like making tea- you are extracting color and flavor from the steeping grains and the ph doesn't really matter very much.

If you are using some other grains, though, that should be mashed (munich malt, vienna malt, carapils, flaked barley, etc), then it's important to mash with 1.25-2 quarts of water per pound of grain, and keep it at a steady mash temperature.

The confusion comes in with partial mashing- you can actually put the crystal malt, munich malt, and carapils (for example) in a grain bag, and steep it at 153 degrees for 45 minutes. That then actually makes it mashing- because the starches will be converted to sugars during the process. If you steep a grain that must be mashed, you will have a starch haze in the finished beer.
Click to expand...
 
Im super excited cause I love this clone and only have had the original once. My personal IPA is based off this recipe (with my own modification of course). But going up to Munster next week and gonna visit the brewpub so gonna pick up a couple cases of this and Dreadnaught
 
Wait.......so the extract recipe is actually a partial mash recipe? Darn, I'm getting nervous about this. I just went out and bought all my ingredients for this but was under the impression I was steeping the grains for 45-60 minutes with a 20-30 minute FWH but I guess that's not the case? I know absolutely nothing about partial mash so I guess I had better do some reading in the next 24 hours.

Also a question in regards to the Safale 04. I've noticed that the recipe calls for a 62-64 degree fermentation yet from what I've read it appears Safale 04 is at it's best when you're fermenting at 65 and above?
 
HokieHomeBrewer said:
Wait.......so the extract recipe is actually a partial mash recipe? Darn, I'm getting nervous about this. I just went out and bought all my ingredients for this but was under the impression I was steeping the grains for 45-60 minutes with a 20-30 minute FWH but I guess that's not the case? I know absolutely nothing about partial mash so I guess I had better do some reading in the next 24 hours.

Also a question in regards to the Safale 04. I've noticed that the recipe calls for a 62-64 degree fermentation yet from what I've read it appears Safale 04 is at it's best when you're fermenting at 65 and above?
Click to expand...

Actually, it appears 59-68°F is ideal for 04. I did mine at 62, turned out really good.
 
HokieHomeBrewer said:
OK well that's good to know, one less thing to worry about. Is there a particular reason to use the 04 instead of the 1968?
Click to expand...

I couldn't tell you as I've never used 1968, but from what I've read it has lower attenuation than 04 and also needs a Diacetyl rest.
 
Chug said:
I couldn't tell you as I've never used 1968, but from what I've read it has lower attenuation than 04 and also needs a Diacetyl rest.
Click to expand...

Yup the Diacetyl rest is what made me not want to use the 1968 in the first place but I'm hesitant to use the 04 in this batch because I just made a Nut Brown Ale using the 04 and the stuff quit working for me and I totally missed the FG.

Thanks for your help.
 
So with the partial mash....2.5 lb grains @1.25 quarts = 3.125 quarts which is roughly .78 gallons correct? I'm going to be doing a 3 gallon boil and then top it up to 5 gallon post boil. How much wort can I expect that 2.5 lb of grain to absorb?
 
Thanks, I just realized I messed up. I had just over 4.25 gal and used the full 5oz bag of priming sugar... Do you think they'll be ok?
 
Hi!

I Need some professional advice before I go ahead with the following recipe:


BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Zombie Dust Clone
Brewer: DeerHunter
Asst Brewer:
Style: American IPA
TYPE: Partial Mash
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 3.00 gal
Post Boil Volume: 2.71 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 4.60 gal
Estimated OG: 1.065 SG
Estimated Color: 10.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 59.6 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 109.2 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1 lbs Munich 25 (12.7 SRM) Grain 1 11.8 %
8.0 oz Carapils (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 5.9 %
8.0 oz Crystal 100 (56.0 SRM) Grain 4 5.9 %
8.0 oz Aroma Malt (50.8 SRM) Grain 2 5.9 %
0.75 oz Citra [12.40 %] - First Wort 20.0 min Hop 5 11.5 IBUs
1.00 oz Citra [12.40 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 22.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Citra [12.40 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 11.4 IBUs
1.00 oz Citra [12.40 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 9 8.3 IBUs
1.00 oz Citra [12.40 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 10 4.6 IBUs
1.00 oz Citra [12.40 %] - Boil 1.0 min Hop 11 1.0 IBUs
3.00 oz Citra [12.40 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
6 lbs Pilsen Light CBW (4.0 SRM) Dry Extract 6 70.6 %
1.0 pkg SafAle English Ale (DCL/Fermentis #S-04) Yeast 12 -


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 8 lbs 8.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 3.10 qt of water at 164.3 F 152.0 F 60 min

Sparge: Batch sparge with 5 steps (0.12gal, 0.60 gal, 0.60 gal, 0.60 gal, 0.60 gal) of 168.0 F water
Notes:
------

* Mash in 0.78g of water at 152 F för 45 minutes.
* Sparge in 168 F for 10-15 min in another kettle.
* Add all wort to boil kettle.
* Add FWH pellets (loose or bagged?) to wort and bring to boil.
* Remove from heat and add DME.
* Boil for 60 min and follow the hop schedule (pellets: loose or bagged?).
* Cool wort.
* Add wort to fermenter and top up with cold water to the 5 gallon mark.
* Pitch yeast at 68 F. (BrewSmith says 2pkg, is that correct?)
* Keep primary under 64 F for xx(?) days.
* Dry hop in primary for the last 7-10 days.


Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I am most concerned with the stuff marked in red.
- Will the Aroma Malt be a good sub for Melanoiden?
- 1 or 2 pkg of S-04?
- Hop pellets, loose or bagged?
- How long in primary before dry hop? I will not do a secondary.

Also, if you have any opinions on the brew steps in the notes, I'll be more than happy to get some feedback. A bit concerned as this is my first partial-mash and also my first FWH.

Cheers guys!
 
So I cracked open 2 bottles of this last night and tried them with a friend and fellow HBTer. I did a smaller batch size (as documented in a prior post in this thread) and I think my dry hop conversion was a little too low. The beer tasted great, was well carb'd, and had a pleasant aroma, both the Citra dry hop and the Mosaic dry hop...just not ENOUGH aroma when compared to the real Dust. Going to up this to 5 or 10 gallons and use the recipe from page one, probably splitting into two 5 gallon kegs and dry hop one with Mosaic and the other with Citra. I am very happy with the beer, just not blown away and I think that was due to my dry hop conversion to get to 2-3 gallons. I detected subtle differences between the Citra and Mosaic bottles. The Mosaic was darker and had a slight bubble gum ester present. I tried to keep the ferments the same, but it seems the one that got the Mosaic was a bit higher temp as there are different esters present in the final beer. Not certain how the color changed between the two as the only difference would be fermentation temp and dry hops. I also noticed this had good bitterness up front, but it fades quickly on the finish. I am attributing this to FWH, so I may make this and either replace FWH with bittering hops or split the FWH into FWH and bittering. Cheers!
 
I did a PM version of this using Denny's Favorite 50...I've never had the original, but this was one of my best brews out of more than 100! I'm doing this one again. It was a little bigger than the original, but it is great and my beer snob friends like this one a lot. 6 gallon recipe gave me 5 in the keg...beautiful. Fermented at 62F. Finished at 1.021...higher than I wanted, but it was extract and bigger than it was supposed to be. Dry hopped with 3.5 oz of leaf...what a great example of citra! Don't skip the FWH..I added them at the end of the PM.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 6.00 gal
Boil Size: 7.14 gal
Actual OG: 1.073 SG
Actual FG: 1.021 SG
Estimated Color: 9.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 72.8 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
7.50 lb Light Dry Extract (4.0 SRM) Dry Extract 68.18 %
1.25 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 11.36 %
0.75 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 6.82 %
0.50 lb Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 4.55 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 4.55 %
0.50 lb Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 4.55 %
3.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
0.90 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [18.00 %] (20 min) FWHops 27.3 IBU
1.25 oz Citra [13.90 %] (15 min) Hops 19.7 IBU
1.50 oz Citra [13.90 %] (10 min) Hops 17.2 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [13.90 %] (5 min) Hops 7.0 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [13.90 %] (1 min) Hops 1.5 IBU
1 Pkgs Denny's Favorite 50 (Wyeast Labs #1450)


----------------------------
Single Infusion, Full Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
45 min Mash In Add 4.38 qt of water at 165.9 F 154.0 F
 
hi,

what efficiency is this calculated with?

i like doing partial mash - do you think it'll work out with 4-5 lbs 2-row and then 3.3 lbs extra light dme?

skeezerpleezer said:
If anyone has had this beer, they know why I am asking for input. It has moved up to the top of the APA rankings on beeradvocate for good reason. http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/26/64228

Does anyone have any information other than it is a Single Hop (Citra), 6.2%, 50 ibu APA?


***It seems we are getting somewhere on this clone. After a couple revisions, here is the updated Recipe--(I removed the original to avoid any confusion):

Batch Size: 6 gallons
Estimated Original Gravity: 1.065
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.018
Estimated Color: 8.5 SRM
Bitterness: 65.9 IBU
Mash Temp: 154 F
60 min boil

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
11.75 lb 2 Row (2.0 SRM) Grain 81.7 %
1.13 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 7.8 %
0.50 lb Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 3.5 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 3.5 %
0.50 lb Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 3.5 %
0.75 oz Citra [12.40%] (First Wort Hop) Hops 17.0 IBU***
1.25 oz Citra [12.40%] (15 min) Hops 21.1 IBU
1.25 oz Citra [12.40%] (10 min) Hops 15.4 IBU
1.25 oz Citra [12.40%] (5 min) Hops 8.5 IBU
1.25 oz Citra [12.40%] (1 min) Hops 1.8 IBU
3.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
SafAle English Ale (S-04) **
London ESB 1968**

**For the first batch with this recipe, I split it and used the 2 different yeasts (S-04 and S-05). The S-04 was closer to the real Zombie Dust. The S-04 is fruitier, and had a bit higher FG (1.018 ) that the S-05 (dryer, more bitterness). I have also used 1968 and it was similar to the S-04, perhaps a bit fruitier and it was sweeter/higher FG. If using it I would recommend mashing a few degrees cooler. That said, I would recommend S-04 or 1968 at this time.

Here is the extract conversion for anyone interested:

6.00 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) Dry Extract 70.6 %
1.00 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 11.8 %
0.50 lb Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
0.50 lb Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
0.75 oz Citra [12.40%] (First Wort Hop) Hops 12.5 IBU***
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (60 min) Hops 25.1 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (15 min) Hops 12.4 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (10 min) Hops 9.1 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (5 min) Hops 5.0 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (1 min) Hops 1.1 IBU
3.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04)
or
Wyeast 1968
Ferm temp-62-64

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.066 SG
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.018 SG
Estimated Color: 9.0 SRM
Bitterness: 65.2 IBU

Steep the grains at in the mid 150s for 45-60 minutes. It is assuming a 5 gallon batch, 3 gallon - 60 minute boil, and adding the extract at the beginning. If you can do a full boil you probably wouldn't need the extra oz at 60minutes.

***The FWH ibus were calculated based on a 20 min boil to more accurately calculate the perceived bitterness (you can set boil time on FWH on Beersmith)....If you do not make this change, your IBUs will probably show as being higher. The actual beer bitterness/flavor will not.
Click to expand...
 
brewed this on saturday with a friend and hit 1.066. we are fermenting with a fat slug of fresh wyeast 1968 and cannot wait for this one.

thanks everyone for all the work done in cloning this!
 
So I've been reading this for awhile, and it seems that Zombie Dust isn't just Citra anymore. Any idea what other hop(s) are in it?
 

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