The birth of Zeus. (Non typical brewstand build.)

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Updated drawings.

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Its 93" long without the shelf and 11' 4" long with it. With the grain mill attached, its 12' 4" long.

Basically, what I hope to do is back a vehicle out of the garage, wheel this in, fold it out, set up the vessels, hook up the hoses and start brewing. The stand is designed so that everything is accessible from the front, so it could be backed right up to a wall (with a gap so it doesn't start a fire) when in use, taking up as little space as possible.

Its been designed so that nothing sits on the floor while brewing, meaning that it could be moved in the middle of a brew session. My old stand had a flip out shelf that relied on a leg that sat on the floor when out. It was a pain to move in the middle of a brew session.

Its 74" from the heat shield wall beside the mash tun to the end of the shelf. 30 inches of that is sink, but its better than having no table area at all.

The longer sink is going to allow for a bit more storage room on the lower shelf. The shelf under the burners will be entirely full with vessels when in storage.

The fawcet isn't drawn, but it goes right in line with the sink divider, so its now beside the hot water heater controls, instead of in front of them, which is a good thing.

When the vessels are in storage on the lower shelf, the side shelf will sit over the burners creating a work area without folding anything out. I'm hoping with hot water and a sink its a nice set up for racking and kegging. If it is, I can do all that in the garage too, which will make my wife pretty happy.

This thing is more than a brew stand. Its also a brewing work center. Its not as nice as a dedicated room in the house, but given I don't have a room in the house its the best I can do.

The sink holds 9x17x30/231 = 19.8 gallons when full. Say 15 gallons max in use. Sink (15 gallons) + mash tun (15 gallons) + first boil kettle (10 gallons) + second boil kettle (15 gallons) = 55 gallons of usable liquid capacity on the stand. 55 x 8.33 lbs/gallon = 458 pounds of liquid, plus the gear on the stand.

That is a load of about 150 pounds per long tube. I'm glad I went with 2 x 2 tubing instead of 1.5 x 1.5 tubing.

I can't wait to use this thing.
 
I got the channels off the sink. I'll share this in case anyone runs into a similar problem.

I ended up sharpening the end of a medium sized chisel to a very fine point and then driving it between the channels and the lip of the sink.

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It worked very well with very little metal distortion other than very small divits where the spot welds pulled before they broke.

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I don't know how this could have been avoided as the thickness of the chisel meant that many of the spot welds broke before the chisel edge reached them. Essentially the chisel became a tool that pulled the channels from the lip, rather than slicing the welds.

A thinner chisel may have helped, but when the chisel was actually cutting the first few spot welds, it took a fair amount of hammering to break them. Thus a smaller, thinner chisel may have not been up for the task.

The broken spot welds left tiny sharp needles on the underside of the sink lip. I had to grind them off.

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Other than the divits, the lip material is largely in pristine condition, though there was a tiny bit of local bending and very minor stretching. I suspect the divits could be taken out entirely with a belt sander and welding the sink edge to the stand will take out any waviness that there is.

The build continues. Now that I have my sink ready, I can actually start building the frame. Yippee !
 
Why the table top on one side? Why not half on one end, half on the other? That seems like a long walk to get things. Just a thought.
 
Why the table top on one side? Why not half on one end, half on the other? That seems like a long walk to get things. Just a thought.

I wanted a desk type area to work on for weighing hops, keeping notes, etc, as well as a washing area to set down clean things, let things dry, etc. For that purpose, I like having one larger table top rather than 2 small ones. I had a similar setup on my old brewing stand and it was great. Its very handy to have a surface "right there" to put things on. Before that, I was storing things in a tray on the ground, on the (hot) brewstand itself, on a chair, etc. It was chaos.

As far as a place to set things while brewing, the stand has a detachable tray that goes in front of the vessels to set things on. The tray is 5" x 40 inches long. Its isolated from the stand itself so it won't be hot. Its on the drawings above. i hope that tray holds a lot of the more commonly needed brewing items for me.

Things like stirring spoons, hoses, etc will hang on a hanger on the boil kettle end of the stand.

As far as being a long way to walk, its less than 8 feet from the center of the far boil kettle to the inner part of the shelf and there is a tray in front of the kettles. That is WAY better than how I used to brew, especially back in the day when I was cleaning in the kitchen and mashing and boiling in the garage and they were 40 feet and some stairs apart.

I think that putting the sink right on the stand will address and simplify the "sanitation and cleaning is 80% of brewing" aspect of a brew day. And hopefully some smart automation will address the other 30% known as "wait for the pot to get up to temp and then watch it closely for hours".

We'll see how this all plays out when I use it.

Back to welding on my stand...
 
After I cut the channel off the sink, I started lengthening the long members. (4 of them.)

Here is how I clamped them, so they would stay straight when they were welded.
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It worked pretty well. They were straight when I was done.

Close up of the prep, ie bevel the edges for better penetration and so that the weld doesn't stick way out.
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TIG welded. Not the prettiest, but good penetration and a strong weld.
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Rough grind down. I'll hit is with a flapper wheel and sanding disk and the joint should be more or less invisible.
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I'm glad that job is done.
 
I tacked welded the upper frame together to get a feel where things should go, specifically, where I need to drill holes. I'll break the welds to drill the holes and then weld it up permanently later.

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Excuse the mess in my garage. I have a few projects on the go, with lots of things currently being stored.

These are the 11 gallon vessels. I haven't bought the 20.5 gallon pots yet. They are larger in diameter, 18 7/8" versus 15", IIRC. There will be very little room between the big pots when they are used.

The pots are sitting on a piece of rack I had handy. The pots are really going to sit on grills above the burners, not the stand itself. I'm doing that so the stand doesn't get hot from being heated up by the burners.

This is the garage, cleaned up, that I will be brewing in. Its heated and insulated. I'll probably ferment in it too.

I'm not exactly sure how I am doing to hold the sink in, now that I cut off the channels. The channels had to be cut off to fit it in that frame. I just need to come up with some other way to hold it in. I was going to weld it in, but the fit is so tight that I have to remove the sink to get the nut on the faucet. So welding is probably out.

The camera angle makes it look longer than it is. It is long, but when you stand in front of it and visualize brewing activities, it isn't bad.
 
You're quite the hand at welding.. I have 15 years as a machinist but -0- welding experience. It's something that I really want to learn how to do but just haven't gotten around to.
 
I think by the time this thing is done you'll need to buy a 12' trailer for it ;)

It fits in the bed of a truck with an 8 foot bed, which I happen to have. Its going to take a couple guys to lift it up there though.
 
You're quite the hand at welding.. I have 15 years as a machinist but -0- welding experience. It's something that I really want to learn how to do but just haven't gotten around to.

Thanks.

Those are among some of the first TIG welds I've ever done. I have lots of stick welding time, but not very much MIG or TIG.

I have to say that TIG welder is the cat's meow for this project. I'm always amazed at the arc and heat control they have. It was a piece of cake welding that tubing. I was in a hurry and just throwing down whatever bead I could to get something together, knowing that they were going to be ground down. I hope to have prettier welds when I try harder.
 
How are you getting water into Zeus? Is see the hot water heater for heating water, but it isn't clear what the source of your water is going to be. Is the plan to run a hose to the nearest faucet? Is there water filtration on there that I just can not see?
 
How are you getting water into Zeus? Is see the hot water heater for heating water, but it isn't clear what the source of your water is going to be. Is the plan to run a hose to the nearest faucet? Is there water filtration on there that I just can not see?

Zeus needs a pressurized water connection to run, or at least use the hot water heater, run the sink and fill the mash tun via the manifold. This connection is provided by an RV hose connected to a cold water faucet.

Zeus could always be used without a pressurized water connection by not using the hot water heater, sink and by manually filling the vessels with water.

Zeus also has connections for compressed air, natural gas (or propane), 120VAC and discharge water.

I didn't draw these connections. They happen via a series of valves on the boil kettle side of the lower shelf. All (most) of the wiring and plumbing for the stand is located under the lower shelf.

FYI, IIRC the hot water heater needs 15 PSI to operate properly.

A big problem that I haven't resolved yet is how to have pressurized water for the hot water heater and sink but yet low pressure (9 PSI) hot and cold water for the manifold. The manifold pressures need to be low or a wrongly opened or closed valve will submit the pump head and silicone hoses to the full supply pressure (30+ PSI), something neither of them can tolerate.

I haven't spent any time diagramming or explaining this part of Zeus. I'm hoping it will become apparent when I build it.
 
It's looking awesome!
Where is the water heaters flue going to discharge?

I'm not sure how you could get low pressure hot through a water heater as that's 1 of the reasons we have them the only way I personally can think of doing it is

Getting the smallest copper cylinder possible and having a small header tank and an immersion heater in the tank and using your heater for your tap....but it wouldn't be worth it for the price of the heater and it wouldn't be portable unless you had the cylinder set up on another frame with casters connected with flexible /push fit john guest fittings, snap on snap off for storage,

Hope you can come up with a way though!
 
Or it's just came to me there are fittings called pressure reducing valves, we in the uk use them on new build houses to limit the pressure for the plastic pipe workload only thing is I'm not sure how low you can turn then down, I could phone my merchants tomorrow if that would help?
 
It's looking awesome!
Thanks !

Where is the water heaters flue going to discharge?
Probably just straight up as per the drawing. The flue pipe and an elbow come with it in a kit. Both are stainless steel. I might put on a big ole exhaust stack for effect...

I'm not sure how you could get low pressure hot through a water heater as that's 1 of the reasons we have them the only way I personally can think of doing it is
The heater MUST be run on pressurized water. I believe there is a pressure sensor inside it and it will shut down on low pressure. The pressure is needed to keep the water from turning to steam inside the heat exchanger. It exits the hot water heater at 140F with the stock thermostat and 180F (IIRC) with the accessory thermostat, but parts of the heat exchanger might be hotter than that.

Getting the smallest copper cylinder possible and having a small header tank and an immersion heater in the tank and using your heater for your tap....but it wouldn't be worth it for the price of the heater and it wouldn't be portable unless you had the cylinder set up on another frame with casters connected with flexible /push fit john guest fittings, snap on snap off for storage,

Hope you can come up with a way though!

All I need to do is have 2 water pressure regulators, one on the hot water line/valve going into the manifold and the other on the cold water line/valve going into the manifold.

The only thing i don't know about is the temp rating of the regulators. I doubt that its standard practice to have a water pressure regulator on a hot water line.

The other thing i could do is put a safety relief valve set at 5 PSI on the manifold and just allow it to blow off if the pressure is exceeded.

The only thing I need either of these for is because I want hot and cold water valves going directly into the manifold so that vessels can be filled, things can be flushed, etc. Neither the pump head nor the silicone hoses are designed for high pressure, thus the need for something to protect them. As long as one runs the manifold valves properly, neither of these components would see high pressure, but on brew day, when you have a 1000 things on your mind, I can't rely on myself to remember that. Thus the need for protection in the form of a relief valve or upstream pressure regulators.
 
The only part I see that might be a problem is only four casters. With the added length and the potential weights you are going to put on it I would probably add two more to the center. Just to make sure you don't end up flexing the middle or over stressing it. Stainless should hold up but i wouldn't risk it.
 
The only part I see that might be a problem is only four casters. With the added length and the potential weights you are going to put on it I would probably add two more to the center. Just to make sure you don't end up flexing the middle or over stressing it. Stainless should hold up but i wouldn't risk it.

The weight is distributed along the length of the long members. I put about 150 pounds of force on the center of one of them today when it was supported on each end by a sawhorse. It was fine.

I wouldn't want casters in the center because if the surface its sitting on isn't perfectly flat, it will rock. Nothing worse than stirring a kettle and have the stand rock while doing it.

If there is a flex issue, I'll put a stress rods diagonally on the back from the top of the legs to the center of the lower shelf and another from the top of the back center upright to the front lower shelf. That would strengthen everything while leaving the lower shelf mostly open for easy access.
 
True rocking would be a nightmare. Another alternative option would be legs. using long nuts and some bolts welded to the bottom you could adjust them up and leave then there unless you felt a need to lower them. Would also make for a backup leveling or stabilizing system if needed. Just throwing random thoughts at you. I seem to be a magnet for Murphys law where if it can go wrong it will lol!
 
I'll test the strength out by filling all the vessels when I get it built. Stay tuned.
 
Blow off valves are an option but you'd end up flooding the place or getting burnt wet feet every time you turn your Tap on to the manifold,

You can buy pressure reducing valves for hot water I've had to fit them on showers before but I don't know how low you can go, instead of silicone hoses could you use speed fit? As this wouldn't require reducing and the manifold should hold,

Where are you discharging the carbon monoxide?
 
Where are you discharging the carbon monoxide?
If my burners are adjusted properly, my stand shouldn't produce any carbon MONoxide.

I'll be running the stand in my garage, so the burners and heater will dump the carbon DIoxide into the garage. I'll mount a carbon monoxide detector on the stand and open a door and window to provide fresh air into the space and keep it safe.

The water heater burns a lot less gas than a burner does.
 
brewman ! said:
If my burners are adjusted properly, my stand shouldn't produce any carbon MONoxide.

I'll be running the stand in my garage, so the burners and heater will dump the carbon DIoxide into the garage. I'll mount a carbon monoxide detector on the stand and open a door and window to provide fresh air into the space and keep it safe.

The water heater burns a lot less gas than a burner does.

The burners don't seem a problem as we have gas hobs, it was more the heater as in the uk we have alot of safety regs on boilers/water heaters, but definitely get an alarm in the uk we have 2 types a patch of paper that changes colour which is useless as it gets older it changes anyway, or we have a digital one which sounds an alarm but aslong as its sites next to a window it shouldn't be a problem just watch out for headaches haha
 
It's refreshing to see a build where there is actually progress being made, on an almost daily basis. Good for you. If you start slacking I'll start taunting you ;) For reals, can't wait to see it finished.
 
It's refreshing to see a build where there is actually progress being made, on an almost daily basis. Good for you. If you start slacking I'll start taunting you ;) For reals, can't wait to see it finished.
Its taking up room in my garage and I need the space for other projects. I have no choice but to get it done !

I only have time to brew in winter. If I don't get this thing done before Christmas, I'm going to miss another brewing season.

Believe me, I have other projects that haven't had any progress on them for a while.

I'll be working on it on and off today and this weekend.
 
I'd consider giving you five whole dollars to build me one too. Unless of course you drive a hard bargain, I could up it to $10. Looking Great, man. :D
 
FYI, I've been informed that using one of the structural members of the stand as a conduit for natural gas (or propane) supply to the burners is highly illegal and frowned upon. I thought it might be, but I checked to make sure.

I am going to be piping natural gas to my burners as much in compliance with local codes as possible.

Even though the stand is being operated in a garage, its still considered an indoor natural gas appliance. With a little extra planning and work, it should be fully compliant.

I don't need it to be compliant as I won't be getting my stand inspected. But those regulations were created for a reason and I'm going to abide by them as much as possible.
 
ParamedicGuy said:
I'd consider giving you five whole dollars to build me one too. Unless of course you drive a hard bargain, I could up it to $10. Looking Great, man. :D

That's ridiculous.. Brewman, I'd like to double his offer.
 
I went shopping today to gas componentry to hook the burners up to the gas valves.

I was told its illegal to use a rubber hose on a indoor gas system. It has to be hard plumbed with a "non porous" line, meaning threaded pipe, an appliance hookup "line" or copper, and only a certified gas fitter is allowed to flare copper for nat gas use.

So... I went shopping for "appliance hookup line" can found this, for $24.

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Too bad its 1/2 x 1/2. But wait ! It uses some sort of coupler to make the connection. It turns out the ends on that hose are 3/8" flare. What size is the valve on my burners ? 3/8" flare !

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So then I set about laying out the route of the line, with the burners upside down, like it will be from the underneath.

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I'm not sure how I feel about the gas line being under the burner next to it. I want the burner valve at the front of the stand so that the flame can be easily adjusted.

I want the gas control valves at the back of the stand because I don't want gas lines running up in front cluttering up access to under the stand. If I can avoid having the gas line running down the front of the stand, when the brewing hoses are disconnected from the manifold, the entire front of the stand will be open.

I don't want the gas line to be much lower than it is in the picture because I need all the height I can get in order to store my brewing kettles, which are 18 inches high with the lids on upside down.

I need to sleep on this. Lots to think about here.

How hot is it UNDER a burner with a pot on top ?

I also found a 6 foot hose for my faucet. I'll explain that another time.

Tomorrow will be a big day for Zeus, if my wife isn't ill.
 
brewman ! said:
How hot is it UNDER a burner with a pot on top ?

Well, I'm not ashamed to admit that I run a KAB4 bayou burner on top of a Formica bench, and it gets just hot to the touch after the burners been running for 2 hours. You could probably fabricate some kind of a heat shield.
 
How much space is there between the Formica top and the underside of the burner ?

Warm to the touch would be fine.

I guess if your counter top is fine, my gas lines should be fine too as they will have more air flow around them than your counter top did.
 
brewman ! said:
How much space is there between the Formica top and the underside of the burner ?

Warm to the touch would be fine.

I guess if your counter top is fine, my gas lines should be fine too as they will have more air flow around them than your counter top did.

8" max between the counter a roaring banjo burner element.
 

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