Mango question(s)

I just started my first experiment with fruit. I'm doing a BB Weizenbier kit and wanted to infuse it with Mango. I know everybody says to rack onto fruit in secondary, which I still might do...but for starters:

I threw in 2 pounds of frozen mango chunks at flameout, and kept in the primary fermenter. I took this advice from Papazian's book, although most people have said do NOT keep fruit in primary. The airlock activity from my Ale Pail was out of control after 24 hours! I could feel the air coming out of the little holes like an air hockey table and it smelled of delicious mango.

Questions:

1. Why are so many people against fruit in primary? Just because the fruit may ferment out and lose flavor? Or is there more to it...
2. Should I open up fermenter and remove mango pieces (in 4 days now)
3. Should I rack onto MORE mango in secondary?



Thank yinz in advance

1) From what I have read/researched, people will put fruit into primary or secondary for different reasons. As a general rule of thumb fruit will go into primary if you want to add color and perhaps some very subtle flavor to your beers. Fruit will be added into secondary if a much more pronounced flavor and aroma are desire.

In my own experience, I have brewed twice with fruit and both timed I put into primary and neither time was the flavor or aroma particularly pronounced. The color, on the other hand, was brilliant!

2) My advice to you would be to allow you beer to finish it's fermentation (5-7 days) and then take a gravity reading. If you have reached your target gravity then rack into secondary leaving your fruit and sediment behind.

3) At the time when you take a gravity reading to determine if your beer is ready to move to secondary taste the sample you pulled. You will then be able to determine whether or not the mango is as pronounced as you would desire. If it is not as pronounced then you can put some mango into secondary and rack the beer onto it. Most of your fermenting has been done at this point and the alcohol will aid in extracting the flavors.

I hope this helps, mate! Good luck!

I usually use a 3 step process when using fruit. Ferment base beer in primary, rack onto fruit in secondary where you will actually get a secondary fermentation from the fruit, then into a tertiary and cold crash to get all your fruit goo to drop out. That's just me though, everyone does it a little different.

The reason that most people wait to add fruit until primary fermentation is up is the same reason that you want to dry hop after primary as well. During primary fermentation when the yeast are eating the wort sugars and cranking out CO2 you get a lot of aromatics being carried out of solution thanks to the CO2 off-gassing. By adding fruit and or hops while primary fermentation is still largely occurring, you are wasting your efforts if your end goal is a large amount of hop and/or fruit aroma.

If you wait until a large portion of primary fermentation is completed and then add your fruit, you will be able to preserve a lot more of those flavor and aromatic compounds in your finished beer. Like mentioned above, I would wait until your primary fermentation is completed then taste a sample. If you beer has the flavor and color you want after primary fermentation, go with what you have.

If its lacking on the aroma, you can add some more fruit in the secondary but you are going to increase the flavor and color in the beer the longer it is on the fruit. If you choose to add some more fresh fruit in the secondary just taste test it often and be ready to rack the beer off the fruit once you feel its got the right balance of flavor and aroma.

As much as I like the idea and concept of using fresh fruit in many of my beers, I have honestly been a complete convert to using extracts for all my fruit flavors. This way I can brew a perfect base beer and then using my extract can try a bunch of different levels in 12 ounce pours to find the right balance of flavor and aroma.

Good luck with the beer, a mango wheat beer sounds like an awesomely refreshing recipe!

Matt

Thank you Rip, Spin and Natty! All very good advice. I know to just RDWHABH in the meantime. The primary fermentation will be done in the next couple days. I will take a gravity reading and do a taste test, then determine how much mango to put in my secondary.

I've read about people using 8# of Mango, and they only get a little hint of flavor from it. But I'm looking for a strong mango flavor. I bought 4 fresh ripe mangoes, which I will turn into puree with vodka in my food processor, then stick in the freezer to kill the germs.

I will let it sit in the secondary for 7-10 days and bottle after bubbling slows to a crawl. Then bottle and (hopefully) wait 10 days before cracking my first bottle. I will certainly let you all know how it came out. Thanks for the advice, if anybody has any other tips/tricks or advice for mango, let me hear it!

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B

Did you happen to use Citra hops?? Citra gives off a very pronounced Mango flavor, would have been the perfect hop for this brew!

No Citra - I used low alpha Mt Hood (bittering and aroma)

The IBUs of this kit are between 6-10 which is very low, but people say the mango flavor (and many other fruits) will clash with a higher IBU level.

In another fermenter, I have an IPA going with Columbus Hops (14% alpha) for bittering - so I'm guessing my IPA will satisfy my hop cravings and the mango will be good for the lighter brew.

Just an update with the mango weizen:

I racked onto 3 fresh mangoes (pureed with vodka in food processor) in secondary after 5 days in fermenter. It was mostly smooth sailing, although the siphon got stuck a few times with mango pieces. The airlock started bubbling almost immediately in the secondary, and some of the mango floated to the top. I will be bottling in about 10 days, and let you know the results after 1 week in the bottle.

My two cents - leave it longer than that. The primary might have been a bit longer, too.

B

You may be right on the secondary B

The primary could have been a couple days longer, but I opened the lid and some of the mango were starting to look a little funky. It may have been only krausen, but it looked like some of the mangoes were rotting a little. I also checked the SG, and was at a solid 1.013 so that's close enough to my FG where I thought it was cool for the secondary to begin.

The secondary should be longer than 10 days you think?

I'm pretty sure the vodka and fermented alcohol will keep the mangoes from infection...but I'm guessing 2# of mango in the primary and appx 3# pureed mango in the secondary will absorb the flavor quickly. I know I know...patience is all I need here.

Here are some pics after 4 hours in the secondary

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Here's an update of the Mango Wheat after 8 days in the secondary. First the pics:



For this pic I (gently) twisted the carboy top to agitate the mango slush on the bottom, without splashing around on the surface




I took a sample for a gravity reading, which came out to 1.012.

The sample smelled fine and tasted very light on the mango, but still good.

QUESTION: I smelled inside the carboy (a very deep inhale through my nose) and it was slightly vinegar-y, almost like a white wine. Kinda burned my nostrils in a very faint way. I don't think it's an infection because I was good with sanitation, and it looks/tastes fine.

But is that white wine smell because I fermented some mango pieces in the primary first? Let me know if anybody else has this experience with fruit in secondary. Thanks all

Bottled after 13 days in the secondary - I could have waited a bit longer I suppose.

Anyhoooze - the racking and bottling went pretty smoothly. The racking cane got stuck a couple times, but it unclogged quickly and bottled without any problems.

I tasted a few swigs from the final bottled specimen and the mango wheat "zygote" tasted GREAT. It seemed like it would be a great beer after 2 weeks of bottle conditioning. I will give you a taste update from the bottle in a couple weeks.

secondary option should be fruit flavor

Opened a bottle of the mango wheat last night (after about 5 days conditioning) just to check things out.

It obviously needs more time, but it wasn't bad at this point. The beer is still green, and the mango profile is very low and somewhat sour...but this is about what I expected by now. I'm guessing it will mellow next week, but it probably won't be good for another 2-3 weeks.

How did you use the mango? Me and a buddy made 2 purees with 4 large mangos added 1 puree at end of boil and 1 puree to secondary it came out good slightly hazey and not as much mango flavour as we wanted. It was a heffe

I added 2# of frozen mango chunks (Dole brand) at flame out. Those mango chunks sat in the primary bucket for 5 days, then I racked to a secondary.

For the secondary: 3 large (very ripe, and very sweet) mangoes were pureed with about 1 cup of Vodka and added to the bottom of the carboy. Then I racked the beer over the puree and let it sit for 12 days before bottling. I would occasionally swirl the carboy (gently, never violently!) to kick up the mango slurry all around the beer.

All said and done, I used about 5-6# of Mango for 5 gallons of the BB Weizen. I'll try another bottle in a few days and hope the flavor starts to come through.

So, what's the final verdict? This sounds like something my wife would enjoy...

INFECTION!!! Had to dump the batch as the bottles were super gushers and it tasted very sour/acidic. After bottling, the longer I waited, the worse it became. I know what went wrong and the mistakes I made:

1. Don't add fruit to the primary before fermentation starts - it just scrubbed away all the aroma and flavor. I will now ALWAYS wait until beer gets close to the FG before adding any kind of flavor, fruit, dry hop, etc...

2. Do NOT rush to rack over to secondary - again, I will now always wait until I'm sure the bulk of fermentation is over before racking.

3. Unless you're using a puree, liquid or syrup - keep the fruit tied in a muslin bag or something to take it out easily before racking.

After this mango fiasco - I did a watermelon ale that came out very good because I didn't repeat the mistakes of the past. My biggest takeaway is to make sure everything is done before flavoring, or you're going to lose the flavor. And then just do everything as you normally would with patience and sanitation!!!