Closed-system pressurized fermentation technique!

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What do you guys think about pressure fermentations? Time for a poll.

  • I've done it and I liked it just fine!

  • I've done it, nothing wrong with it, but prefer normal fermentation techniques.

  • I've done it, hate it, and never will do it again!

  • I've never done it, but it is on my list!

  • I've never done anything. I only brew beer in my mind.

Results are only viewable after voting.
WortMonger said:
That would work swimmingly except for the little bit in the racking cane end piece. I wouldn't worry about that little bit of yeast at all. I thought of doing the same thing for a sanke but haven't found anything that would work yet.
Click to expand...

What's the OD on a sanke spear? I've seen "approx 1-inch", mentioned on a few home distiller forums where they were attempting to convert them to Liebig condensers. If you could friction-fit a copper reducer to the outside (or inside) of the spear, you could narrow it down to 1/2". They make replacement tips for that size OD racking cane.

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/1-2-racking-tube-replacement-tip.html

Edit: With a little bit of ingenuity, you could probably make an oversize copper end cap work too. It would just be a matter of finding a couple pieces of something food-safe to position in a few points around the outside of the spear (to emulate the molded ridges in a normal one) to make the cap stay put.
 
I just transferred my first batch of beer using this whole pressurized fermentation thing. I'm not sold. It's more than that, I'm bowing at the feet of you pioneers who made this easy for us to follow and try! How friggin' easy was that! I made a Caramel Amber (from the popular recipe on here) and it turned out delicious, carbonated and I can't wait to unveil it at our annual chili cookoff in a few weeks. Transferring with the spunding valve on the target keg was truly set and forget, and so dang easy! I wish more people would do this, it's so fun and easy! Did I say easy yet?! Thanks for all the guidance, folks!
 
I just finished 2 beers with this, and I have a few commments.

1. Make sure to pressurize the serving keg. I forgot and my pumpkin ale exploded with foam about 1/3 the way full. The easiest thing is to do is turn the valve up really high then pressurize the serving keg. Then turn the valve down slowly until you start releasing pressure and then start transferring.

2. It is awesome to use as a blow off without having all these lines and pitchers to clean.

3. Most importantly the beer is AWESOME! Personally, when I have homebrew including mine or others it always tastes yeasty and somewhat green (even after months of cold crashing). With my beers made with pressure fermenting, they taste super clean and well aged. One was a APA that tastes fresh and clean. The other was a pumpkin ale that was clean, smooth, and did not have any off flavors from the large amounts of caramel malt.

I am going to use pressure fermenting from here on out. Glad I made 2 set ups!
 
I am still so happy everyone is having such luck with this technique. Keep the thread alive with updates. I love to hear first timers experiences.
 
Hi,

Hi 3 questions/comments -

I have aquired a Miller Keg -
It has a screw in spear with NO snap in ring... it is AWESOME.
Looking to aquire one more soon.

I have the prefered mcmaster carr spunding valve, some where it has a SLOW leak. I dont think it is leaking in my hose connections at all...
I can not find any bubbles on it when I spray it.
Does anyone else have this issue? I think it is the valve itself.

Is there any chance for infection/etc with taking the sanke coupler/spunding valve off a keg and putting on another fermenting one...then putting it back on to transfer the first one? I would spray both the coupler and the connection with starsan when transferring.... thoughts?
Or Should I get another spunding valve?
But again... my valve leaks so it would deplete all the built up CO2 also

thanks Kevin
 
I saw this on FB "Rogue Nation". Is this John Maier with a spunding valve?

1378712_534212013339361_835626112_n.jpg
 
haeffnkr said:
I have the prefered mcmaster carr spunding valve, some where it has a SLOW leak. I dont think it is leaking in my hose connections at all...
I can not find any bubbles on it when I spray it.
Does anyone else have this issue? I think it is the valve itself.
Click to expand...
You need to track down where the leak is. It has to be somewhere in the process. I assume you used soapy water or star-san in a spray bottle to check. I would keep the checking up because it has to be somewhere.
haeffnkr said:
Is there any chance for infection/etc with taking the sanke coupler/spunding valve off a keg and putting on another fermenting one...then putting it back on to transfer the first one? I would spray both the coupler and the connection with starsan when transferring.... thoughts?
Or Should I get another spunding valve?
But again... my valve leaks so it would deplete all the built up CO2 also

thanks Kevin
Click to expand...
I use mine with nothing more than a dunk in clean water and then a 30 second dunk in Star-San. You should be good to go, but not if you don't find out where that leak is first.
 
JuanMoore said:
Probably. The vast majority of commercial fermenters have spunding valves on them. That's what they use in place of airlocks or blow off tubes.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but we never used them in ours on our fermentors. I got the idea from reading about the pros though. Some brite-tanks have them because of the way they are plumbed to fill and then also to not over carbonate. I have heard that most uni-tanks aren't able to handle the excessive pressures of fermentation to carbonation, but they would definitely have been used in place of a blow off tube after the initial puke of the krausen.
 
a couple of questions about your leak.

1. is the valve on the right way? not sure which one you have but mine is directional and i initially had it backwards
2. have you tried using it with a pressurized keg around 20 psi to see if it holds. I found on some kegs the psi build up is so slow that it will never seal the lid and i wont hold pressure, keg lube fixes this.
 
Does anyone know where to get replacement 'teeth' for the push to connect fittings lamarguy uses?

I like having a thermowell to get actual temperatures. Speaking of that, what are the way those of you who use just the original spears are getting temp readings?
 
-MG- said:
Does anyone know where to get replacement 'teeth' for the push to connect fittings lamarguy uses?

I like having a thermowell to get actual temperatures. Speaking of that, what are the way those of you who use just the original spears are getting temp readings?
Click to expand...

I just use a normal self-adhesive liquid-crystal strip on the outside of the keg. The metal should conduct adequately enough to be the same temperature as the fermenting beer inside (within a degree or so).

dual-scale-liquid-thermometer_1.jpg

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/dual-scale-liquid-thermometer.html

If you're feeding a temperature controller, simply hose-clamping (multiple clamps connected serially) or taping the RTD or thermocouple to the outside of the keg should work too.
 
WortMonger said:
Agreed, but we never used them in ours on our fermentors. I got the idea from reading about the pros though. Some brite-tanks have them because of the way they are plumbed to fill and then also to not over carbonate. I have heard that most uni-tanks aren't able to handle the excessive pressures of fermentation to carbonation, but they would definitely have been used in place of a blow off tube after the initial puke of the krausen.
Click to expand...

My understanding is that most Unitanks are not used to carbonate do to them being more usefull to drain them to the brite tank to get another new beer into them. The other issue is if they were to carbonate in the unitank it would need to be certified to ASME VIII and re-certified periodically (=cost). I would expect most small fermenters to be capable to handle carbonating pressure but the red-tape to get it certified is not worth it when the majority of customers don't want it.
 
Can someone offer a guideline to when/how much to build pressure? Do you start it at 1psi and turn it up 1 psi a day? Do you let it go a few days before building it up beyond 1 psi?

Also, How full can you fill a corny with this method? 4.5 gallons out of 5 for example?
 
pjcampbell said:
Can someone offer a guideline to when/how much to build pressure? Do you start it at 1psi and turn it up 1 psi a day? Do you let it go a few days before building it up beyond 1 psi?

Also, How full can you fill a corny with this method? 4.5 gallons out of 5 for example?
Click to expand...

There have been a few different methods. Some people do start around 1-2 PSI and ramp up 1 PSI each day for the first few days. I think its generally accepted that you want to keep active fermentation below 7 PSI.

I start typically at 3 PSI and leave it there and slowly ramp up to 7 PSI over probably a 4 day span.
 
For checking against leaks I found dunking in water does reveal the smallest of slow leaks. If you can step down your tee to a 37 degree flare fitting and connect a gas line with a quick disconnect, you can then pressurize the line and then disconnect the gray qd, then it becomes portable to take to a sink of water.


9/19/11 by Mad Scientist Brewhaus, on Flickr
 
pjcampbell said:
Can someone offer a guideline to when/how much to build pressure? Do you start it at 1psi and turn it up 1 psi a day? Do you let it go a few days before building it up beyond 1 psi?

Also, How full can you fill a corny with this method? 4.5 gallons out of 5 for example?
Click to expand...

I have one of those McMaster-Carr valves; 99045K44 Adjustable Pressure-Maintaining Plastic Relief Valve, 1/8 NPT Female, 0.5-30 PSI

... so that is what I mean when I say (1 turn) for example...

There are many different temperature/pressure schedules, but here is what I did last time.

Fermentation Temperature and Pressure schedule:
Pitched: 7-16-2013 at 10:30 AM

Day 1 (0 - 12 hours) - 3 PSI @ 65 F
Day 1 (12 - 18 hours) - 4 PSI @ 65 F
(turned knob 1.5 turns)
Day 1 (19+ hours) - 7 PSI @ 65 F
Day 2 - 7 PSI @ 65 F
Day 3 - 7 PSI @ 65 F
Day 4 - 7 PSI @ 65 F (10 Brix)
Day 5 - 7 PSI @ 67 F (9.4 Brix)
Day 6 - 7 PSI @ 67 F (8.7 Brix)
(turned knob 2.5 turns)
Day 7 - 12 PSI @ 71 F
Day 7 - 16 PSI @ 71 F
(turned knob 2 turns)
Day 8 - 20 PSI (estimated)
Day 13 - 19.5 PSI
7-29-2013 8.7 Brix
(turned knob 1/2 turn, to determine if pressure will increase)
Day 14 -
(turned knob 2 turns)
Day 15 - (estimated as crash chill day)
Day 16 - started crash chill
(pressure was 21.5 psi @ 71 F, 1.74 volumes of CO2)
Day 33 - pressure transferred to serving kegs
(pressure was 10.0 psi @ 33 F, 2.63 volumes of CO2)

OG: 1.068
FG: 1.016
Apparent Attenuation: 76.5%
ABV: 6.8%


Also, fermenting in a corny, you can generally get by by filling it up to the welded seam, that is 4.88 gallons or 1 quart less than 5 gallons, and add your Fermcap-S and try to get to 7 psi after the first day (4 psi might do it too).

I would say that most of us use some method of trapping any blow off from getting into our spunding valve, some use clear water filter housings.

And a BIG WARNING, use a hop spider to contain those pellet hops, hops will block the poppets and build up extreme uncontrolled pressure.
 
MadScientist do you have a schedule for brewing a lager under pressure?



1MadScientist said:
There are many different temperature/pressure schedules, but here is what I did last time. Fermentation Temperature and Pressure schedule: Pitched: 7-16-2013 at 10:30 AM Day 1 (0 - 12 hours) - 3 PSI @ 65 F Day 1 (12 - 18 hours) - 4 PSI @ 65 F (turned knob 1.5 turns) Day 1 (19+ hours) - 7 PSI @ 65 F Day 2 - 7 PSI @ 65 F Day 3 - 7 PSI @ 65 F Day 4 - 7 PSI @ 65 F (10 Brix) Day 5 - 7 PSI @ 67 F (9.4 Brix) Day 6 - 7 PSI @ 67 F (8.7 Brix) (turned knob 2.5 turns) Day 7 - 12 PSI @ 71 F Day 7 - 16 PSI @ 71 F (turned knob 2 turns) Day 8 - 20 PSI (estimated) Day 13 - 19.5 PSI 7-29-2013 8.7 Brix (turned knob 1/2 turn, to determine if pressure will increase) Day 14 - (turned knob 2 turns) Day 15 - (estimated as crash chill day) Day 16 - started crash chill (pressure was 21.5 psi @ 71 F, 1.74 volumes of CO2) Day 33 - pressure transferred to serving kegs (pressure was 10.0 psi @ 33 F, 2.63 volumes of CO2) OG: 1.068 FG: 1.016 Apparent Attenuation: 76.5% ABV: 6.8% Also, fermenting in a corny, you can generally get by by filling it up to the welded seam, that is 4.88 gallons or 1 quart less than 5 gallons, and add your Fermcap-S and try to get to 7 psi after the first day (4 psi might do it too). I would say that most of us use some method of trapping any blow off from getting into our spunding valve, some use clear water filter housings. And a BIG WARNING, use a hop spider to contain those pellet hops, hops will block the poppets and build up extreme uncontrolled pressure.
Click to expand...
 
truanthony said:
MadScientist do you have a schedule for brewing a lager under pressure?
Click to expand...

Maybe WortMonger has.

Here is a quote from lamarguy;
[More of lamarguy's comments] Using this technique, my ales (< 1.070) are on a 14 day schedule but I can see a lager (< 1.060) requiring an additional 1 - 2 weeks of lagering (~45F (45 °F = 7.2 °C)) time before its flavor is "ideal". Notice that I halved the recommended lagering time based on the assumption the pressured fermented beer has a lower overall ester profile. Realistically, 21 - 28 days for a lager but still much shorter than 2 months."
 
WOW what a doozie of a read. I spent most of my day at work reading and then finished up at home.

I have recently acquired a "S" style Sankey keg that was filled with Stella Artois. I figured this would be a great complement to my 3 keggle system.

Coupline or Tri-Clover??? at first I was digging the BrewersHardware setup with the dip tube as I currently ferment using a thermowell with my STC-100 probe submerged in starsan. then I saw the price tag and was turned off.

but a Euro style coupler isn't cheap eather $30 for the coupler, $36 for the PRV plus misc parts and pieces im at about the same price.

I haven't really seen anyones photos of the Brewers Hardware tri clover setup but i've seen plenty with keg couplers. how does one go about connecting the PRV to the "blow off" port on the sanke cap?

-=Jason=-
 
Flowmaster-
Don't forget the sounding set up if you want to ferment under pressure that'll add at least $35 to Derrins kit.
 
I am about half-way through the thread, but there hasn't been much talk of using conicals at higher pressures. Does anyone use a conical at higher pressures?
 
I plan to but it all depends on what conical you have. Most home versions are not rated for much pressure if any at all. I have a brewhemoth which can be pressurized, I believe I've seen it tested to over 60 psi. I don't believe the scale of our conicals mimmic what a real brewery's conical does in terms of gravity on the yeast if that's what your curious about.
 
pickles said:
I plan to but it all depends on what conical you have. Most home versions are not rated for much pressure if any at all. I have a brewhemoth which can be pressurized, I believe I've seen it tested to over 60 psi. I don't believe the scale of our conicals mimmic what a real brewery's conical does in terms of gravity on the yeast if that's what your curious about.
Click to expand...

I saw a mention on Brewhemoth's page stating they pressure test to 100psi. I gotta imagine that is just the metal tank itself? I wonder what the pressure rating of tri-clover port and butterfly dump valves would even come close to 60 psi...
 
I haven't been following this thread for a while, but did I just see someone say 60+ PSI??

What in the hell are you pressure cooking in there?

As far as I know, commercial scale fermenters don't brew at that kind of pressure? I know many of us have been on this pressure kick because we're mimicking the pressures that yeast sustains at the bottom of a commercial scale fermenter.

Considering water column pressure alone, even a colossal 20ft tall fermenter would only have about 8.7 psi at the very BOTTOM. Any additional pressure would be from gas build up on top of that. Are they building up that much pressure? At that point I'd be worried about crushing the yeast like a U-boat.

Or maybe as long as its a slow steady build, the yeast acclimate to it like divers. Osmosis ****. So maybe as long as you don't drop pressure suddenly, you're good? Don't want to give those little guys the bends.

Tell me if I'm wrong?
 
The 60 psi would force carbonate a beer at room temperature. Its got nothing to do with a good fermentation. Also if you were referring to mention of 60 psi a few posts back, that is more equipment related. If I was gonna pressure ferment I would want equipment that could handle unplanned pressure escalations.
 
pickles said:
Flowmaster-
Don't forget the sounding set up if you want to ferment under pressure that'll add at least $35 to Derrins kit.
Click to expand...

well I think I can probably silver solder or have a tri-clover setup welded for me way cheaper that buying Derrins kit. no offense to him he is running a business, but im a home brewer and DIY'er and i'll DIY or get made cheaply when ever possible. hence building my keggles instead of buying pots.

-=Jason=-
 
I'm building my spunding set up for my Brewhemoth conical and I've come across a dilemna; when dumping yeast will I need to depressurize to prevent a massive blowout? if it's only pressurized to 4-5 psi will that need to be released slowly to prevent yeast damage? I could wait to a few days, dump yeast, then begin to let the pressure build. I'm curious to see what you folks think. Anyone currently fermenting under pressure in a conical?
 
pickles said:
I'm building my spunding set up for my Brewhemoth conical and I've come across a dilemna; when dumping yeast will I need to depressurize to prevent a massive blowout? if it's only pressurized to 4-5 psi will that need to be released slowly to prevent yeast damage? I could wait to a few days, dump yeast, then begin to let the pressure build. I'm curious to see what you folks think. Anyone currently fermenting under pressure in a conical?
Click to expand...

Anything above 3-4psi is too high to transfer/dump IMHO. Higher and the yeast cells will burst when you dump due to the sudden pressure change.

I usually ferment around 7psi lowering to 3 psi to transfer or dump and ramping up to 15-20 (depending on the psi to vol needed) the last couple of degrees Plato to carb.
 

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