Drinking Homebrew Young or Early

I read an article, can't recall where, last fall that talked about they "myth" that homebrew needed to age. I read an article about a local brewpub that goes from grain to glass in about 2 weeks....good beer. When you read about homebrewing one of the advantages often listed is drinking "fresh beer". What are the advantages and disadvantages to letting beer age? Anyone drinking their beer 2 or 3 weeks after brewing?

i believe the "myth". you can go from grain to glass in 2 weeks if you force carbonate and the beer is of "standard" ABV. i have personally noticed a difference in taste as a beer ages. i regularly let the beer sit for 3 weeks in the fermenter and 3 weeks in the bottle before drinking. even after all that time as i work my way through the bottles i do notice a change in flavor. for some is really subtle and others its been drastic.

as far as the home brew actually NEEDing to be aged thats up to the brewer.

My beers are 8 weeks minimum from grain to glass. 4 weeks in primary, and about 4 weeks to carb and condition in the bottle. And even a lot of experienced keggers condition their beer for a couple weeks before serving.

You'll find that most of the people here who are drinking their beer young are bitching about how crappy it tastes, and are asking us for help. And we're telling them that patience is a virtue.

And that's why the typical posts on here are like these 2 of mine.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/carb-up-223883/#post2626926

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/secondary-fermentation-223549/#post2621790

Or this.

AZ_IPA said:

I was told the same thing. They warned of the results of fermenting in an ale pail for ~2 months.......the results? gold medal beers.

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*shrug*

That all depends on the type of beer.

bavarian hefe, i like them young.

The bigger the beer, the more time i like to let it condition.

Revvy said:

My beers are 8 weeks minimum from grain to glass. 4 weeks in primary, and about 4 weeks to carb and condition in the bottle. And even a lot of experienced keggers condition their beer for a couple weeks before serving.

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I still consider myself a novice but this is exactly what I do. Even after getting into kegging - same deal. It's really easy to avoid mistakes and make awesome beer if you just do a little reading on this forum

Two weeks is what they have to do. Tons of yeast and tight temperature control, along with filtering, and there you have it.

They get paid by the pint, so they force it through the fermenters as quickly as possible. We do this for fun, so we don't rush it.

so you are after a young barbarian?
no, sorry, a bavarian barbarian.

4 weeks is the rule.
more if possible,
less if necessary....

Seems to me that it varies from brew to brew. I have a Black IPA that has been bottle conditioning for a while and every week it gets better. But I bottled a Belgian Golden this morning that was so good right out of the primary that I had a glass for breakfast!

Totally depends on the beer.

I'd venture to say a heavy dopple, or RIS, brewed by the best craft brewery in the world would taste like ass at 2 weeks.

"Fresh" beer is a relative term. Grain to glass in 2 weeks I am sure is possible if you keg, but why not just run down to the corner and get a 12 pack of Bud Light if you are in a hurry?

I've made a lot of beers that were really good at a couple months, but they always got better the longer they sat in a cool dark place.

Just my experience.

ksbrain said:

Two weeks is what they have to do. Tons of yeast and tight temperature control, along with filtering, and there you have it.

They get paid by the pint, so they force it through the fermenters as quickly as possible. We do this for fun, so we don't rush it.

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Russian River Brewing Company brews a strong beer called Pliny the Elder in 3 weeks, you may have heard of it. Do they pitch a lot of yeast and use temperature control? Sure, but why wouldn't a homebrewer want to do those things?

Do they filter? No they do not.

Revvy said:

You'll find that most of the people here who are drinking their beer young are bitching about how crappy it tastes, and are asking us for help.

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Agreed. Yeah, some beer types can be done in 2 weeks by fermenting with a lot of yeast and force carbing in the keg. But with a lot of styles of beer, if not most, that is rushing it. And when we're talking regular homebrew guys that aren't selling it, and most still bottling, that "myth" is not a myth but quite true. Heck, my hefe was in primary for 2 weeks, just bottled it a week ago. Sure if I force carbed in a keg it would be ready in only a few days, but if I'm not doing that then how would I rush carbing in a bottle?

My Amber was 3 weeks in the primary, and even with an aggressive active fermentation, on bottling day I was still getting a bubble every few minutes from the airlock. Wonder how it would be if I rushed it and bottled or kegged in 10 days. Not a myth at all.

My question is... why do people release these articles saying it's all a myth? Selling beer commercially as a business no matter how small is NOT the same as homebrewing.


Rev.

Revvy said:

My beers are 8 weeks minimum from grain to glass. 4 weeks in primary, and about 4 weeks to carb and condition in the bottle. And even a lot of experienced keggers condition their beer for a couple weeks before serving.

You'll find that most of the people here who are drinking their beer young are bitching about how crappy it tastes, and are asking us for help. And we're telling them that patience is a virtue.

And that's why the typical posts on here are like these 2 of mine.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/carb-up-223883/#post2626926

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/secondary-fermentation-223549/#post2621790

Or this.




*shrug*

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Agree. I've never tasted a beer that was truly ready in less than 6 weeks, and that was a wheat beer and it was a little green tasting.

I guess for those that don't believe this, they can drink their beer however they want. That's the beauty of brewing your own.

I was doing a tour of a small local brewery and they mentioned their ales they will transfer to the serving tanks a week after brewing. I had their IPA and an IIPA and they were great. Not too sure how old they were though...

If you are a pro brewer with pro equipment you can pull off 10-14 day ferments. Most of us aren't so we need the extra time for things to clean up etc. I find it interesting the "can you brew it" folks Jamil etc. are always throwing 3 week old or so brews and cloning the best of them. They are brewing on top tier brew systems and have years of experience. So if you are brewing extract kits on your stove or brewing in an igloo out back you are probably going to want the advantage of leaving your beer in primary for 3-4 weeks.

Here's a sticky in the General Techniques section: Aging Beer

It discussed techniques for turning beer out quickly. I have gone grain to glass in 10 days before, just to see if I could do it, and it was great! The only problem was that it took constant attention to detail through the whole process, and I prefer to take a slightly more relaxed approach and primary for at least three weeks.

SKMO said:

Totally depends on the beer.

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I am brand new at this and let me tell you...it depends on the BEER...BREWER.

As a young brewer my patience is directly proportional to the amount of MINIMALLY conditioned beer I have on hand. 2/2/a couple of days...Drink!!!

Some math major out there could probably break down the numbers for you but my main concern is having enough fermenters and bottles and brewed beer prepared to overcome my preperation to consumption ratio (which I expect to do sometime before the end of the Mayan calender).

Until then I am drinking at the rate, perhaps faster, that the kit makers want me to drink. May e my bad, but in the words of Dave Chappelle, "It'll get you drunk."

curlyfat said:

Here's a sticky in the General Techniques section: Aging Beer

It discussed techniques for turning beer out quickly. I have gone grain to glass in 10 days before, just to see if I could do it, and it was great! The only problem was that it took constant attention to detail through the whole process, and I prefer to take a slightly more relaxed approach and primary for at least three weeks.

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Thanks.....that's what I saw.....going to review it now.

Mike

I've often wondered if concern about this, and threads like these bear a correlation to the number of batches brewed. I think a lot of these threads come from folks who have their first batch in the fermenter and are having enough time waiting for the week that their instructions say for their beer to be done, let alone the idea of letting a beer condition. SO they look for some level of rationalization...

Me, I've never understood this need to "rush" the process. This isn't a race, it's a natural process. Is it a youth thing? "Grain to glass in a week" is not my goal. Making and drinking great beer is the goal. If it takes a month, 6 months, a year, fine. That's what a pipeline is for. I'm never without beer to drink, and soon to be ready to drink. And if for some reason I am, and I don't having anything, or nothing's ready, I don't compromise that, I go but some beer. And use that rare gap in pipeline to broaden my tasting horizons by trying new things. That's how I've expanded my pallet for more beers to brew, by drinking more beers.

Maybe I'm just old......I'm not part of the instant gratification generation.

But I think once they get a pipeline going they'll understand...I mean when they brew like many of us do, for fun as much as for the beer, they'll have so much beer they can't help but having it age...THEN they get a taste and they understand, because they look back and see how a batch they forgot about has gotten better in the last few bottles...

I wrote this awhile ago...

Revvy said:

I think a lot of new brewers stress this out too much.

I mean, I sort of understand, you want to drink your beers, now.

But honestly, the difference between good beer, and great beer, is simply a few more weeks.

When you brew a lot, and start to build a pipeline, you are used to waiting, because you have batches at different stages, fermenting, secondarying, lagering, bottle conditioning and drinking.

And you can't drink everything at once anyway.

For example right now I have a red and an ipa that I am drinking currently. I have a chocolate mole porter that is sort of coming into it's own, that I am entering in a contest the first week of Feb.

I have a few bottles of my year old Belgian Strong Dark, that is still aging, and I pull one out every now and then.

I Have a vienna lager in a secondary lagering for at least another two weeks, if not more.

I am going to probably bottle my Belgian wit this weekend, or I may give it another week to clear, but more than likely I will bottle sooner rather than later since it's coming up on a month in Primary, and I'm on a wit kick right now (in fact I've been buying wits lately rather than drink my red and ipa.)

I also have a 2.5 gallon barelywine that I partigyle brewed on New Years eve which more than likely will get racked to a secondary for a few months, and then bottle conditioned for a few more.

The second runnings, which is sort of a dark amber ale, I will more than likely bottle soon, I'm not sure. I really haven't looked at it and the barelywine since I brewed it.

And I am thinking about brewing something this weekend, maybe another lager.....

As you can see I have beers at all stages or fermentation, so if something needs a few extra weeks to carb, or condition, I'm not going to sweat it. I'm about quality beer anyway. If nothings not to my liking/readiness, then I go buy some.

I've only ever made one mild, most of my beers are 1.060 or higher, so they're going to take longer.

I'm not out to win any races, I'm out to make tasty beer.

Hell I once found a bottle in the back of my fridge that had been there 3 months. It was pretty amazing; crystal clear and the cake in the bottom was so tight that you could upend the bottle over the glass and not one drop of yeast fell in the glass.

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It is not a myth!

A lot of people fail to take advantage of the very best opportunity homebrewing gives us, which is to test different options to optimize quality. I have tested myself the aging process and the results were the same whether if it’s bottled or kegged: the best flavor and aroma peaks at around 3 months, but with 2 months the brew is already very good.

Heck, with Ales, you can go from grain to glass in 1 week with full or very close to full attenuation if you want too. With a good number of healthy yeast cells, it does not take more than 48-72 hours to fully ferment your wort, and then carbonation in warm temps won't take more than 4-5 days. But, by doing that, one is throwing away an opportunity to do a much better product, a real bummer!

Revvy said:

"Grain to glass in a week" is not my goal. Making and drinking great beer is the goal. If it takes a month, 6 months, a year, fine. That's what a pipeline is for. I'm never without beer to drink, and soon to be ready to drink. And if for some reason I am, and I don't having anything, or nothing's ready, I don't compromise that, I go buy some beer. And use that rare gap in pipeline to broaden my tasting horizons by trying new things. That's how I've expanded my pallet for more beers to brew, by drinking more beers.

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You hit the nail on the head.

There are other threads scrutinizing pipeline, I know, but, IMHO, a gap in the pipeline is a nice opportunity to go out and get some good beer, particularly from microbreweries, and use the published reviews about them as guide to fine tune or expand my pallet.

How is one supposed to judge the quality of his/her homebrew without having the knowledge and taste of a well known great representation of that particular style?

Drinking down BMCs to fill the gap in the pipeline is a waste... but that's just me.

My theory is this...

Life is too short to drink bad beer. I am willing to wait for it to mature and taste great.

What's the rush?

remilard said:

Russian River Brewing Company brews a strong beer called Pliny the Elder in 3 weeks, you may have heard of it. Do they pitch a lot of yeast and use temperature control? Sure, but why wouldn't a homebrewer want to do those things?

Do they filter? No they do not.

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OK I agree filtering isn't necessary.

I don't know why a homebrewer wouldn't want to use the right amount of yeast and good temperature control. Is there some other factor that contributes to beer being ready in three weeks?

Most people have a reason (or percieved reason) for brewing the way they do. If they go for long primaries, then they often do it because they believe they get better beer from it. So of course they're going to say that long primaries are necessary.

If they only primary for a week or two then they usually believe that's all that's necessary so of course they're going to say a long primary isn't usually needed. I'm in this second camp.

Through laziness I've primaried beers longer than I originally intended...but I didn't notice any improvement. For me, it's usually 12-13 days primary but I often don't get around to drinking it for another month or so. Even at 12-13 days it's usually been 'still' for a week. I just recently got a nitro/stout faucet and was eager to get it flowing so I tapped a Mild that was right at 1 month from grain-to-glass (~2 weeks in keg)...and I can't stop drinking that damn beer it's so good.

tjp68 said:

I guess for those that don't believe this, they can drink their beer however they want. That's the beauty of brewing your own.

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I don't have to form beliefs about whether or not my < 6 week old beers are good. I have the hardware to prove it. Your situation may be different but just because you need 6 weeks doesn't mean it is a rule and anyone who thinks they have good beer sooner is wrong.

ksbrain said:

I don't know why a homebrewer wouldn't want to use the right amount of yeast and good temperature control. Is there some other factor that contributes to beer being ready in three weeks?

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I think the X-factor is $$. It's not that a homebrewer doesn't want precise temperature control, but how many do you know with dedicated breweries with jacketed conical fermentors & glycol cooling systems? Or a hemacytometer & microscope for ensuring proper yeast pitching rates? How many really want to deal with that level of process control in what is, after all, a hobby?

I think the secret is that pro brewers, if they're doing their job right, eliminate the defects & off flavors that are common in home-brewing from ever happening in the first place.

SpanishCastleAle said:

If they only primary for a week or two then they usually believe that's all that's necessary so of course they're going to say a long primary isn't usually needed. I'm in this second camp.

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I've made great beer that was only in primary for two weeks and bottle conditioned for two, and I've made great beer that was aged much longer. It's very possible to make great beer in a very short period of time, however I think the chance that the beer will be great as opposed to so so goes up significantly every week longer you let it sit in primary, and every week longer you let it sit in the bottle or the keg.

It's possible to go grain to glass, fully carbed, and tasting great, in under 3 weeks. If you bottle as soon as you're sure you hit your FG, your yeast are active enough to ferment the priming sugar almost immediately and you can have it fully carbonated in 4-5 days in the bottle.

Is that the case all the time? No. I've found that it's mostly only possible low-abv English styles, pitching a healthy quantity of yeast and fermenting in the mid-60s. If your processes are dead on, it's not particularly hard to do. I've made a particular stout a few times and a bitter that only took that long and they were great, immediately. An English pale ale only took a tad longer.

New Brew said:

I think the X-factor is $$. It's not that a homebrewer doesn't want precise temperature control, but how many do you know with dedicated breweries with jacketed conical fermentors & glycol cooling systems? Or a hemacytometer & microscope for ensuring proper yeast pitching rates? How many really want to deal with that level of process control in what is, after all, a hobby?

I think the secret is that pro brewers, if they're doing their job right, eliminate the defects & off flavors that are common in home-brewing from ever happening in the first place.

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I don't think you need a lot of money to produce clean beer that doesn't need weeks of time for off-flavors to age away. A large vessel for yeast starters, a $6 washing tub for a water-bath for your fermenter, and the time and effort to have impeccable sanitation are the only requirements, in my book.

See, if you don't create off-flavors, you don't have to age them out.

remilard said:

I don't have to form beliefs about whether or not my < 6 week old beers are good. I have the hardware to prove it. Your situation may be different but just because you need 6 weeks doesn't mean it is a rule and anyone who thinks they have good beer sooner is wrong.

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Good for you. That's great.

To be more clear, I'm not just talking about my own stuff...I've never tasted anyone else's beer that wouldn't have been better beyond 6 weeks.

I suppose we all have different motivations in this hobby (and that's what it is for me). Mine is to make the best beer I can, using reasonable and affordable (for me) procedures and equipment.

If what you are telling me is that certain recipies, using specific yeast strains, can clear and be absent of "green" taste in 10 days, then I am not doubting your word. If you are telling me that most recipes are as good at 10 days as they would be at 8 weeks (on a homebrewing scale), then I guess we'll agree to disagree.

jds said:

See, if you don't create off-flavors, you don't have to age them out.

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Bears repeating and is one of the take home points imo.

And if you're always 'aging them out' you may not be as aware of the off-flavors being created as possible.

tjp68 said:

Good for you. That's great.

To be more clear, I'm not just talking about my own stuff...I've never tasted anyone else's beer that wouldn't have been better beyond 6 weeks.

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I'm not saying that you are communicating your experience improperly but rather that you should consider the possibility that your experience is limited.

remilard said:

I'm not saying that you are communicating your experience improperly but rather that you should consider the possibility that your experience is limited.

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Yeah, I agree with this. Especially when it comes to things like hefeweizens.

remilard said:

I'm not saying that you are communicating your experience improperly but rather that you should consider the possibility that your experience is limited.

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What I am communicating is that I am skeptical that there exists some mystical art that can make green beer taste good, and that just maybe we all have different taste thresholds. Nothing wrong with that.

Just as you can't throw a few ingredients into a pot and expect it to taste like osso buco in 30 minutes, it takes awhile for beer to taste, well, like beer.

It's not just about creating off flavors through my flawed and inferior brewing technique. Flavors meld over time. Some diminish, some intensify. In most cases, it seems about right at 8 weeks. Are there exceptions? Sure. I just don't believe that a gifted brewer can accomplish this with most recipes through superior technique.

tjp68 said:

What I am communicating is that I am skeptical that there exists some mystical art that can make green beer taste good, and that just maybe we all have different taste thresholds. Nothing wrong with that.

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Can you explain exactly what green beer tastes like? What is the green flavor? Surely this is something that you can quantify with your superior taste threshold.

SC_Ryan said:

Can you explain exactly what green beer tastes like? What is the green flavor? Surely this is something that you can quantify with your superior taste threshold.

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I'm not the one claiming superiority in this thread. I acknowledged that what I believe tastes "ready" might not be what someone else does.

As far as describing what green beer tastes like...probably about like what you are drinking right now.

jds said:

I don't think you need a lot of money to produce clean beer that doesn't need weeks of time for off-flavors to age away. A large vessel for yeast starters, a $6 washing tub for a water-bath for your fermenter, and the time and effort to have impeccable sanitation are the only requirements, in my book.

See, if you don't create off-flavors, you don't have to age them out.

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This is my thinking. Perhaps I'm impatient, but if I'm creating off flavors in my beer, I'd rather correct my process than just wait for them to go away.

This would be an interesting experiment, however: Most microbreweries are run by pretty accessible folks and would probably tell you when they plan to package a batch. So, it would be possible to buy some beer, hang on to it for 8 weeks after the "born on date", then pick up some beer directly from the brewery on their next packaging run. That way you could do a side-by-side comparison and settle the question. Of course you could do that with homebrew as well, but I know I'm not at the level of consistency yet where I could guarantee that one batch didn't just come out better than the other.

I have an brew in primary for just over two weeks now (OG of 1.054) that I'll be pulling a sample from today to get a reading on, and taste... Chances are, though, it will run until this weekend before it gets bottled up.

I'm finding that my brews with an OG of under 1.060 are good with a 2-3 week primary, then 3 week carbonating/bottle conditioning time frame. 1.060-1.080 are usually in the 3-4 week primary range (maybe longer depends on how they taste). Over 1.080 and all bets are off. I have one that's aging on some oak chips that was brewed on 12/20/10. It was in primary for a month, and has been on oak ever since then... I sampled it late last week, and it's getting closer to my target flavor profile. Chances are, I'll prime and bottle it up this weekend too. I brewed on Sunday, hitting 1.072 for the OG... I plan on letting that one ride for two weeks before pulling a sample from it. Chances are, it will go 3-4 weeks before it gets primed and bottled up.

One way to avoid off flavors, I'm finding, is to let the wort ferment in the right temperature range (I have no control right now, but the weather is helping me out) and to NOT have really violent/active fermentation going on during the first few days to a week. The last brew I made that took off like a rocket, blowing foam through the airlock, needed time to combat the off flavors such activity produced. I did use a starter, and used a 6 gallon carboy (luckily) but it still shot foam through the airlock in under 7 hours. In the brews since then, I've done what I could to ensure more relaxed fermentation rates. More of a 'slow and steady' approach. I'm also typically making my starters about two days before brew day, so that the high activity inside the starter is done, with a nice sized yeast cake on the bottom. I used that method for yesterday's brew and it's going nicely right now. It was active (nice krausen inside the fermenter) between 7 and 10 hours after pitching the yeast. I did aerate this wort better (used the same home-made tool I used in the mead batches to aerate) and used a little nutrient (wanted to ensure happy yeast with the higher OG of the wort)... Stressing the yeast less makes for better beer... Learning what works for YOU to get there, makes you a happier brewer.

I'm making ales right now, styles from the British Isles... Which, I believe, are a bit more forgiving than some of the other styles. I don't need to maintain ultra tight temperature ranges, and such. I'm also picking yeast that is happy within the temperature ranges I can keep them at. I do see myself making some lager's at a point in the future. But that will be once I've moved to a larger place, and can set up properly for it.

I don't need to have beer from grain to glass in under two weeks. For one thing, I'm not kegging, so it's pretty much not going to happen right there. If a brew is 'ok' or even 'good' at two weeks, it could be even better given just a little longer. Of course, since all of my brew's OG's have been over 1.050, having them ready for bottles in under two weeks just isn't going to happen.

As already pointed out, this is a hobby... Granted, people tend to get passionate about it. I think we'll always have the two camps of people wanting to have their beer done NOW, and those willing to wait for the beer to be ready. Even when I get a fermentation chamber (or make one) I'll give each brew the amount of time IT needs to complete, or be ready.

One good way, in my opinion, to learn patience in brewing is to brew something really big. A hefty BarleyWine, Braggot, or even a sack mead. Talking about something that won't be ready for 10+ months. With those, you'll learn to appreciate aging, and see how they change over time. Even just a few months makes a difference...

tjp68 said:

As far as describing what green beer tastes like...probably about like what you are drinking right now.

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Actually I have a pretty good pipeline. The Brown Ale I have on tap right now is probably just about 10 weeks old. I can't say that I think its any better than the other half of the batch that I tapped at 3 weeks.

My question stands. What does the green flavor taste like? If you can't quantify it then the improvement from aging that you are experiencing is likely placebo.

What about lagering? Is everyone also saying lagered beer turnaround can be done in two weeks? Lagered beers - lagers, pilsners, etc, seem to be the most common on the market, so since we're talking about 2 weeks grain to glass do you all still feel it's easy to do with lagers?


Rev.

I'm not so sure that we're all talking about the same thing. I've noticed a significant difference in things like mouthfeel, flavor, and the length of finish on beers that have spent extra time in the bottle. It's not that there were off flavors that needed to age out, the beer just tasted kind of thin, the spices we had added were too strong as compared to the body, and there was no lasting flavor, it was gone as soon as you swallowed. After a month or two in the bottle, it got noticeably better, and i wasn't the only one that thought that as we did an unveiling of sorts with friends after 3 weeks in the bottle and then the same people tasted it again two months later at a different get together.

That being said, we have a local microbrew here in town that I swear tastes better if you drink it from the actual brewery after taking a tour. I feel like the only logical explanation for that is freshness.