Critique: munich based oatmeal stout

My annual christmas tradition with my little sister got cancelled tomorrow so I was in a pretty bad mood today, haven't seen her all year. So to cheer myself up and to fill my now free day off tomorrow I thought I'd brew.

Another thread about munich malt got me thinking about trying it as the base malt in a stout so I thought I'd see what opinions anybody has about this recipe I threw together. I decided to use galena for bittering because I've only used it in conjunction with other hops and I thought I'd take the opportunity to see how it is on it's own.

The OG is below the style guidelines on purpose, I've been making most of my beers to session strength lately.

Interesting. I just bought a big bag of munich and want to do something with it. I feel inspired to go off the beaten track now. I bet this beer is going to be reallly good. Why the irish moss with a stout though?

Ó Flannagáin said:

Interesting. I just bought a big bag of munich and want to do something with it. I feel inspired to go off the beaten track now. I bet this beer is going to be reallly good. Why the irish moss with a stout though?

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It's something I haven't tried in a stout and I was thinking of ways to get more of a malt compliment to the roastiness - but I didn't want it to be caramel flavour. Then that munich thread popped up and I kinda went 'duh!'.

The irish moss I use to help hold the hop and break cone together after whirlpooling the kettle. Lets me syphon through my CFC without a strainer or filter.

The risk, of course, is the malt being TOO dominant over the roast. Really, I'm having trouble conceiving of how this beer will come together. It's interesting, to say the least! Strong malt, strong roast, but in the context of a smallish beer. If the OG was bigger, it'd be like a bock-stout, but it might actually work well well with the lower OG and seem really bigger (fuller, thicker, maltier) than it is.

Any worry of the Munich not being able to convert the oatmeal?

Schwarzbier is, usually, brewed with munich as the base malt. I really like munich an use it as a base for a couple of beers. However, your recipe reminds me of a bock with roasted barley, rather than an oatmeal stout.
I think the munich can convert the oats, instant oats can be substituted to make it even easier.

I've used marris otter as a base in a stout and it was AWESOME, but I'm still tempted to do this munich base one. I might do something similar to yours and throw a lb or two of marris in to help with conversions.

the_bird said:

The risk, of course, is the malt being TOO dominant over the roast. Really, I'm having trouble conceiving of how this beer will come together. It's interesting, to say the least! Strong malt, strong roast, but in the context of a smallish beer. If the OG was bigger, it'd be like a bock-stout, but it might actually work well well with the lower OG and seem really bigger (fuller, thicker, maltier) than it is.

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I wondered about that myself (overpowering) but I make a dunkelweizen for my brother all the time, it's 60/40 munich/wheat so I have a pretty good idea what the flavour will be. On the other hand this is 80%, maybe I should boost the roasted and chocolate a bit to compensate. At worst I could see some extra aging time to let it mellow.

Ó Flannagáin said:

I've used marris otter as a base in a stout and it was AWESOME, but I'm still tempted to do this munich base one. I might do something similar to yours and throw a lb or two of marris in to help with conversions.

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I'm not actually too worried about getting conversion from the oats. I mainly want the taste and the mouthfeel. I hate it when I don't hit my targets though so maybe 1lb of 2-row just for conversion help is a good thing.

I think the roast and chocolate is fine; if worried about it being too overpowering, drop the Munich back a tad and sub in some pils or base 2-row. That would decrease the beer's coolness, though!

the_bird said:

... That would decrease the beer's coolness, though!

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I think you hit the nail on the head.

the_bird said:

...That would decrease the beer's coolness, though!

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Can't do that!

I was going to add some 2-row for conversion help but now that I think about it, it's 4KG of munich to only 450G of flaked oats. I don't think it's an issue.

I'd love to do an all-Munich brew at some point. Then decoct it. TRIPLE decoction!

bradsul said:

Can't do that!

I was going to add some 2-row for conversion help but now that I think about it, it's 4KG of munich to only 450G of flaked oats. I don't think it's an issue.

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If you were using dark Munich, I might be more concerned. Regular light Munich, you should be OK.

"Paging Dr. Malt... Dr. Malt, please!"

the_bird said:

I'd love to do an all-Munich brew at some point. Then decoct it. TRIPLE decoction!

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I can't even imagine the malt flavour that would have.

bradsul said:

I can't even imagine the malt flavour that would have.

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We've got a "Big Beer Battle" coming up for later on this year... whatdoyouthink, maybe 1.090, 1.100 OG?

It would need some character grains so it didn't get too one-dimensional. I'm thinking melanoidin

the_bird said:

We've got a "Big Beer Battle" coming up for later on this year... whatdoyouthink, maybe 1.090, 1.100 OG?

It would need some character grains so it didn't get too one-dimensional. I'm thinking melanoidin

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Sounds like a winner to me!

I've got a baltic porter going with munich as its base right now. It's in secondary and tastes awesome.

Professor Frink said:

I've got a baltic porter going with munich as its base right now. It's in secondary and tastes awesome.

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Gives me high hopes for this sucker. On the_birds advice of not decreasing the cool I'm going to go with my original recipe. Just about to get my backup propane tank refilled and then I'll be getting some strike water on the fire!

I tell you what. I'd drink a whole keg of that beer. I'm a big Munich fan. I think you'll love it.

And, yes, that Munich has plenty of diastatic power to convert whatever you want to throw in there.


TL

I just made a similar stout and it is tasting great right now. Mine had 4.5 lbs of Marris Otter and 3 lbs of Munich for base malts. The specialy malts were just about the same except I used 1 lb of malted oats. Also added 1 lb of lactose. I like the lactose, but next time I may only add 10 oz. It is VERY smooth and complex and very well balanced. The roasted flavor is definitely present but I think the lactose helps to smooth it out.

I would go 50/50 2 row pale and munich. With that much munich you are basically making a roasted bock i would think. Not that there is anything wrong with that but you will be missing ALOT of the dry charaters associated with stouts. 1/2 munich though is a very interesting idea for a stout.

full munich with roasted barley and chocolate malts will make an interesting bock

Well whatever category it falls in; I just doughed in and it smells AWESOME. Can't wait to taste the converted mash.

Do a decoction for mashout - c'mon, I DARE YOU! I double-dog dare you! I TRIPLE dog-dare you!

I've actually been doing a decoction for mash out for a while now.

This baby is on the fire and 15 minutes from the bittering addition. Smells and tastes awesome!

Brew day is almost wrapped up. My yeast is rehydrating as I type and will be pitched in about 5 minutes. It was a pretty good brew day all told. I hit all my temps and nailed my OG.

The flavour is going to be interesting and I think I'm really going to like it. It's tough to tell with all the sweetness but the roasted flavours are definitely coming through no problem. The malt backbone is also excellent and is actually fairly balanced with the roasted flavour. The bitterness seems about perfect too (BU:GU of 0.88).

So I guess it's not technically an oatmeal stout, but if it tastes half as good after it's fermented out I think this one will be going in the rotation!

I took a first gravity reading today, I fermented it fairly cool at about 64F so it was down to about what I expected (1.019). The krausen had fallen so I gave the primary a swirl and I'll see if I can get a few more points on it. I'm hoping it ends around 1.016-1.017.

As for the flavour, I'm definitely going to call it an oatmeal stout even if the base malt doesn't fit the style. It tastes very similar to my normal oatmeal stouts but with that nice malt flavour backbone I was hoping for.

It's still fairly sweet now but the roasted flavour definitely still shines through. I'll probably secondary for a month or so to meld the flavours and then bottle. So far I'm calling this one a winner though - I think it's going to be a great session beer.

I finally got around to kegging this yesterday. It was in the primary the whole time as I wanted to see how it turned out with no secondary racking at all (it's fine, no off-flavours that I can detect so far).

I have to say I was actually a little disappointed. The malty flavour that it had on 12/15 was all but gone. You'd think with all that munich it would have a nice malty backbone to the roastiness but the roastiness is still the dominant flavour to such an extent that I can BARELY taste the munich.

Final Tally

- galena is a excellent bittering hop for stouts
- munich worked really well as a base malt for this stout but if you want to taste the munich, you need to lessen the roasted malts quite a bit (probably enough that it isn't actually a stout anymore)
- this is still a very enjoyable stout and I can't wait to taste it carbonated

I bet, if you let it condition for a while, the malt will come back. Some of the roastiness will drop, but that'll still be there. I've been amazed with a few older batches lately, a couple brown-ale type brews where a lot of the roast flavors have mellowed out and the Munich I used in the background (3# or so) has really come to the fore.

That's a good point about the aging. I'll let it hang out in the keg for a couple months and see how it develops.

I imagine if you were to up the munich to put the OG within the guidlines, you would have a maltier brew at this point; although that would contradict the session beer you were going for. I wonder what a similar beer with an OG of ~1.055 with a pound of aromatic would be like. MMMMM...

Ryan_PA said:

I imagine if you were to up the munich to put the OG within the guidlines, you would have a maltier brew at this point; although that would contradict the session beer you were going for. I wonder what a similar beer with an OG of ~1.055 with a pound of aromatic would be like. MMMMM...

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I think the style guidelines went out the window when I added the munich but I do understand what you're saying. Maybe that will be the next experiment.

Oh and I think the word you're looking for regarding the latter is TASTY.

At just under 3 months from brew day I'm finally ready to pronounce judgment on this recipe.

I really like it.

The roasty flavour has mellowed out and balanced with the now more pronounced malt flavour really well. You get a very nice balance of malt flavour with a roasty finish and a nice roasty/malty nose. The oatmeal gives it a really nice velvety mouthfeel and a slight hint of oat flavour. It's basically exactly what I was hoping for when I set out on this little adventure.

This recipe is headed for the recipe database, though I'm not sure if it should actually go into the stout section; any thoughts on classification?

bradsul said:

This recipe is headed for the recipe database, though I'm not sure if it should actually go into the stout section; any thoughts on classification?

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Why would it not be a stout?
I am adding this to my list of beers to brew soon.

It's a different interpretation of a stout, but at its core - it's still a stout.

Didn't I *tell you* this beer was going to kick ass?

I agree, I'd still go with it as a stout. Munich as a base malt really is awesome, I think I'm going to formulate some more recipes with such.

the_bird said:

...Didn't I *tell you* this beer was going to kick ass?

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I know, patience is the key, I have beers that are over a year old sitting in my storage room, but in this case I guess I have to give a mea culpa. I was really excited for this one and it just got the better of me.

And thanks for the opinions guys, a stout it is and a stout it shall be!

I've posted the recipe here with both a promash and BeerXML file attachment.

It's certainly a stout, and I'm glad to hear it came out so well. Thanks for providing the recipe as a file!


TL