45 Min AG Boil

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Sean

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60-min boil time is the standard, but I am not sure why. I am thinking about a 45 min boil for an IPA. I am also going to do a 45 min mash, which I have done in the past successfully. With these shorter times, I think I can get down to close to 3 hours for an AG batch. Baring any mishaps!!

I know the mash works. With an IPA, is there any reason to do a 60 min boil?
I am not trying to accentuate malt flavor, it is mostly 2row anyway. I have calculated that I would have to add about 50% more hops at 45 min to get the same IBUs as adding at 60 min. I can get it to the volume I need in that time.

What are your thoughts? Is there any reason to do a 60 min boil? This would not be best for a Pils, or stout, but for an IPA?
 
I would not recommend the 45 minute boil as you will not get full hop utilization. The purpose of the 60 minute boil time is so your bittering hop can do it's job and pass on the needed IBUs to your beer. Since you are doing an IPA, I would definitely do the 60 minute boil. If you're interested in saving time you should check out the Aussie style brew in a bag. Basically one vessel brewing. Good Luck!
 
The main reasons for the standard 60-100 minute boil times are

1.) tradition
2.) hop utilization/elimination of flavor/aroma contribution by bittering hops
3.) getting rid of DMS

DMS might be a concern with a 45-minute boil, but generic 2-row malt isn't nearly as rich in DMS precursors as Pilsner malt is. I say give it a shot and report back.
 
My last brew (see high FG post) was boiled for 15 minutes without hops and bittering hops went in for 45 minutes, I find I get sufficient bittering with 1 oz of cascade hops as the bittering hop. (per 5.5 gallons)
 
I agree Arcane, DMS might be an issue.

I will be boiling off over 10%, and can cool it within 15 minutes, and it will have about 60 IBU, so I am not sure how perceptable it would be.
 
My last brew (see high FG post) was boiled for 15 minutes without hops and bittering hops went in for 45 minutes, I find I get sufficient bittering with 1 oz of cascade hops as the bittering hop. (per 5.5 gallons)

I am considering this hop schedule:

45 Min: 1.1 oz 13.2% Simcoe
30 Min: 0.2 oz 5.4% Cascade and 0.2% 8.2% Amarillo
20 Min: 0.2 oz 5.4% Cascade, 0.2% 8.2% Amarillo, 0.2 oz 7.0% Sterling
10 Min: 0.2 oz 5.4% Cascade, 0.2% 8.2% Amarillo, 0.2 oz 7.0% Sterling
0 Min: 0.2 oz 5.4% Cascade, 0.2% 8.2% Amarillo, 0.2 oz 7.0% Sterling
Dry: 0.5 oz each Simcoe, Cascade, Amarillo and Sterling

The Simcoe will add about 35IBUs, and the other additions will add about 20-25.
 
I know the mash works. With an IPA, is there any reason to do a 60 min boil?

You will have to use more hops to get the same bitterness. This will lead to more sludge and lost wort. You will either have to strain the sludge or start with more wort, and thus more grain. So, it is a cost issue mostly. But that would be the only downside. I don't think DMS is an issue at all with non-pilsner malt. Even if it is, it is all driven off with a good 30 min. boil.
 
It'd be fine, I think. I boil for 60 minutes or longer, just because I need to reduce my volume sometimes. If you have a vigorous boil and don't have DMS issues, I think 45 minutes for a boil is sufficient.
 
I brewed a higher gravity IPA last week. I realized that my eff. was lower than usual, so there must be more sugar in the grains. So I sparged again with 2 gallons of water and got wort with a pre-boil SG of 1.026. I only boiled for 30 minutes to get an OG of 1.034. Hopped with .25 oz. 5.4% Cascades at 30 min and .25 oz. of Cascade at flame out. Got me 16 IBUs. Just an experiment to see what a low gravity mild pale ale would taste like.

As long as there is no worry about DMS and you accounted for less boil off, I don't see too much problem with a shorter boil. Only one way to find out - just do it! Make sure you post your results for the rest of us.
 
A HUGE reason for the boil is to denature and coagulate grain proteins for final beer clarification, shelf life, and stability along with other reasons mentioned. A sufficient boil is very important. I highly recommend boiling for AT LEAST 60 minutes but you do what you want.
 
A HUGE reason for the boil is to denature and coagulate grain proteins for final beer clarification, shelf life, and stability along with other reasons mentioned. A sufficient boil is very important. I highly recommend boiling for AT LEAST 60 minutes but you do what you want.

I will look into that, thank you for the reply. I understand how protiens need to be precipitated out for clarification, but how does it affect stability and shelf life.

And yes sir, I will certainly do what I want, after all it is only beer..:D
 
I've talked with PRO brewers who do 45 min mashes / boils without problems. I've done 45 min boils without problems but not mashes since I typically mash a little lower in temp. Using Pilsner, as well... No chill haze, no clarity or shelf life issues, etc. Flavor was fine, as was the bitterness, no DMS, no popcorn, butter, corn or anything else. IDK, maybe I'm lucky. But I have a feeling a lot of folks are spouting things they've read and heard but never experimented with themselves. Kinda like I read on here someone said wine yeast wouldn't ferment maltose... Yea, that's bogus, too.

I think it has a lot more to do with surface area to volume ratio than anything else when it comes to DMS. If you've got 6.5 gallons in a 10 gallon pot with a wide opening vs. 6.5 gallons in a 10 gallon pot with a narrow opening, there is more chance for DMS to boil off in the wider mouthed pot than the narrower one, imo. And if you bump that up to a multi-barrel system, the opening of the kettle will only allow so much DMS out the top which is why some brewers may go with longer boils, not to mention the fact that it also helps increase bitterness thereby decreasing the amount of hops required...

Proteins are precipitated out by hot and cold break amongst other things. The longer you boil, the more will be precipitated out BUT only to a certain point / degree, i.e. it is a diminishing return over the length of the boil. The majority of it, from my understanding, comes at hot break which is well before 45 mins is up in the boil.

As some have said, it is your beer, do what you want. I have experimented with mine and found that conventional wisdom and what's told as gospel truth on here is not necessarily true or wise. And those that would tell you that something MUST be a certain way need only look back 10 or so years when no one would think of leaving a beer in primary (you HAVE to do secondaries), leaving a beer longer that 4 weeks before it is bottled was a must (now we leave them for months), and hot side aeration was gonna kill us all...

Sorry for the rambling post but that's what I got. Good luck.
 
90 minutes will get u full hop isomerization. 60 minutes will get you very close though.

It's all about hop Isomerization!!
 
I understand longer boil = more utilization, I personally prefer 90 min boils. But after reading this and playing with beersmith you can get the ibu's by making the flavoring/aroma hop additions earlier in the boil. Theres obviously less caramelization but im still curious how this turned out.
 
KeyWestBrewing said:
I understand longer boil = more utilization, I personally prefer 90 min boils. But after reading this and playing with beersmith you can get the ibu's by making the flavoring/aroma hop additions earlier in the boil. Theres obviously less caramelization but im still curious how this turned out.

You DEFINITELY do not want to move flavor and aroma editions earlier. You will boil off those properties. 5-10 min aroma. Flavor dies around 20 minutes in the boil.
 
According to the famous hop utilization chart, you should boil for 50 minutes, because that's when the curve essentially flattens out. I usually bitter for 45 minutes after the threat of foamovers has subsided, because I would rather save 15 minutes of propane than save 1-2 grams of hops.
 
This worked out fine, and I have done a few more batches with 45min or 50 min boil. They have been pretty simple pale ales, or IPAs.

No veg flavors, fairly clear, no secondary, good flavor at about 8 weeks.

It doesn't seem like much time to save, but I seem to plan better, and have all my stuff together if I know I have a shorter boil, so it is probably just my attitude.

Luck!
 
Glad to see it worked. I tried a 45 min boil on my last batch. Mostly just to experiment, but also mostly since I got a new 11.5 gal boil kettle with a much bigger circumference than my old kettle. It burned off 1.5 gal over a 45min boil so I think the batch will turn out just fine.
 
Thanks for replying with your experiences. I am always looking for ways to shorten the brew day (wife always thinks my brew days take too long, even though I am usually halfway done before she even wakes up on the weekend!) and I think this may just be one of them. I have done 45 min mashes with pretty good results, and now that I have a HERMS setups with pumps that can recirculate I think I can get even better efficiency.

I’ll be doing this on my next 2-row base malted batch. I will plan on a more vigorous boil to try to drive out as much DMS as possible.
 

I didn’t find any real good information in the link you provided that suggests a 70 or 90 minute boil is necessary other than hops utilization and obtaining a higher gravity. Both of these variables can be accommodated for in other ways (add more hops, add more sugars). The primary intent of this thread (at least as I read it) is to come up with ways to obtain the shortest all-grain brewday possible without affecting the quality of beer. As stated, the OP and others have achieved this.

As far as I’m concerned, you can boil for 900 minutes. I’ll be enjoying my shortened brew day by taking the OP’s suggestions.

Edit: This is the only thing I found in that article that comes close to giving a good reason for 70-90 minute boils, and I call shenanigans:

From practical point of view, boiling should not take less than 90 minutes. The specific length depends on the hop schedule. The minimum time is explained by the following. Sterilization requires about 5 minutes. An additional 10 minutes (total of 15 minutes) will kill the enzymes. Another 15 minutes are needed to eliminate tannin originating from malt husks. This first half hour, in case of infusion mash, is to decompose and precipitate some of the proteins. This should be accomplished before hops are added, because otherwise the sticky hop resins will combine with the coarse protein flocks and precipitate out of solution.
 
Let me help:

1. Lower ph

2. Coagulation of proteins which can reduce haze/chill

3. Drives out oxygen which can darken color

4. They suggest sterilizing the wort, eliminating enzymes and reducing tannins before adding hops (almost 30 minutes THEN you start your hop schedule) REGARDLESS of it the hop resins stick to proteins


Finally, it will raise your OG!

Not saying its a rule to do this, not saying that they are correct but I enjoyed it and stick by 75+. Don't know about the hop resin and protein boiling out. The minimum for me is a 82 minute...22 to a true rolling boil, FWH during this time if in the recipe. Then a 60 minute boil.
 
The minimum for me is a 82 minute...22 to a true rolling boil, FWH during this time if in the recipe. Then a 60 minute boil.

I don't start timing my boil until reaching a true rolling boil. Your 22 minutes does not enter into my calculations. I didn't see any indication on the site you referenced that the counted the non-boiling time, either. So from my way of thinking, you are doing a 60-minute boil, like most everyone else.
 
My preference is to do a 90 min boil, I dont start counting down until im at a rolling boil AND the hot break has passed. After that happens, I boil for 30 min then start my hop schedule. BUT I did try a 45 min boil the other day just for the sake of experimenting. I will probably not stray from my 90 min boils in the future though, I like caramelizing the wort a bit.
 
I don't start timing my boil until reaching a true rolling boil. Your 22 minutes does not enter into my calculations. I didn't see any indication on the site you referenced that the counted the non-boiling time, either. So from my way of thinking, you are doing a 60-minute boil, like most everyone else.

True...so my 90 minute boils are really 68. I'm doing one gallon batches as well. If I swirld the wort at all I can get a boil much faster but I've really got it down to a science on my time and volumes...allows me to do other things
 
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