Best Vacuum Sealer

Looking to get a vacuum sealer for hop purchases. Don't have much of a use for it outside of hops so a big fancy vacuum sealer isn't needed. I've narrowed it down to a cheap foodsaver, "Alvin" brake bleeder type sealer or a Pump n Seal.

My big question is does anyone know what vacuum rating a foodsaver or brake bleeder type vacuum sealer are able to pull? The pump n seal site gives some vacuum readings but I don't really trust the site entirely especially since the testing was done in 1993. Links below for more info on the different products I'm looking at. I'm leaning towards the Pump n seal due to the high vaccum it pulls, the simplicity of it and the low cost.

http://www.pump-n-seal.com/
http://www.instructables.com/id/The-Alvin-Vacuum-Sealer/

I am in the process of building the instructables one I have the same brake bleeder at work it will pull 20 inches of merc easily. the only item i havent picked up yet is the lid attachment.
I need to get it done because I have a lb of centinial on the way

There is an absolute lower limit threshold established by Atmospheric pressure beneath which no practical vacuum can go. 30 inches Hg is about it. You can easily pull that with a hand pump. A three year old can do it.

If you can pull that much Hg you are at the absolute threshold of vacuum for all practical purposes. Below which all one is doing is counting molecules not air pressure.

Years ago I worked in a Ultra High Vacuum Physics lab. We'd use rotary vein and diaphragm pumps to pump down to the molecular flow regime (movable air) and get 30 inches of Hg. During the initial pumping stage the chambers would be baked at about 350 Degs F and higher up to the tolerances of the various equipment, to cook off or carbonize all the dirt that couldn't be scrubbed out.

Below Molecular Flow, we'd use mercury vapor pumps (they were a real hoot), turbomolecular pumps, Liquid Helium cold fingers, Getter pumps and some really weird old school guys using small glass systems would immerse their chambers in liquid helium or nitrogen turning the whole chamber into a cold finger. .

I liked the turbo pumps best. Less futzing around with them. The are like like miniature Jet Engines with stacked payers of angled veins with progressively acute tilt angles in each layer that would spin at up to 40 to 80 Thousand RPM.

When pumping at those molecular flow regimes the idea of pumping is pretty a misnomer. There is no actual pumping going on. What the pumps (of whatever type) do is take advantage of the adsorption and desorption of molecular particles. Things at the molecular level would adsorb (stick into) the first mole layer of the vacuum chamber's interior. Then those particles would desorb ( become unattached) and with some energy shoot off in any given direction. The molecular particles did not behave like billiard balls on a pool table, they went any damn direction.
When by happenstance and luck they fell into a pump they would be come trapped by the mechanism the pump used to capture them.

So that's it. After you get down to 30 inches you are pretty much just trapping random molecules by applying sophisticated traps from which they do not easily escape back into the chamber.

We'd get vacuum measured in Torr, to about 3 or 4 time 10 to the negative power of 14. Now they use Milibar 'cause it's so cool to sound all Euro, but numbers like that are only representing how many molecule or atomic particles are in a given volume of space in the chamber.

Cliff,

That is some fascinating info. I was aware of the atmospheric limit and I've often wondered how you might pump "nothing" as you approached the limit. Pumping "something" is much different than pumping nearly "nothing" I plan to buy the Harbor Freight air powered vacuum pump, but it has Acme threaded fittings designed for evacuating automotive air conditioning systems. I'm hoping that the Acme thread adapter has standard 1/4" NPT threads where it connects to the pump and that I can simply remove the adapter and hook something up to make it work. The vacuum pump is only $9.95 on sale at HF, so the risk is minimal if it doesn't work out. The pump with the mason jar thingy should work if all goes as planned.

Scut_Monkey said:

http://www.pump-n-seal.com/
http://www.instructables.com/id/The-Alvin-Vacuum-Sealer/

Click to expand...

I have a Pump-N-Seal and am very pleased with it. The instructables method looks appealing but I've heard some people say it can be difficult to get the lid off without damaging it. With the Pump-N-Seal, you can lift the check-tab to release the vacuum before you try to pop off the lid.

The Alvin sealer is what I use. The harbor freight pump gets down to around ~23 inHg. If you just put your finger over it, (no tubing, no jar), you can get around ~25 inHg, so I suppose if you pumped for hours on a mason jar, you'd get ~25 inHg.

As for getting the lid back off, it's a piece of cake. If you use a metal something or other, you can bend the rim, but if you just use your thumbs and some grunting, or something rubber, (mallet head, pencil eraser, etc....) it comes of no problemmo. Getting the lid off with difficulty is GOOD! It means you have a great vacuum inside.

So I'm still thinking the pump n seal would be best. Essentially I think all of three of the options I'm looking at would work great but I like the idea of using the pump n seal to seal any jar laying around the house. Plus they have the highest rated vacuum reading of "28.9 mmHg"
I would like a foodsaver but their prices can be a little too high for me even when purchased used on fleabay.

Just for comparison (not sure if it even matters)
Pump n Seal: 28.9mmHg
Foodsaver: 24.2mmHg (according to pump n seal site)
Alvin vacuum sealer: 23mmHg

While watching the pump-n-seal video I was struck by the need to use some oil to facilitate the zip lock seal on a bag.
I just don't like the idea of adding that one element to the beer.

There was a lot of research done trying to use olive oil as a yeast nutrient instead of oxygen (I think it was instead of oxygen) the numbers they were working in were like 30 or 50 decimal places. It was staggering how little you had to use. I did a little crude guestimating math on it from a 5 gallon batch perspective not 50,000 hectoliters as the big commercials houses do. It looked like all one need to do was stick the point of a pin into a droplet of olive oil - but only just barely - then throw the pin in the beer to get the amount any near right.

With that in mind I looked askance at using any oil to facilitate the seal on a hops baggie.

But for doing a Glass mason Jar it's a whole different story. No oil needed.

I'm thinking that if I go with a vacuum sealer it'll be integral you know pump down and effect a melt seal all in one operation.

Cliff897 said:

While watching the pump-n-seal video I was struck by the need to use some oil to facilitate the zip lock seal on a bag.
I just don't like the idea of adding that one element to the beer.

Click to expand...

Yeah, if you want to use bags, the Pump-N-Seal is a bit of a kludge. I use quart mason jars for storing my hops (1 jar holds a pound of pellets perfectly) so it's not an issue for me.

I think they should have never shown how to seal a bag in that video. It makes the product look like a complete turd. I would only be using it for jars which it seems to work very well with.

Just searched ebay and found nothing. I hate that site.

I've looked all over for one the past month on ebay. That was my preferred choice. But I can't justify paying $40 for the pumpnseal. Ended up just buying a hand battery one and the mason jar sealer hopefully that works just as well.

mosquitocontrol said:

I've looked all over for one the past month on ebay. That was my preferred choice. But I can't justify paying $40 for the pumpnseal. Ended up just buying a hand battery one and the mason jar sealer hopefully that works just as well.

Click to expand...

They are a little expensive especially when you consider that they have been around since 1980 something. If I find a cheap foodsaver I'll snatch it up but they aren't easy to find. None on craigslist or any good deals on ebay.

I think for hop storage the pump n seal would work great but if I ever need a vacuum sealer for anything besides jars it would suck.

Well I pulled a complete 180 and just bought a foodsaver off ebay. I finally found a good deal for $68 shipped for a $140 retail foodsaver v3440.

Below is the seller if anyone is interested and the foodsaver product site for that model.
http://www.foodsaver.com/Product.aspx?id=c&cid=87&pid=246
If anyone else is interested the seller seems to have quite a few of them. I don't know how to link to his products but the seller name is "bpl177"

Catt22 said:

Cliff,

That is some fascinating info. I was aware of the atmospheric limit and I've often wondered how you might pump "nothing" as you approached the limit. Pumping "something" is much different than pumping nearly "nothing" I plan to buy the Harbor Freight air powered vacuum pump, but it has Acme threaded fittings designed for evacuating automotive air conditioning systems. I'm hoping that the Acme thread adapter has standard 1/4" NPT threads where it connects to the pump and that I can simply remove the adapter and hook something up to make it work. The vacuum pump is only $9.95 on sale at HF, so the risk is minimal if it doesn't work out. The pump with the mason jar thingy should work if all goes as planned.

Click to expand...

Catt22, how did the Harbor Freight air powered vacuum pump work for you? how much Hg are you able to get and how fast?
thanks

Scut_Monkey said:

Well I pulled a complete 180 and just bought a foodsaver off ebay. I finally found a good deal for $68 shipped for a $140 retail foodsaver v3440.

Below is the seller if anyone is interested and the foodsaver product site for that model.
http://www.foodsaver.com/Product.aspx?id=c&cid=87&pid=246
If anyone else is interested the seller seems to have quite a few of them. I don't know how to link to his products but the seller name is "bpl177"

Click to expand...

I can't quote you specifics on how much vacuum one of those pulls, but I have been growing and packaging my own hops for 3 years and the foodsaver works great. I also use it to repackage leftover pellet hops and the last porter I made I used an oak spiral from a package of two, vacuum sealed the extra for next time. Not to mention how much meat, cheese, etc we have sealed over the years. Awesome product.

I have a couple of cheap foodsavers and bags I use. Got a freezer full of hops now and no issues whatsoever.

I mostly use whole leaf hops.

The method on the two sites seem feasible. And yes they are cheaper ways. I have a Maxkson vacuum sealer, bought from crazysales, to seal hops; it was at great discount and cheap...cheap, cheap... is how my friends label me. Convenient to seal and open with a vacuum sealer. Also resealing is solid.

Floatzel said:

The method on the two sites seem feasible. And yes they are cheaper ways. I have a Maxkson vacuum sealer, bought from crazysales, to seal hops; it was at great discount and cheap...cheap, cheap... is how my friends label me. Convenient to seal and open with a vacuum sealer. Also resealing is solid.

Click to expand...

You realize this was around 4 years old and you bumped it right?

Costco sells one with the accessory for mason jars you just have to buy the mason jar small/large mouth attachments separately.

I use a Foodsaver. I prefer the bags because they take up way less space than jars. I have over 20 varieties of hops, from less than 1 ounce, up to a pound. Most of the hops are in the shelves in the door of the freezer.