Is it really this simple?

Alright, the natural gas fired, RIMS Sabco Brew Magic converstion to e-HERMS is complete. I'm expecting to receive an order or ingredients for my first batch and I'd like to see how bad I can screw this up on Saturday morning. Never done all grain, only a few partial mash brews, and never watched anyone else brew an all grain batch.

I boiled water in the BK the other night, pumped liquid around the through all the kettles and coil. Still working on getting the pumps to positively prime each time, especially from the low-sitting BK.

So...about this all grain thing...I've read some threads, watched some YouTube, read some things in a few books.

It has to be more complicated than this:

Bring up my HLT water for the HERMS coil to a degree or two above my desired mash temp, heat sparge water in the BK and then pump it into the mash tun. Probably push it through the coil a bit to make up for the lost heat in the MLT.

Dump/stir grain into the mash water. Pump at a sloooooow rate through the HERMS coil for an hour (or longer depending on the recipe). At the end of the mash time, raise the temp to 165 or 170 and run the wort into the kettle. Pump water from the HLT into the MLT to batch sparge until I hit my preboil volume.

Boil until I hit desired post boil volume adding hops along the way.

Chill, aerate, pitch.

Is it really that simple?

Anything can be simple if you're prepared to throw that much cash at it!

daksin said:

Anything can be simple if you're prepared to throw that much cash at it!

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+1! That machine is a thing of beauty and I hope to one day be a proud owner of one! Even with a cooler for a mash tun and a pot that barely fits my stove, it's not hard though.

daksin said:

Anything can be simple if you're prepared to throw that much cash at it!

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OClairBrew said:

+1! That machine is a thing of beauty and I hope to one day be a proud owner of one! Even with a cooler for a mash tun and a pot that barely fits my stove, it's not hard though.

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You two obviously didn't look at the link in my sig line. I bought this thing beat up and in desperate need of copious amounts of TLC. It was bad enough the RIMS tube wasn't worth salvaging and most of the plumbing needed to be replaced. It's a far cry from the new systems.

Yes, I did invest some decent cash getting it to where it is, but the cost of going this route was almost the same as building the recirculating BIAB system I was working up.

I got tired of doing 5 gallon extract batches with a turkey fryer aluminum pot and propane.

Of course it's simple. People managed to do it thousands of years ago, and they were hella dumb back then.

BrewKnurd said:

Of course it's simple. People managed to do it thousands of years ago, and they were hella dumb back then.

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Well, yeah...but there's the iodine tests for conversion, quarts per pound of grain, protein rests, etc...I just want to brew beer for the first batch. I like to tinker...it's why I brew and reload my own rifle ammunition, etc, but I just want to brew a batch of beer and see how the process goes the first time through.

I think it's simple.

BTW, I've been to Lititz. Small world.

jtkratzer said:

Well, yeah...but there's the iodine tests for conversion,

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Don't worry about that. Mash for an hour and you'll be converted. Most likely well before that, but if you're worried, leave it an hour and forget the iodine test.

jtkratzer said:

quarts per pound of grain,

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Don't worry about that. Anywhere between 1 and 2 qts per pound and there is a world class brewer out there using the same water/grist ratio.

jtkratzer said:

protein rests,

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Don't worry about that. Plenty of people have never done a protein rest in their life. Nowhere near as important with the highly modified malts we have today as it was back in the day.

jtkratzer said:

etc...I just want to brew beer for the first batch. I like to tinker...it's why I brew and reload my own rifle ammunition, etc, but I just want to brew a batch of beer and see how the process goes the first time through.

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You'll be fine.

Sounds like you have a nice brewery. Brew!

passedpawn said:

I think it's simple.

BTW, I've been to Lititz. Small world.

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It's a nice place in the world and I enjoy my small piece of it near the airport up on a hill with some deer that run through the woods on the edge of the yard.

Clearwater is where the Phillies do their spring training, I believe.

BrewKnurd said:

Don't worry about that. Mash for an hour and you'll be converted. Most likely well before that, but if you're worried, leave it an hour and forget the iodine test.

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Didn't think I needed one. Recipe says to mash for 60 minutes.

Don't worry about that. Anywhere between 1 and 2 qts per pound and there is a world class brewer out there using the same water/grist ratio.

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That's what I've been reading, mostly 1.25, 1.33, or 1.5 quarts/lb.

Don't worry about that. Plenty of people have never done a protein rest in their life. Nowhere near as important with the highly modified malts we have today as it was back in the day.

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Also read that, too. Didn't think it was necessary.

You'll be fine.

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Figured it wouldn't be that bad.

Just wanted to make sure this simple seeming process in my head wasn't going to blow my mind on Saturday morning.

With the wort that will be in your herms coil and plumbing in between I would run the 1.5-2qt/lb. That will help keep things from getting gummed up in your MLT. Sounds like you are set to have a great time! Brew on!

My first run on my new system was not too bad other than breaking my hydrometer and not being able to take an O.G. reading. After a couple pints, I know it was close to the mark. The hardest part for me was figuring what strike temp the water needed to be in order to hit my mash target temp. With your herms system, you will be able to adjust that however. I am still working out strike temps with different grain amounts. I also needed to scale up the recipes to account for my brewhouse efficiency. My first two batches were only 4.5 galllons. A simple batch sparge as you are doing is also the best way to go. I actually do two seperate sparges to double wash the grain. It does take a little longer to do it this way, I remember someone saying that it only adds two or three points in efficiency, but I still do it.

bbrim said:

With the wort that will be in your herms coil and plumbing in between I would run the 1.5-2qt/lb. That will help keep things from getting gummed up in your MLT. Sounds like you are set to have a great time! Brew on!

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That's what I was thinking. Saw this on some YouTube videos with HERMS/RIMS systems.

gunmetal said:

My first run on my new system was not too bad other than breaking my hydrometer and not being able to take an O.G. reading. After a couple pints, I know it was close to the mark. The hardest part for me was figuring what strike temp the water needed to be in order to hit my mash target temp. With your herms system, you will be able to adjust that however. I am still working out strike temps with different grain amounts. I also needed to scale up the recipes to account for my brewhouse efficiency. My first two batches were only 4.5 galllons. A simple batch sparge as you are doing is also the best way to go. I actually do two seperate sparges to double wash the grain. It does take a little longer to do it this way, I remember someone saying that it only adds two or three points in efficiency, but I still do it.

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I figured I would get the strike water up to temp and them pump it through the HERMS coil if I lose more than expected from the cold MLT.

I've seen some people who only have the capacity to run one heating element at a time actually heat the strike water with the HERMS coil alone as the HLT heats up.

Being able to run both 5500w elements on 240 should speed things up considerably.




What I need to learn, and it will happen over time, is the volumes. Strike water seems easy, but I don't know my boil off rate, and I need to read up on the math on calculating efficiency, etc.

You can make this as simple or as complicated as yoiu wish. The people that obsess over every detail are the ones that are most likely to post here frequently. That doesn't mean they are the majority ( doesn't mean they aren't, either).

william_shakes_beer said:

You can make this as simple or as complicated as yoiu wish. The people that obsess over every detail are the ones that are most likely to post here frequently. That doesn't mean they are the majority ( doesn't mean they aren't, either).

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The main focus is great beer. Repeatability is next and why I went with a recirculating, temp controlled mash. If I can do consistent mash and fermentation temps, that's a big jump from how I have been brewing.

I do make starters, but then we're getting into pitching rates, which gets into an entire different ball game/park.

I read through a good portion of your system build just now and am still super jealous. You should have no problem making great beer with your setup. If I were you I would find a fairly simple mid-gravity recipe to brew for your maiden voyage. Have a written plan lined up and have some sort of plan B for major steps in case something doesn't go as planned so you aren't stressed. Let us know how it goes and post pics or it didn't happen!

OClairBrew said:

I read through a good portion of your system build just now and am still super jealous. You should have no problem making great beer with your setup. If I were you I would find a fairly simple mid-gravity recipe to brew for your maiden voyage. Have a written plan lined up and have some sort of plan B for major steps in case something doesn't go as planned so you aren't stressed. Let us know how it goes and post pics or it didn't happen!

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I figured a 10 gallon batch of Centennial Blonde wouldn't be too expensive if it ends up more effed up than a football bat. It's a beer we've liked when I brewed either extract or partial mash, so I'm hopful that things work out and something close results, but as long as I get through the process without any catastrophic failures, like death, I'll be happy.

It was that simple. I learned a few things along the way about my system, but the process was straight forward. I'm pumped about tasting this beer in a few weeks.

william_shakes_beer said:

You can make this as simple or as complicated as yoiu wish. The people that obsess over every detail are the ones that are most likely to post here frequently. That doesn't mean they are the majority ( doesn't mean they aren't, either).

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Exactly! I've made some "mistakes" with some of my brews over the years like forgetting to raise to MO temp, losing some wort due to an inadvertent open valve, reaching into a fermenting bucket with a minimally sanitized arm, forgetting the Irish Moss, hop addition mixups, etc, etc. All turned out to be beer and drank & pee'd just fine! I don't worry about efficiency as long as it's predictable had I hit my calcs pretty closely. After all, it ain't goin' to the moon (but it IS life support)!!

Junkster said:

Exactly! I've made some "mistakes" with some of my brews over the years like forgetting to raise to MO temp, losing some wort due to an inadvertent open valve, reaching into a fermenting bucket with a minimally sanitized arm, forgetting the Irish Moss, hop addition mixups, etc, etc. All turned out to be beer and drank & pee'd just fine! I don't worry about efficiency as long as it's predictable had I hit my calcs pretty closely. After all, it ain't goin' to the moon (but it IS life support)!!

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Yesterday was fun. I didn't stress over it. It was a cheap batch of beer to learn on. It was a big jump from doing mostly extract to my first all grain and first full run through on the electric HERMS, but it was a good time. I got beer, and it's churning away like a lava lamp right now. I did do a water content test, I didn't do a pH test, or iodine test. Just brewed beer.

I'll take better notes and things will go smoother and faster next time now that I learned a few tricks with the pumps and temps.

Make up a checklist. It makes the brew session go alot smoother and you don't forget anything then. Good luck!

seanybubbles said:

Make up a checklist. It makes the brew session go alot smoother and you don't forget anything then. Good luck!

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That would help. As soon as I finished a step, I ran through the next in my head. Before doing anything with the pumps, I talked myself through where each source was coming from and what the destination was. Everything worked out yesterday after figuring out the pumps.

I kept reading that people pump too fast when recirculating the mash and I think that slowed me down as I barely had the pump open and it was enough to actually move the liquid the distance and height I needed to. I also figured out that if I could see the end of the tubing back at the top of the mash, rather than have it submerged, I could positively tell whether or not things were flowing.

The tip I read about having a pitcher at all times to collect wort and liquid when primping the pumps was invaluable.

To clean everything, I had hot PBW flowing through two vessels, two pumps, and through the HERMS coil all in one continuous loop while u scooped the rest of the grain out of the mash tun. That took a minute to plan the hose routes.

+1 on the checklist. I made up a brew session worksheet to record temps, water treatment, various steps along the way. For me, having blanks to record certain data serves as a reminder to do it and it's good reference if you want to repeat that brew.

Junkster said:

+1 on the checklist. I made up a brew session worksheet to record temps, water treatment, various steps along the way. For me, having blanks to record certain data serves as a reminder to do it and it's good reference if you want to repeat that brew.

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Can I get a copy of that? No need to reinvent the wheel.

Here is a slightly outdated version of mine...

http://db.tt/tlc3SZfk

jtkratzer said:

Can I get a copy of that? No need to reinvent the wheel.

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Here it is - parts may not make much sense to others, but it worked for me. It didn't convert very well from Excel, but at least you get an idea. These types of things are probably best developed by the person who will use them.....

It really is that simple. I remember for the first few AG brewdays I kept thinking I was forgetting something. Nope. It was really that simple! It's not really a difficult process, just a different one.

beerloaf

Sounds like you did fine. We all stressed on our first AG. That checklist works for me. I'm fine now after 5 brews. Only had problems on first one.