Guinness stout clone

This a brew by request from a co-worker. What makes Guinness, well, Guinness?

I've made beer for over 2 years now, but tried for the most part to not "clone" existing brews. (They do a fine job so why duplicate it) My co-worker wants Guinness, not just a stout of my own creation.

I know they use flaked barley, black malt and roasted barley, and base malt. What proportions? Carb level? Irish ale yeast?

Any help would be great folks, thanks in advance!

From the "similar threads" at the bottom of this page: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f68/ode-arthur-irish-stout-guinness-clone-28239/

Maybe coworker should go to the store and buy some Guinness???? If he doesn't want your creation....

hope2perc said:

Maybe coworker should go to the store and buy some Guinness???? If he doesn't want your creation....

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Lol, well you and I share the same philosophy. If I get close (mouthfeel, roastyness, creamyhead) I think I will have defended homebrewing well enough. But this is a beer for a first time homebrew drinker, so I want to do the community proud! Ivm sure we've all had this experience before.

My money is on any home brewed dry stout on nitrogen and your co worker wont know the difference

thesmithsera said:

My money is on any home brewed dry stout on nitrogen and your co worker wont know the difference

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That's a really good point. Anything not on nitro won't taste like he expects it to.

ktblunden said:

That's a really good point. Anything not on nitro won't taste like he expects it to.

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I gave a milk stout to my brother that was mashed at 155 and finished at 1.025 with 1# of Lactose and he told me that it was a good attempt at a stout, but real stouts had more body! You can tell he said, because it didn't do what nitro does in the cup when you pour it.

The beer had tons of body. . .

When I tried Guinness next to my Irish Stout, I noticed Guinness had a sourness to it. In one of the recipes in the database, it is suggested to let a bottle of Guinness sit on the countertop in a bowl for about 4 days to get the sour process working then add to end of boil or something. I didn't do that, and I like mine a lot better. FWIW.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f68/guinness-draught-clone-100740/

ktblunden said:

That's a really good point. Anything not on nitro won't taste like he expects it to.

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That would be a problem. I don't keg yet... Should I carb at a higher level to help this? I had planed to only use around 3oz of priming sugar.

hope2perc said:

When I tried Guinness next to my Irish Stout, I noticed Guinness had a sourness to it. In one of the recipes in the database, it is suggested to let a bottle of Guinness sit on the countertop in a bowl for about 4 days to get the sour process working then add to end of boil or something. I didn't do that, and I like mine a lot better. FWIW.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f68/guinness-draught-clone-100740/

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Looking at some of the recipes I can see that acid addition. Is that really needed to achieve an authentic Guinness taste?

According to MY tatebuds. I noticed it when I tried it side-by-side with mine. Mouthfeel can be achieved pretty much with oats, but it's no nitrogen.

Guinness is slightly soured. That's by far the hardest element to reproduce on a homebrewing level. Nitro is also problematic for most home brewers.

hope2perc said:

Maybe coworker should go to the store and buy some Guinness???? If he doesn't want your creation....

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I'm with you. Telling an experienced homebrewer to make a big commercial beer is like going to a really good Italian restaurant and saying "Chef, I want you to make me something exactly like Chef Boyardee. Moreover, I am going to evaluate your talents as a chef based solely on how faithfully you reproduce Chef Boyardee."

Serve your co-worker a dynamite stout of your own creation. He might learn something. If he doesn't like it, more for you.

JonM said:

I'm with you. Telling an experienced homebrewer to make a big commercial beer is like going to a really good Italian restaurant and saying "Chef, I want you to make me something exactly like Chef Boyardee. Moreover, I am going to evaluate your talents as a chef based solely on how faithfully you reproduce Chef Boyardee."

Serve your co-worker a dynamite stout of your own creation. He might learn something. If he doesn't like it, more for you.

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Totally

65% pale malt
25% flaked barley
10% 500L roasted barley
20-30 IBUs, bittering only

This is a pretty popular recipe that will get you a great stout that's more flavorful than guinness draught and doesn't have to be served ice cold like they recommend.

JonM said:

I'm with you. Telling an experienced homebrewer to make a big commercial beer is like going to a really good Italian restaurant and saying "Chef, I want you to make me something exactly like Chef Boyardee. Moreover, I am going to evaluate your talents as a chef based solely on how faithfully you reproduce Chef Boyardee."
Serve your co-worker a dynamite stout of your own creation. He might learn something. If he doesn't like it, more for you.

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Lol. Yes, that looks to be the case. Its brew day, so I'm taking a quick trip to the lhbs and pulling the trigger. Just as an fyi I'm integrating the following advice that everyone had suggested:

More flaked barley! Going to mash a pound with a pound of 2 row to convert.

Sour! Actually going to "sour" a Guinness outside of primary, then boil and mix on bottling day. (Its already brew day)

Use dme for priming for smaller bubbles! Not ppositive this is true, but it can't hurt!

I happen to agree with the folks who are saying we as homebrewers make great stuff, but this "challenge" was not just for my tastebuds alone. Thanks a lot for all the feedback and discussion. Its what I love about HBT!

One suggestion, when time comes to serve it, give him an actual Guinness first without telling him.

That way, if he's going to start talking smack about your brew, you get to point out that he's a tool.

When you pour it for him, do the big hypodermic needle trick to the glass to get it to cascade. It gives a beer a nice creamy head-pretty close to a nitro pour. This my Dry Irish Stout

What's this needle trick? That beer looks great!

I found it on this site somewhere a while back, but I'm not sure where.

Take a big needle like the ones you use to inject marinade into meat, suck up some beer from the glass and inject it quickly back into the beer. I don't know anything about the science, but it causes the beer to cascade just like a nitro pour and gives you a very creamy head with tiny bubbles.

I read somewhere that the beer has to be under-carbed for it to work, but I'm not sure that is the case

Yeah, I've done the syringe trick many times. You DO NOT want to do it on any "normally" carbonated beer or it makes a huge foamy mess.

It does work quite well though.

Mike37 said:

Yeah, I've done the syringe trick many times. You DO NOT want to do it on any "normally" carbonated beer or it makes a huge foamy mess.

It does work quite well though.

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I imagine that in a normal carbed beer you could probably do it with less beer in the syringe and a inject it less violently to make it work without the mess?

I'm not sure though. I'll have to give it a try later

This is the syringe post https://www.homebrewtalk.com/entries/free-the-nitro.html

CGVT said:

I imagine that in a normal carbed beer you could probably do it with less beer in the syringe and a inject it less violently to make it work without the mess?

I'm not sure though. I'll have to give it a try later

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Yup, it can be done. Also helps to start with less beer in the glass too.

It's not good enough to clone for my taste. LOL

I tried the syringe trick last night with my coffee stout and it worked like a charm. I will definitely have to do this from now on with any stout I make.

I use the syringe trick on all my home brewed stouts now.

I do a real gentle pour to minimize head formation leaving at least an inch of headspace in the glass. Typically I use about 2ml of beer in the syringe and squirt it in as forcefully as I can holding the tip of the syringe just above the surface of the stout. It works out pretty good. The first time I tried it I used 5ml and made a huge mess.

I read somewhere once that Guiness used to include a syringe in their bottled six packs once upon a time.

CGVT said:

I found it on this site somewhere a while back, but I'm not sure where.

Take a big needle like the ones you use to inject marinade into meat, suck up some beer from the glass and inject it quickly back into the beer. I don't know anything about the science, but it causes the beer to cascade just like a nitro pour and gives you a very creamy head with tiny bubbles.

I read somewhere that the beer has to be under-carbed for it to work, but I'm not sure that is the case

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Lol, ok i'll give that a try. I've got some syringes we use for the kids medicine that should do it. Dont look forward to the public conversation with the wife about it!

"Where are going with a case of beer and a baby syringe?...."

Ha!

BTW, I have a pretty decent Guinness style dry stout recipe in my recipes, (drop down in my profile)if you want to give that a try.

I like Guinness quite a bit and my recipe works for me.

WilliamSlayer said:

Lol, ok i'll give that a try. I've got some syringes we use for the kids medicine that should do it. Dont look forward to the public conversation with the wife about it!

"Where are going with a case of beer and a baby syringe?...."

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I used the exact same thing. My wife just rolled her eyes. I use those to measure out lactic acid for mash and sparge water, too.

I made the dry Irish Stout extract kit from MWS. I thought it tasted pretty good relative to Guiness. I have a few left...gotta try that syringe trick.

EDIT: I tried the syringe trick. Word of advice to those that are going to try it. Heed my advice to heed the advice of those that came before us...

Start small, or you WILL have beer all over the place.

whoaru99 said:

I made the dry Irish Stout extract kit from MWS. I thought it tasted pretty good relative to Guiness. I have a few left...gotta try that syringe trick.

EDIT: I tried the syringe trick. Word of advice to those that are going to try it. Heed my advice to heed the advice of those that came before us...

Start small, or you WILL have beer all over the place.

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That sounds like sound (and sticky) advice....

Bubbling away nicely after just 16 hours from pitch...

Gah! Temp spike today up to 79! Stuck a fan in front of it...I sooo need a temp control chamber:-(

hey guys i think acid malt is used to get that sour taste in guinness im actually going trying it in an irish stout next week.

i love my stout and drink guinness in my local (county limerick man here) and id love something to drink as a session beer that tastes similar or better to be honest

be a while before its ready but if i think of it ill report back how it turned out and the recipe too if you guys are interested
happy brewing

Using acid malt would make sense to me. It seems much more controlable. And would make me feell better rather than "spoiling" a few beers! Plz let me know how it works out !

Doesmy spoiled Guinness need to be "skunked" as well?

No.

hope2perc said:

No.

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Thks.

Update-

Wow. Thats tasty...

More like Foreign Extra Stout in taste than Draught, and that's a good thing IMO. Added just 3oz priming sugar, so the carblevel is nice and low. Good head retention, just not huge ammount (low carbination).

My co-worker was very impressed and I am now the wine/beer guy at work.

Tucking this recipie away for a repeat later.

WilliamSlayer said:

Update-

Wow. Thats tasty...

More like Foreign Extra Stout in taste than Draught, and that's a good thing IMO. Added just 3oz priming sugar, so the carblevel is nice and low. Good head retention, just not huge ammount (low carbination).

My co-worker was very impressed and I am now the wine/beer guy at work.

Tucking this recipie away for a repeat later.

Click to expand...

Sounds like it turned out pretty good. Congrats!!