Online vs. Local supply

Hey guys, new to this forum - just thought I'd put it out there. I brewed my first beer last week and just waiting for my two cases of conditioning beer to "ripen".

So far, I've been visiting my local "wine & hop shop" here in Madison, WI (also where I got my starter kit). Is it more economical to order online than local? If you guys order online, why do you do it and who do you prefer? Anybody who wants to, chime in!

I tried many of the main online stores and compared them with my LHBS Home Brewing Home Beer Brewing Home Wine Making Beer Kegging Equipment Breweriana Beer Tap Handles Liqueur Making Making Soda Adventures in Home Brewing

With shipping involved my LHBS has always been cheaper.

I think it really depends on what and where. My LHBS is WAY overpriced and equipment, but ingredients they are much better than online once you factor in shipping etc. Some folks don't have the option of a LHBS, and not all LHBS have large variety. I use a healthy combination of both.

As long as your local Homebrew Supply has fresh ingredients, provides good advice, and is friendly, by all means do business locally. Many times, it's worth paying a little bit more for convenience and customer service.

If they don't have those necessary traits (IMHO) then any of the big online stores are the way to go. Here are some in alphabetical order.

Austin Homebrew Supply
Home wine making supply and home brew supply available on-line at Midwest Homebrewing Supplies. Search for wine recipes and beer recipes
Beer Making and Home Brewing Supplies | MoreBeer
NORTHERN BREWER
William's Brewing, Home Brewing Supplies, Winemaking Supplies, and Home Coffee Roasting. @ Williams Brewing

I'm a huge advocate of support your community and buy local whenever you can. Some things will be cheaper online if you dig around but if you are fortunate to have a local homebrew shop (allot aren't) use it.

My LHBS's prices are just about the same as Austin Homebrew Supply (my go-to place). I patronize both shops because there are always a few items that the LHBS doesn't stock.

I use my LHBS for all of my ingredients as their grain is fresh and the hop prices are ridiculously low (hmmm, i wonder why :cross. However, I have put in a couple orders online through morebeer.com and AHS. For equipment it just seems that the online stores are cheaper...not sure why. When the prices are close, I like to support my local store, but if not I don't hesitate to order online. If a store owner doesn't care to price their stuff reasonably and in line with other vendors, I don't shop there...no matter if they are local or not.

Thanks for all your input so far, I'll check out those online shops. If anybody else wants to weigh in, I would love to hear more - like who has good deals on what? What items can't you get at your LHBS?

I have been gravitating towards buying almost everything online from tea to clothing and etc, and haven't looked back. What's cost effective to buy online vs. @ your LHBS?

It really depends on your shop or shops like everyone else says...I'm lucky Michigan is jammed packed with some awesome LHBS's big and small, so I don't order online. I can find just about everything I need at a decent price. Plus it's nice to have a relationship with the owners and staff of shops, rather than faceless and online...

For example, a lot of retailers both online and brick and mortar have restrictions on the amount of hops you can get right now with the shortage...I freely admit, that at two shops, those restrictions don't NECESSARILY apply all the time to all the customers. If they know you, on occasion those rules may be bent. The 6 ounces of hops I needed for an IPA recently when the rule are 3/5 gallon batches, can attest to the benefit of having a face to face relationship.

There's something to be said for having some people with more experience tasting your beers and critiquing them, especially if you think you have a problem.

It's really fun to hang out at an LHBS. I've walked in on numerous occasions and got to try some awesome beers out of their fridge...

If you have a brick and mortar shop a reasonable distance from you, and they aren't a$$hats (some are, or they don't know crap about brewing) then I think it's a good idea to support them....even if you gotta pay a wee bit more (I'm not talking overpriced/being gouged,but maybe not the best price) then I would encourage you to support them...Like any independant/small businesses it's a good idea to support them...otherwise the walmarts of this world win...

Soviet said:

What's cost effective to buy online vs. @ your LHBS?

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If cost is your only motivator - online will usually win every time you compare prices. the local option is just that - the LOCAL option. This person wants to help you brew better-- make a friend, get some freebies now and then - see if he/she sponsors a brewclub -- use the LHBS as a networking tool.

Keep that money local if you can.

That said, I split my orders 70% local, 30% online - simply because I can't always find what I need at the LHBS that sponsors the brewclub. The 10% discount covers sales tax nicely.

I am lucky in that fact I have many choices around me.

Revvy said:

IIf they know you, on occasion those rules may be bent.

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I luck out once in awhile and have products offered to me for testing.
Wyeast's Kolsch II VSS Yeast being an example. If the LHBS has some older yeasties available, he'll toss them at me to revive...at a deep discount.
He'll also order for me and sell at a great price. No gouging no heavy markups.

Now I just need to get my yeast harvesting skills improved -- so I can start stocking up some of the niftier varieties out there. thinking Pacman will be my next project.

i by all local, cuz i'm cool like that. and because oak barrel rocks and i've been shopping there a LONNNGG time and get lots of benefits and no everyone in the store really well.

there are more reasons, but i think i'll just repeat that i'm just cool like that. damn, i need a drink. need to get outta work.

as it stands for me as a complete NEWBIE, I have been fortunate enough to find an AWESOME lhbs, with an owner that NEVER puts me off when I call him with a question about a problem or anything else. Granted a LHBS is usually more expensive than ordering online, yet by the time you figure in shipping costs and the time factors in redieving the product desired, well then tha's up to you and how badly you NEED or want it.

As for me PERSONALLY, I happen to be one of those that is the "when I want it, I want it NOW" kind of people.
At those times I don't even take into account of waht I may save.

By the same token, I DO prefer to support and go with my "local" sources rather than waitng on the shipping compnies and then only to find out my order was messed up and have to deal with LD telephone tag to get it resolved.

All that being said is why I prefer to buy from my lhbs.

HTH and all my best,
Cheers
Mongo

Mongo said:

As for me PERSONALLY, I happen to be one of those that is the "when I want it, I want it NOW" kind of people.

Mongo

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Oh yeah there's that too, no waiting for something to be shipped. And I even have a beer store that has an aisle fo supplies, so if the other shops are closed, like 9 oclock on a Sunday night, and I need to bottle I can get more caps if needed,can't do that shopping online.

I usually shop local. I can decide to brew on sat. run 10 minutes to the LBHS and be back and brew the same day. That beats having to order and wait a few days for the stuff to arrive, then not having time to brew right away and your ingredients just sitting around. Price wise they are probably a wee bit more. But it's the convenience and advice that keeps me coming back.

Plus you are supporting a local business which in my book is always a plus.

I always prefer to shop local. But living in the SW suburbs of Chicago I don't really have a choice. The closest LHBS is in southern Chicago. Round trip its 35 miles which is $4+ even with todays low gas prices. Add in ~10% sales tax and the price of any purchase really hurts. Oh and lets not forget that that closest LHBS is not stocked very well and it really sucks.

If I buy from AHS or Northern the lack of sales tax plus fix shipping cost easily make online ordering the better choice for me.

Though I have to say there is nothing quite like doing shopping in an actual brick and mortar HBS. I've been waiting for well over a month for an excuse to head over to my favorite HBS in Aurora. Their prices aren't as good as many online stores but I like to buy local.

I can attest to the desire to support the local yocal that is giving it a go. However my LHBS ingredients leave something to be desired. My first three kits had a really bad extract twang and were WAY too sweet. I assumed those were caused by my errors and being a noob. At the encouraging of a friend that orders online I tried Midwest Supplies and the first two batches have been great. No twang. No too sweet.

And when I was initially getting started in brewing they kept telling me that there was no need for a hydrometer. A HYDROMETER!!! I just found that plain stoooopid!

In conclusion, support the LHBS if they are fairly priced and friendly. But there really isn't anything wrong with ordering online. WERD.

I guess i feel lucky being so close to More Beer. I've had a few choices of LHBS over the years, some now gone, some that seem to be dieing. I have always supported those stores in the past and have only ever ordered online once (Northern Brewery)

I saw this thread, so I went to my Lhbs's web site and ordered up some things that I have been wanting to buy. Then compared it to a similiar order from midwest.

6# dextrose Lhbs $12 MW $12
3 packs montrachet Lhbs $5.85 MW $1.80
5gallon Better bottle Lhbs $24.95 MW $19.95
Bottle tree Lhbs $35 MW $16.95
Vinator rinser Lhbs $19.95 MW $14.95
Star san 32oz Lhbs $20 MW $12.50


Totals

Lhbs $113.15
Midwest $78.15+22.64 shipping=$99.79


So, in conclusion. My Lhbs is more expensive, but after shipping the price is nominal. For $14 less I would have to wait a week for the shipment, and not talk to a person. Plus if the order had a problem (not saying there would be one from Midwest, I have never used them). I would have to wait another week for shipping, unlike a 20 minute drive to the Lhbs.

Its all in the wash for me. my time is worth a bit more than the $14 I would save. Plus having to wait for shipping and possible damages from the package handlers.

I *used* to always buy local, there are two stores within ~20 minutes of me, though I've begun doing the bulk of my buying online after recent experiences at them. The local places are more expensive, but the convenience was worth the cost...until the people at both places failed on customer service.

Asking getting ignored, being given wrong information, or an "I don't know" and a shrug to a simple question is a good way to loose customers.

The only thing I buy local now is liquid yeast when it is a necessity for the style/recipe.

I've probably bought 90% of equipment and ingredients locally - I like the guys in the two nearby home brew shops and I welcome their advice and encouragement. For me, with no grain mill yet and a schedule that's always "subject to alteration" I like the LHBS as I can just run out and get what I need to brew that minute (I'm usually using dry yeast at the moment).

There are some price savings but I think that kicks in a lot more once you are buying in bulk, but I am sceptical if I'll ever be brewing enough to really make bulk buying the best option. I'm probably destined for 1-2 5G batches a month max. A couple of times the LHBS has not had what I wanted, but I've improvised a dashed over to the other one.

My LHBS is WAAAAAY overpriced compared to the online places. As an example, I had my wife swing by and pick me up some StarSan since she drives by it on the way home and I needed some fast. It cost me $12 for an 8oz bottle and I can get the same size online for $7. It is that way on all their stuff. To top it off, they are always short and snobby with customers who actually already know how to brew. The newbies that come in they are very nice and try to sell them the store.

While I agree that supporting the local guys is the best practice - sometimes it just doesn't make sense.

I prefer to support local business here in Columbus, OH. Even though the only decent shop is 20-30 minutes away from the 'burbs where I live. I like being able to see, feel and smell the ingredients and equipment before I buy anyway.

Stick mostly with the wine and hop shop (that's my HBS). Those guys are great, and if you take the time to get to know them, they will hook you up. I get all of my yeast and almost all my grain and hops from them (I also belong to the Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild - DEFINITELY check them out at mhtg.org). But equipment is just cheaper online (even with shipping), and more readily available. Plus, if you're still into kit brewing, W&HS kits are pretty good - it's what I started on. The Badger Dark and the Scotch Ale were two of my favorites. Feel free to PM me if you've got other local questions.

I buy bulk and keep an inventory on hand. Even with shipping, it's cheaper for me to buy online than go to my LHBS (which is 40 minutes away).

Jacksonbrown hit it, Madison's LHBS is a decent one. Also, local connections are always awesome.

I personally buy most of my stuff online these days, but I buy weird quantities of unmilled specialty grains. For base malt, I often go to LHBS because, with shipping, there's no cost benefit to buying online. Yeast, I almost always get online, because I usually use dry for everything, and buy 10+ packs at a time.

I try to buy local whenever possible but mostly order my supplies.

Of course, Local is 80 miles away when we make it to the big city.

"Pappy! They's got concrete PONDS!"

The only reason not to shop local, as I see it, is because it's incredibly far away or the service is bad. Niagara Tradition in Buffalo is not only close, but the owners are some of the founding members of my LHBC. Our club meeting is at the tasting there this Friday, etc... it's a cool place to go to.

That's not saying they're always better. I had seen refractometers for $25 on ebay, but SWMBO got me one from them for my birthday and paid $90. It's the thought that counted there

I love my LHBS but it is about an hour or more away. I recently asked my wife about goign down there to get a kit, and she asked why don't I order from the Northern Brewer site (I'm always looking at their catalog). Makes sense because when you factor in the gas cost, it probably ends up being cheaper to order online.

But, my store (Siciliano's Market) has pretty much EVERYTHING and more, and it's so much fun to browse and chat, and they are always very eager to please and seem very knowledgeable. I still like going there, even though I bet my cost is less to order online.

Now if only the kid at the party store nearby would convince his dad to get back into homebrewing like they used to...

Naw, still would not even be close to the selection and knowledge that Siciliano's has.

I like to try and support local businesses whenever possible. Obviously, after accounting for quality of service - I'm not going to support any store that I feel treats me, the customer, poorly. That said, I can't ignore the economics of it. If something is orders of magnitude cheaper online, I'll get it there (I can't really afford not to). If the item is only a smidge more expensive locally, I'll probably buy it locally.

When I was brewing 10 years ago I bought all ingredients locally in PA. Now that i'm in SC the nearest LHBS is 1 1/2 hours away.

I've found a shop in NC (1 1/2 to 2 hours away other direction) that can ship to my office in 24hrs via ups commercial (big savings business to business shipping) for a lot less then I'd spend in gas to get there.

That being said I do miss some of the advice and suggestions i got buying locally, AND I REALLY MISS THE TASTING EVENTS we used to have after store hours. If a LHBS were to open in my town I'd probably buy most things there, even if it cost a few $ more.

Here in the Denver Metro area my LHBS are pretty great. They carry most of what I need with the exception of the Barley Crusher I just ordered from Brewmasters warehouse. What I like about some of the LHBS's in my area is that I can get a #50 of 2 row for about $45. However, I think the better deal for me on Hops would be to order online as the # price is very reasonalbe even with shipping.

I have only used LHBS because it is close to my house and I can have the ingredients that day. Also, the people are nice and they will go around the store and fill up all the ingredients for you. It's also not bad that they have a selection of some homebrews on tap all the time

I believe in sharing the wealth! I've found that my local shops have varying degrees of variety and price. None can compete with having all the options made available by the internet: which is understandable, since they're going to have to keep inventory for a very small market. If I'm looking for a hard to find item, or just want to save money, then I'll buy from one of the big online places. If I want something fast an immediate, I'll buy from my LHBS.

while my LHBS has some stuff lots of fresh grains and hops

the best part is he has 4 diff brews on tap for $3.00 a pint

service is slow(one man operation)

and a bit dusty

I always enjoy tipping a few pints while he gets my order together

The only issue I had the shop in my area (new business about 1 year ago) was the owner only provided yes and no answers and no solid advice for a first time brewer (that was 2 months ago). To me the only way a business like this will survive is to get new customers interested in their hobby of brewing beer. A good start would be to actually act interested and have some enthusiasm. I have since ordered from Midwest to get up and running.

I used to buy locally, but when gas crossed the $4 mark I decided to try the online stores. I haven't been back to the LHBS. Once I changed my habits and started ordering 2-3 brews at a time I found it was much easier to order online. I don't know if my shop is over priced or what, but I save about 35% by ordering online. I brew about 25 batches a year so it really adds up. If you are thinking about ordering stuff online you need to do your homework. All the sites have a different price and shipping structure and different products. I order from MoreBeer and Austin mostly and couldn't be happier.