The Minstrel - A crazy, funky 100% brett fermented beer

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saq

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Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
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Location
Tucson
Recipe: The Minstrel
Brewer: saq
Asst Brewer:
Style: Saison
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.30 gal
Boil Size: 7.34 gal
Estimated OG: 1.090 SG
Estimated Color: 14.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 39.4 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
0.50 lb Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 2.76 %
9.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 49.67 %
3.00 lb Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 16.56 %
3.00 lb Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 16.56 %
0.50 lb Special B Malt BYOB (140.0 SRM) Grain 2.76 %
0.12 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 0.66 %
0.75 oz Chinook BYOB Plug [14.30 %] (90 min) Hops 35.4 IBU
0.25 oz Chinook BYOB Plug [14.30 %] (10 min) Hops 4.0 IBU
0.50 gm Paradise Seeds (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1.00 items Servomyces (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
11.00 gm Dried Elderflowers (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
2.00 lb Desert Flower Honey (1.0 SRM) Sugar 11.04 %
1 Pkgs Brettanomyces claussenii (White Labs #WLP6Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Double Infusion, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 16.12 lb
----------------------------
Double Infusion, Light Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
40 min Protein Rest Add 9.67 qt of water at 137.2 F 122.0 F
30 min Saccrification Add 11.28 qt of water at 179.2 F 149.0 F
10 min Mash Out Add 11.28 qt of water at 208.2 F 168.0 F


So after hearing about a few crazy brews that sounded/were really awesome (olllllo's GABF pro-am beer, Avery Fifteen, Lost Abbey Carnevale) I decided I needed to step it up and do something crazy and boundry stretching. It started out as kind of a Saison with Chinook (to take a page from Carnevale) and some Grains of Paradise, then I remembered some really tasty Blackberry Pale Ale I had at the local homebrew club recently so in goes some honey. olllllo's GABF pro-am had dried elderberry and grains of paradise and Avery Fifteen had white pepper and hibiscus, but I can't get either of those so I went with elderflowers/grains of paradise.

Been kicking this idea around for a while, and I think I've finally settled the grain bill down to this. I'd like to do blackberry honey but I'm not sure I can get some by saturday, plus Desert Flower Honey sounds pretty interesting and I'd be supporting local business.

Also I've thought about putting dates in but I'm not sure if using some ripened dates is a good idea or how to use them. Comments? Suggestions?


Edit: Update recipe and fermentation notes! Beer is completed and drinking very well!

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.30 gal
Boil Size: 7.34 gal
Estimated OG: 1.080 SG
Estimated Color: 18.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 20.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
9.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 53.73 %
6.00 lb Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 35.82 %
0.50 lb Special B Malt BYOB (140.0 SRM) Grain 2.99 %
0.25 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 1.49 %
1.00 oz Sterling [6.20 %] (90 min) Hops 20.0 IBU
1.00 items Servomyces (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
2.00 gm Paradise Seeds (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
18.00 gm Dried Elderflowers (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1.00 lb Date Sugar (3.0 SRM) Sugar 5.97 %
1 Pkgs Brettanomyces claussenii (WLP645) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 15.75 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 24.00 qt of water at 168.8 F 156.0 F
10 min Mash Out Add 8.00 qt of water at 209.6 F 168.0 F


Notes:
------
5/11/09 - 1.080 OG, higher than expected. The fruity elderberry flavor almost comes through the sweetness of the wort.
5/26/09 - 1.058 SG, brett seemed slow to respond, no visible activity until 4 days later.
5/30/09 - Raised fridge temp to 70f, brett seemed to wake up, small but thick looking foam at the top.
6/3/09 - After some significant airlock activity took a gravity reading, 1.034, not too shabby. Tastes fairly tart and flowery.
6/8/09 - Did another gravity reading, 1.020, seems to have cooled down with the fridge when lowering initial Pious v1 fermentation temp, time to add the dates.
6/10/09 - Fermentation has slowed in fridge with temp at 65f, took out of fridge to ferment at ambient 78-80f temperature. Beer woke up big time.
7/1/09 - The beer is definitely done, 1.006. Very clear, very tart, very flowery, very funky, good stuff. Kegged and chilling.
7/2/09 - Put 20PSI on and shook a few times, left on for carbonation.
7/5/09 - First taste test, carbonation level is almost there.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
After talking iwth some folks I think I might make the following changes.
Drop the 2lbs of honey, substitute with 1lbs or 2lbs of jaggery (date sugar).
Perhaps change out the chinook with an equal IBU amount of EKG/styrian goldings/czech premiant something.
Increase Grains of Paradise amount to 1 gram.
Thoughts?
 
Its still in the planning stage! I might brew it this saturday.
 
Here's the new plan.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.30 gal
Boil Size: 7.34 gal
Estimated OG: 1.090 SG
Estimated Color: 15.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 32.8 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
0.50 lb Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 2.76 %
9.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 49.67 %
3.00 lb Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 16.56 %
3.00 lb Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 16.56 %
0.50 lb Special B Malt BYOB (140.0 SRM) Grain 2.76 %
0.12 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 0.66 %
2.00 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] (90 min) Hops 32.8 IBU
1.00 gm Paradise Seeds (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1.00 items Servomyces (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
11.00 gm Dried Elderflowers (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
2.00 lb Jaggery (3.0 SRM) Sugar 11.04 %
1 Pkgs Brettanomyces claussenii (White Labs #WLP6Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Double Infusion, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 16.12 lb
----------------------------
Double Infusion, Light Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
40 min Protein Rest Add 9.67 qt of water at 137.2 F 122.0 F
30 min Saccrification Add 11.28 qt of water at 179.2 F 149.0 F
10 min Mash Out Add 11.28 qt of water at 208.2 F 168.0 F
 
Drool. :p

Curious why you chose malted wheat/rye instead of unmalted, the unmalted stuff is usually used for wild beers?

Looks great but I'd add a little Styrian Goldings at 5 min or so as a finishing addition.
 
I am also curious about the low mash temp, what was your reasoning there? I have always mashed high... but, then again, I have never done all brett so I am sure there is a reason behind that.
 
I actually did a bunch of research on the mash last night. I read something by Jeff Sparrow that said a single infusion mash @ 154-156 for 90 minutes ends up working great for all-brett beers. I think I'm going to switch it up to that.
 
I doubt mash temp would make much of a difference since the brett would chew through steel. :D

One of the other reasons I'm just going to go with a single infusion :)

I didn't think about the unmalted wheat. The recipe originally started out as a Saison (hence malted wheat) which lead into the Avery Fifteen Brett Saison idea. I don't think the LHBS has unmalted rye, but they do have wheat. You think I should change it up? I'll check Wild Brews when I get home to see what he has to say on that topic.
 
what kind of a taste does BRETT impart on a beer? I've only had 1 or 2 that were aged with brett, but it was before i was home brewing and never really put any thought into it. But being that my name is brett. I would like to make a Brett's Brett and try something like this out.. i wanna know what it will taste like though.. Sorry for the hi-jack
 
One of the other reasons I'm just going to go with a single infusion :)

I didn't think about the unmalted wheat. The recipe originally started out as a Saison (hence malted wheat) which lead into the Avery Fifteen Brett Saison idea. I don't think the LHBS has unmalted rye, but they do have wheat. You think I should change it up? I'll check Wild Brews when I get home to see what he has to say on that topic.

I'd go unmalted on the wheat, probably not on the rye since I have heard nightmare stories of stuck mashes with unmalted rye...
 
what kind of a taste does BRETT impart on a beer? I've only had 1 or 2 that were aged with brett, but it was before i was home brewing and never really put any thought into it. But being that my name is brett. I would like to make a Brett's Brett and try something like this out.. i wanna know what it will taste like though.. Sorry for the hi-jack

Sour and funky come to mind... thats the best way to describe it really.
 
I like the idea of what is going on here. I have been feeling the need to do something a bit unusual lately, but don't feel like I know enough right now to just start something completely on my own here.

What is the time scale on a Brett beer? I assume it has a longer aging time that usual?
 
I like the idea of what is going on here. I have been feeling the need to do something a bit unusual lately, but don't feel like I know enough right now to just start something completely on my own here.

What is the time scale on a Brett beer? I assume it has a longer aging time that usual?

Primary fermentation supposedly takes about the same length as with saccharomyces strains but the secondary fermentation can last six months or more until the fermentable dextrines are exhausted. Each time the fermentable sugars run out the brett produce more enzymes to break down longer dextrine chains... it's a slow process.
 
I think I'm gonna drop the malted wheat and go 6lbs of rye. A half pound of rice hulls + my blichmann false bottom should keep me from getting any kind of stuck mash :) Never had a problem yet! Off to the LHBS!
 
Here's my final brewsheet. I'm just about to mash in.

Recipe: The Minstrel
Brewer: saq
Asst Brewer:
Style: Saison
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.30 gal
Boil Size: 7.34 gal
Estimated OG: 1.080 SG
Estimated Color: 18.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 20.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
0.50 lb Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 2.90 %
9.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 52.17 %
6.00 lb Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 34.78 %
0.50 lb Special B Malt BYOB (140.0 SRM) Grain 2.90 %
0.25 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 1.45 %
1.00 oz Sterling [6.20 %] (90 min) Hops 20.0 IBU
1.00 items Servomyces (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
2.00 gm Paradise Seeds (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
18.00 gm Dried Elderflowers (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1.00 lb Jaggery Date Sugar (3.0 SRM) Sugar 5.80 %
1 Pkgs Brettanomyces claussenii (White Labs #WLP6Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 16.25 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 24.00 qt of water at 167.9 F 155.0 F
10 min Mash Out Add 8.50 qt of water at 210.6 F 168.0 F
 
Temp corrected preboil gravity reading @ 1.061, right on target. Just need to get my final volume in correctly.
 
I finished with 1.080, about 78% eff. Pitched yeast, now it begins.
 
Let us know how this one turns out... In a year.

Ever since I tried Avery fifteen, I have been reading up on wild beers, this one seems interesting.
 
Yeah it's WLP653, beersmith didn't have room to fit it on the text page.

With Brett as primary fermentation it isn't going to take a year to finish like if it was in with lacto/pedi, which is why Im doing this
 
That PDF is one of the things I read a while ago that got me inspired to do this.
I drank some of The Bruery's Saisons that supposedly have brett in them. Saison Rue and Saison Lente. Both were excellent Saisons but I didn't get much brett out of them. Perhaps its bottle conditioned? The Avery Fifteen has much more funky brett character, but it is still mild and restrained which is what I'm hoping for.
 
You think the brett character in Avery 15 is mild and restrained? Good lord man!

I think Avery 15 is right up there with the De Proef brett beers.
 
I would say Avery Fifteen is mild compared to real sours, its is no Rodenbach Grand Cru, La Folie, Duchesse De Bourgogne, etc. A lot of other beers with brett I've had (like orval) are so mild its practically about as funky as regular Belgian yeast.
 
Sourness-wise of course, it is not sour at all But funk wise? It is much much funkier than any Flanders Red I have ever had, including Rodenbach, La Folie, Duchesse etc, as funky as many lambics I have had (including those from Cantillon and Drie Fontenein), and as funky as the brett beers from De Proef, which are very funky beers.
 
lol.
I suppose the funk level of Avery Fifteen depends on what you are comparing it to. When was the last time you had it ChrisKennedy? I had one about 2 months ago and it was very nice!

If I really like this recipe I'll rebrew it with maybe a few tweaks and use a different brett strain.
 
Less than that, probably about a month ago. Haha, I am just wondering what you think it is mild and restrained compared to, that has got to be a funnnnnnnkkkkyyyyy beer!
 
Dumb-lucked across this thread as I was doing some research on Brett in Carnevale.

IMO - Avery 15 has tons of funk but not much sour. The reason being is that its 100% brett fermented, the ones you list (Rodenbach, La Folie, Duchesse) are fermented heavily with bugs (lacto/pedio/etc/etc/etc) and the bugs are what drive the majority of the acidity/sourness not Brett. You can get some pineapple and other citrus from certain Brett strains but a 100% Brett fermented beer MAY not be anything like a sour. Funky - hell yes but not necessarily sour.

Carnevale and Boulevard's Brett-Saison are both bottle conditioned with Brett so the funkiness isn't over the top. Additionally, I think its debatable how many "unfermentable" sugars Brett will really tear into - its often the accompanying bugs that do the dirty work of breaking down the polysaccarides/dextrines.

How's this one going? I've got a pale that I fermented with a blend of saison yeast (565/3726 and brett) that got a culture of RR Consecration added to it and its sitting in the secondary waiting for fall. The second batch I put in on top of this was a dark one and it ended up much more sour and much less funk than the first one.

From what I've heard, if you're going for sour - use the Roeselare blend from Wyeast does something similar. With each subsequent pitch it gets more and more sour to the point of undrinkability after about 4-5 pitches.
 
Little status update. Theres some thin krausen at the top and its bubbling away going slowly. Did an OG check today and I'm at 1.058. Tasting a little funky. Guess this one is going to go slow.

I hope this turns out well as making some traditional ales styles with funky brett seems like a fun new realm of possibilities. Brett Stout, Brett IPA, Brett Barleywine, Brett Quadruple, etc.

Also, scray24, thats a good point of funk and sour. Though with as sour as some of the beers I listed are, its going to be hard to do a good funk comparison.

Also, I just finished reading "Wild Brews", which is a totally fantastic book, and I'm lead to believe that brett actually does have a lot to do with how sour things get, but is definitely nearly the sole provider of the funk.
I used to think the lacto and pedio were the big guys that contribute to sour characteristics, and while they do certainly contribute some, it seems that the brett when working under superattenuation characters really throws a lot out.
 
Another update here.
Turned my fridge temp up to 78f on 5/29/09 and the beer definitely woke up.
SG of 1.034, Brett likes the heat!

minstrel1034.jpg

minstrelTest1.jpg


Aroma: Barely noticable funk sits on top a tiny note of fresh lightly sour frutiness.

Flavor: Very sweet still, a little sour at the same time. Kind of like a really ripe peach! A little funkyness, and maybe a little rye character? This is going to be interesting...
 
Thanks for the update Saq, interesting stuff.

+1 on the "wild brews" for anyone interested in this sort of brewing, another great resource that has been helpful to me is the madfermentationist.blogspot.com.

I tried one of the pale sours last night and its definitely coming around - still lots of dominant brett character but getting more sour as well.
 
+1 on that, Michael is/was incredibly helpful when I was trying to concoct my first sour/wild experiments over on BA homebrew forum and put up with a ton of noob questions.
 
Took a gravity reading, 1.020. Tastes fairly tart and flowery, I think some of the tartness is from the elderflower. Going to warm up my 1lbs of date sugar and dump it in!
 
I hope this turns out well as making some traditional ales styles with funky brett seems like a fun new realm of possibilities. Brett Stout, Brett IPA, Brett Barleywine, Brett Quadruple, etc.

Well I'm going to beat you to the punch on the Brett Quad. Ordered Brett C. today as I like the description over the other species.
Profile: Isolated from English stock ale, this wild yeast produces a mild Brett character with overtones of tropical fruit and and pineapple. It ferments best in worts with a reduced pH after primary fermentation has begun. May form a pellicle in bottles or casks. Typically used in conjunction with other yeast and lactic acid bacteria.

I like the idea of the tropical fruit and pineapple in a quad.

So all brett C quad, here's my idea on the grain bill:
Mash Temp: 155
OG: (1.095)
FG: 1.015-18
SRM: 18*
IBU: 26
16.25lbs Belgian Plisner
1.5lbs Amber Candy Sugar
.75lb CaraMunich
.5lb Wheat
.3lb Aromatic
.25lb Special B
1.5oz Styrian Golding @ 5.3% 60mins
.5oz Styrian Golding @ 5.3% 5mins
Yeast: Wyeast Brettanomyces Claussenii

Hoping for 75-80% attenuation which is what brett C alone seems to do. Hopefully in 6months or so it'll be ready to bottle. I get my hops in on Wednesday so I might be brewing this as early as then.
Also going to try my best to mimic a Belgian water profile(probably Antwerp), don't want the brett picking something in the water to ruin something I'm putting this much time and $$ into.

Maybe we'll have to do a trade. Especially if there's some other all brett beers being made.
 
You might want to ferment your beer w/brett at a fairly warm temperature, when I had ambient temp at 60f it was pretty much stalled but when I brought it up to about 70f ambient it was pretty lively. Good luck!
 
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