From kits to recipes...

I apologize if this belongs in the beginner's forum, but since it's directly related to extract brewing (even if it's beginner questions ), I thought I should post it in here.

I started brewing this summer with basic extract kits -- the 1.9kg liquid extracts from Coopers and the like that come with a yeast packet. Add water and sugar, and done. That kind of stuff. The first was a stout, which is just about gone now. The second was a blonde beer, which has spent a week conditioning in bottles. I opened one last night, and the flavours are weak.

Up until now, I've just been using the can of extract, water and dextrose (boiled together for an hour) and then the yeast. I want to move on to extract-based recipes so I can hopefully start making better homebrews.

I've been thinking of starting by taking a kit (my next is a Canadian red ale) and adjusting it with malt extract syrup (for the red, I'm looking at amber malt extract syrup) and trying to increase the taste and bitterness with hop pellets. Basically, I want a maltier and hoppier taste.

Does it make sense to do this as a step between the kits and extract recipes? If so, what's the general rule of thumb for how much of the syrup I should add to the boil?

Chris

www.howtobrew.com

Read the section on Extract brewing with steeping grains. IMHO you will get a better beer than trying to jazz up can kits with more malt and hops.

brewt00l said:

www.howtobrew.com

Read the section on Extract brewing with steeping grains. IMHO you will get a better beer than trying to jazz up can kits with more malt and hops.

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I've read through much of it, but I'm a bit concerned about steeping grains at this point. Many of the recipes call for certain malts, and I'm somewhat confused as to what I'll need to do to prepare them -- or whether I'll need extra equipment like a grain mill.

If it's something simple, then no problem, but I really don't feel I'm ready to get into partial mash processes yet.

Chris

ctalbot said:

I've read through much of it, but I'm a bit concerned about steeping grains at this point. Many of the recipes call for certain malts, and I'm somewhat confused as to what I'll need to do to prepare them -- or whether I'll need extra equipment like a grain mill.

If it's something simple, then no problem, but I really don't feel I'm ready to get into partial mash processes yet.

Chris

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Sounds like you need to read that part again... Get them crushed or crush them yourself with a rolling pin or bottle....steep, remove, brew. The grains can impart more flavor and color than you can achieve with straight extracts.


http://www.howtobrew.com/section2/chapter13.html


Partial Mash is a different beast.

+1 for Extract w/steep kit. Just order one online or pick one up at your LHBS. I've brewed a few of Midwest's extract kits and they turned out great. Steeping is very simple; it's like making a gigantic pot of tea. The only thing you have to ensure is a steady temperature range.

It's very easy and you'll be surprised at how much your beer will improve over the can kits.



p.s. Most kits (at least at Midwest) come with decent instructions on how to do everything.

ctalbot said:

I've read through much of it, but I'm a bit concerned about steeping grains at this point. Many of the recipes call for certain malts, and I'm somewhat confused as to what I'll need to do to prepare them -- or whether I'll need extra equipment like a grain mill.

If it's something simple, then no problem, but I really don't feel I'm ready to get into partial mash processes yet.

Chris

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It took me a lot of reading and re-reading to understand the differences here, but steeping is really very easy. As the guys say, partial mash is a further step up, and involves essentially mashing but without the full all-grain equipment (which limits the amount of grain you can mash - as far as I can make out).

I did my first extract kit with steeping grains on the weekend. Apart from adding 30-40 mins to your brew time, it's very easy. I used an Austin Homebrew Supply kit, and the grains come milled and good to go in a muslin bag. No special equipment required (not even a rolling pin). Other kits might need you to bash the grains a bit so check the kit instructions!

brewt00l said:

Sounds like you need to read that part again...

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No argument there.

Alright, so this sounds like it should be fairly easy and should improve my extract-based homebrews tenfold over the kits I have been using. Unfortunately, I haven't seen any grain/extract kits around, so I guess I'll be choosing ingredients on my own and going from there (more reading required).

I have this red ale extract kit sitting there that I guess I'll just do as is, but I'll get my hands on some grains, malt extract syrups and hops so I can move on to the type of brewing everyone is suggesting here.

Thanks a lot for the advice.

Now back to reading...

Chris

Check out the kits at Austin Homebrew Supply. They have all kinds of clones to choose from plus basic styles. Their kits are very user friendly!

When steeping make sure you keep your temperatures in the correct range. Usually 150-155F. Too high and it could really turn out bitter tasting and it isn't a good bitter.

As an alternative if you do decide to make some more cooper kits in the future dont boil them. The boiling will kill some of the hop flvors making it taste taste weaker.

The second thing you may want to try is to use malt extract intead of cornsugar. Using all sugar makes it the body right thin and can lead to weak cidery tastes. I make alot of cooper kits so if you make one again message me and i'll give you some tips to make that particular style tastier.

Whatever you decide - enjoy

Cheers

It sounds like you've gotten some pretty good answers already, but I thought I'd add my 2 cents.

When I bought my brewing kit the LHBS owner "built" my first recipe on the spot. It had some specialty grains for steeping and used liquid malt extract. He also provided some good directions to follow. If you can do the packaged kits, you can steep grains. I'd suggest ordering a kit from one of the big online shops like austinhomebrew.com. Their kits come with specialty grains, extract, hops and yeast. Just follow the instructions.

Steeping is pretty simple. Have the grains crushed when you buy them. You can put them in a muslim grain bag which acts just like a big tea bag. Then just soak them in hot water for about 30 minutes. I try to keep the water at about 150, but the temp is not critical as long it doesn't get above 170. Remove the grains, add some more water, bring it to a boil, and add your extract and hops (per the recipe schedule). That's all there really is to it.

You know, as a n00b too, the whole range of AG to extract, full boil vs. partial boil, and other twists in the plot could be rendered in one handy chart or diagram to be thrown in the wiki for newcomers. I am actually surprised I did not see anything within the john Palmer site pages... or I missed it.

I am good a diagrams (I do tech. illustrations) and would volunter one such doc, once I would understand the different nuances better...!!

for the time being, I could draft something and put it up somewhere for folks to correct and annotate...?

ctalbot said:

No argument there.

Alright, so this sounds like it should be fairly easy and should improve my extract-based homebrews tenfold over the kits I have been using. Unfortunately, I haven't seen any grain/extract kits around, so I guess I'll be choosing ingredients on my own and going from there (more reading required).

...

Chris

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You don't need to go it alone just yet...

Austin Homebrew have plenty of speciality grain + extract kits. I've got two (Holiday Ale and Extra Special Bitter) from those guys - both Gold Seal and intended for beginners - basically, everything you need is in the box.

When you look at their clone kits etc. bear in mind you need to take the yeast option (or source the yeast elsewhere) and choose "Extract" as the option - not mini-mash, which is (I believe) the same as partial mash. Even the extract kits might have some steeping grains.

But if you want to strike out from the kits, then talk to your LHBS - they can probably put something together for you - but you'll need to have a specific kind of beer in mind. That's what I'm going to do - after these two I am done with kits, although I'm still a little wary of the costs - it looks like it's going to be hard to beat the price of these AHS kits (assuming an extract brew) unless I buy big bulk.

As the others said, going straight to a "recipe" really isn't difficult at all, especially since so many supply stores have their own catalog of recipes.

Steeping is a cinch, too. I get my water up to about 160, turn down the fire down very low, add the steeping bag, start the 30 minute clock, and cut the fire off when the water gets back to 160. If it's cold enough, I'll check the temperature every 10-15 minutes. If it's hot out, I don't even bother. When the 30 minutes are up, I remove the bag with a large strainer, let it drain a bit, put the bag into a one gallon bucket, "sparge" a bit with some distilled water, let it drain as I bring the kettle temperature back up to a boil, and then add that liquor to the kettle.


TL

For what it is worth this is the first non kit recipe I did. It is extract with steaping grains. Not my recipe mind you but I liked the result, I only used two vanilla beans not four as the original had and I cut them long ways and scraped out the insides to use (throw away the husk).

I'm still confused on a lot of things, but all of your answers have actually helped me understand better how to read the recipes I see here and elsewhere.

Chris

Best bet is to go to Midwest Supply or Austin Homebrew Supply. Get one of their extract kits that come with grains (about 1-2lbs) and make sure that they are cracked for you. The kit will come with everything you need including instructions. I've used the Midwest kits before and they are great. As for AHS< I have heard nothing but good things.

I live in Canada. Does anyone know if Austin ships outside the U.S.?

Chris

ctalbot said:

I live in Canada. Does anyone know if Austin ships outside the U.S.?

Chris

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Ask them...I dunno.

If you deal with a LHBS, tell them you want to brew an extract with steeping grains recipe and ask them to throw something together w/ instructions for you.

lpdean said:

Check out the kits at Austin Homebrew Supply. They have all kinds of clones to choose from plus basic styles. Their kits are very user friendly!

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i concur. AHS extract w steeping grain kits are easy. the first batch i ever did was their FatTireClone--turned out delicious (ive been to NB btw--sick brewery:rockin: ). this past sun and mon i did 2nd and 3rd batch (AHS DBL IPA and their 1554Clone). all 3 of my first brews have been extract w grain and i expect the next two to turn out as awesome as the first. i chill 4gal of spring water in fridge, then i add 2gal to fermenter, poor in wort, and then top off w other 2gal until i hit 5.5gal i get within 72-68F in no time.

AND btw AHS does ship to canada