New way to control Pellet Hop gunk!

Nice. I just got a 6X14 300 in the mail and I think my next beer is actually gonna be a zombie dust 6 gallon batch.

Hi all, sorry for the lack of activity but my recent builds have put a serious hamper on actually brewing! That's all going to change in the next week or so. Chad from Arbor is building me a couple of 12"diameter x 22" long monsters for my boil kettles and even a small 6" x 10" corner filter for my waster sink to catch any wayward chunks from my CIP system. Will post pics and update soon!

So I have been keeping up with this thread close to when it started. I know this question has been asked by several people and I recall the concensus being that the 300 mesh is what most people recommended. However, I have heard that it clogs but I think this is mainly folks who recirc through the spider while chilling. I am about to buy one but I am on the fence about which mesh opening to get due to the clogging potential.

I brew mainly with leaf hops but I do use pellets as well. I may actually buy more pellets after I get this spider because they are easier to store. I have a plate chiller and a pump. I was planning on one passing it through the chiller into a carboy but I may recirc because I have a pump (I haven't brewed with this new equipment yet so I am not sure). My main concern is keeping junk out of my plate chiller. I even have a hop rocket which I also plan to put in-line to also help act as a filter.

So aside from the hop particles there is the hot break material which I assume people are trying to clean up by recirc'ing with the pump (minus the chiller) back through this hop spider.

So considering all of this, I am about to order one and I need to decide which mesh size to use. So any input on the mesh size you recommend would be greatly appreciated. But please include your method of chilling your wort and if you try and get the hot break material or not. Thanks!

Finally got around to brewing this weekend and I used the filter as a post-chilling filter. In other words, I free dropped the pellets into the boil, chilled, and then recirculated through the filter to catch all the gunk. Worked great. From a mental standpoint, I like this better than using the filter as designed (i.e., filter in the boil, hops thrown into the filter) because I think I will always worry about getting the right utilization with the temperature differential inside the filter, lack of boiling action, and potential for clogging and not actually getting wort circulation through the filter mesh during the boil.

I wonder if a bottle dry hopper can be made? Under $15.

I struggled to use mine as a break filter. On the hot break it got nothing(300 mesh). Big chunks were evident as boil started, but a recirc collected next to nothing over 20 minutes.

Cold break recirc clogged the filter instantly. I had 1.5oz in there so perhaps the gunk combined with the hops to clog? I may give this another go with no hops, but it was recirculating fine until a certain temperature was reached and then bam, all the sudden it clogged really fast.

I'm using my dry hop designed for BB's right now. Just dry hopped an all Columbus IPA w/ leaf hops. Works like a charm!

pfgonzo said:

I think I will always worry about getting the right utilization with the temperature differential inside the filter, lack of boiling action, and potential for clogging and not actually getting wort circulation through the filter mesh during the boil.

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1) i doubt there is a noticeable difference between 208 and 212*F
2) i'm not convinced that lack of boiling action is important - but maybe it is. i ladle hot wort into my filter a few times during the boil, that provides all the circulation i need.
3) clogging is indeed a concern and one that needs to be managed. it's going to be a problem with any mesh/screen/filter that you use to control hops. hop bags have the same issue, IMO. the fundamental issue is that the size of mesh that is needed to retain hop particle is so small that the mesh clogs - so the only way to prevent it from clogging would be to make it bigger... which would let the hop particle through.

I've somewhat moved away from using the screen myself.

I "thought" I wasn't losing some hop usage, until one day I brewed and said piss on cleaning it and using it, so I just tossed it all in the kettle, and then drained the kettle and left most of the crap in the bottom.

I noticed the loss of hop flavor and aroma shortly there after. I still get plenty clear beer using whirlfloc and chilling it down and not being stingy when I keg...

If I'm brewing with all leaf, I will however drop the filter in, around 5 minutes, and chill with it in there, and push it up against my kettles valve to keep any large leaf particulate getting in and floating around.

I am pretty sure that the clogging issue is all about surface area. I went with a smaller diameter filter on the first round and it clogged badly. I jumped up to the 6" diameter spider and had a lot fewer issues. I now use both and have extremely clear beer, do not clog my silly funnel screen anymore, wasting time cleaning it, and makes my brew day and end product better. I have one of the hoppiest beers I have ever tasted and I used these filters, so I am pretty darn certain it is not affecting hop utilization, isomeration, etc. In the brewing world, there is no one method that works for everyone. Find what works for you and improve on it. These filters have improved my beer and I will keep using them until I find something better!! Cheers all!!

bovineblitz said:

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Just wanted to drop in a comment on the dry hop tube for better bottles I got. I had a 5oz dry hop a batch or so ago so I just threw all the hops into the fermenter without the tube and transferred to the bottling bucket by putting my autosiphon inside the dry hop tube. It worked beautifully, I got a lot more beer out than I normally do and it was very clear. The mesh didn't clog at all. I think I'm going to use the tube in this fashion going forward, that way I can definitely maximize utilization by leaving the hops loose and get the max amount of beer out possible every time.

I guess I shouldn't call it a dry hop tube anymore, haha.

Great idea! When I first used mine I gradually added pellet hops to it so I would avoid any clumping but I still had to pull it out and shake it around a couple times. Edit thought you meant you used it as a filter to a secondary fermenter. Still a good idea though.

bovineblitz said:

Just wanted to drop in a comment on the dry hop tube for better bottles I got. I had a 5oz dry hop a batch or so ago so I just threw all the hops into the fermenter without the tube and transferred to the bottling bucket by putting my autosiphon inside the dry hop tube. It worked beautifully, I got a lot more beer out than I normally do and it was very clear. The mesh didn't clog at all. I think I'm going to use the tube in this fashion going forward, that way I can definitely maximize utilization by leaving the hops loose and get the max amount of beer out possible every time.

I guess I shouldn't call it a dry hop tube anymore, haha.

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People have been using cheap paint strainers like this foe a long time. One thing to note, any time you push wort through a filter like that you are also aerating it.

stompbox said:

People have been using cheap paint strainers like this foe a long time. One thing to note, any time you push wort through a filter like that you are also aerating it.

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If you use a good amount of hops with a bag it clogs up. Same with dropping it all the way down into the trub. With this I can just set it down and let it rip and it doesn't get stuck. I've strained with bags before and it was a pain, had to wiggle them around to try to get enough crap off of them to keep the flow going.

I don't understand what you mean about aeration in this case, if the filter is submerged there's no air mixing with the beer at all, just beer running through a stainless screen 'underwater'. This is on the pickup side of the siphon, not the output.

bovineblitz said:

If you use a good amount of hops with a bag it clogs up. Same with dropping it all the way down into the trub. With this I can just set it down and let it rip and it doesn't get stuck. I've strained with bags before and it was a pain, had to wiggle them around to try to get enough crap off of them to keep the flow going.

I don't understand what you mean about aeration in this case, if the filter is submerged there's no air mixing with the beer at all, just beer running through a stainless screen 'underwater'. This is on the pickup side of the siphon, not the output.

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I thought you were putting the filter on the hose end. I guess I misread that.

I often use a large grain bag on the end of the auto siphon in favor of letting the dry hops free ball.

bovineblitz said:

Just wanted to drop in a comment on the dry hop tube for better bottles I got. I had a 5oz dry hop a batch or so ago so I just threw all the hops into the fermenter without the tube and transferred to the bottling bucket by putting my autosiphon inside the dry hop tube. It worked beautifully, I got a lot more beer out than I normally do and it was very clear. The mesh didn't clog at all. I think I'm going to use the tube in this fashion going forward, that way I can definitely maximize utilization by leaving the hops loose and get the max amount of beer out possible every time.

I guess I shouldn't call it a dry hop tube anymore, haha.

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I did this this past weekend as well. It took an extra pump to get the siphon started, but after that it worked beautifully. There was 1.25oz of leaf hops and 0.75 oz of pellet hops dry hopping in my batch.

I used my BB mesh tube w/ fresh hops for the first time about 10 days ago. I just moved the beer to a keg for conditioning.
The hop tube really did its job. I just slowly removed it from my BB to let it drain w/ no problems.
Clean up was also easy. I just shook out the bulk of the hops then rinsed well with hot water before drying. No clogging at all.
I'll be using it again over the weekend to dry hop w/ Mosaic pellets in a Wheat IPA.

Hey all,

I saw this thread and wanted to share.

I got the 4x10 300 micron from Chad via Amazon over a month ago. I am doing partial volume extract boils in a 8 gallon megapot. I have used it three times.

On my last brew I had 4.5 oz of pellets in the 2.5 gallon boil with no problems. Using Fermcap-s I am able to get a very vigorous boil in the pot. The hop spider from arborfab takes care of my pellets and I will sometimes pick it up and stir the wort with it during the boil but I have yet to clog it. I cool the hot wort by submerging the boil kettle in an ice bath and then I dump from my chilled wort through a double mesh strainer to the funnel into my carboy. This time I barely had anything end up in my strainer and the hop cake in the spider had next to no hop smell. Also, I was able to clean out the hop spider by using the kitchen sprayer. I could have put it into the dishwasher if I wanted to be really lazy but there was no need.

4.5oz seems to be the upper limit for the boils I am doing and since I had another 2 inches of space in my pot I asked Chad through his website, http://www.arborfab.com/, to custom build me a 4x11.5 300 micron hop spider. A quick email exchange and I got it less than 2 weeks later and it floats perfectly above the bottom of my pot.


A great addition to my brewing rig and something I would easily recommend to any of my fellow brewers.

Now off to plan by next brew!

Cheers!

-T

New additions to the brew stable! Two 12" diameter 22" long 300m filters and a 6" x 10" 500m corner filter for the sink when pumping out the CIP cart! The corner filter will also serve as a grain basket for steeping grain in test batches.

bovineblitz said:

Just wanted to drop in a comment on the dry hop tube for better bottles I got. I had a 5oz dry hop a batch or so ago so I just threw all the hops into the fermenter without the tube and transferred to the bottling bucket by putting my autosiphon inside the dry hop tube. It worked beautifully, I got a lot more beer out than I normally do and it was very clear. The mesh didn't clog at all. I think I'm going to use the tube in this fashion going forward, that way I can definitely maximize utilization by leaving the hops loose and get the max amount of beer out possible every time.

I guess I shouldn't call it a dry hop tube anymore, haha.

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Oh wow that's an interesting idea.

Question: Has anyone tried doing sort of the reverse of this? What popped into my head looking at the picture and reading the above is a different approach (well, maybe doing this too if dry hopping):

I use an immersion chiller. What I was thinking is to just to just toss the hops into the kettle for the boil. Then, run the wort into the fermenter without worrying if any of the hop/break crap got out of it. But I'd have this little Better Bottle thing in the fermenter, and run the wort through that. Then take it, and hopefully the hops/break, out before pitching the yeast. Idea being to leave that stuff in the tube and clear wort in the kettle.

Thoughts? Am I missing something? Thanks

ResumeMan said:

Oh wow that's an interesting idea.

Question: Has anyone tried doing sort of the reverse of this? What popped into my head looking at the picture and reading the above is a different approach (well, maybe doing this too if dry hopping):

I use an immersion chiller. What I was thinking is to just to just toss the hops into the kettle for the boil. Then, run the wort into the fermenter without worrying if any of the hop/break crap got out of it. But I'd have this little Better Bottle thing in the fermenter, and run the wort through that. Then take it, and hopefully the hops/break, out before pitching the yeast. Idea being to leave that stuff in the tube and clear wort in the kettle.

Thoughts? Am I missing something? Thanks

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That might work, my only concern is that all the break material will clog it up if you run literally all of the wort though it. When it's in the fermenter most of that protein and crap is compacted at the bottom. I haven't tried it so I don't actually know if it would work well... in the fermenter it seems to pull beer through the gunk at the bottom just fine, but for some reason I get the feeling that hot wort leads to more clogging than room temp beer.

Anyone who's done this wanna chime in? I personally let most of the gunk run into the fermenter since I don't use a plate chiller.

I tried it using the 4" x 10" filter. It didn't work well at all due to break material clogging the outside of the filter. I kept running out of wort to draw from inside the filter.

JoesInBoston said:

I tried it using the 4" x 10" filter. It didn't work well at all due to break material clogging the outside of the filter. I kept running out of wort to draw from inside the filter.

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same happened with me when i tried racking through the filter. first half went really well, but as i got lower down the break material clogged the outside of the filter. i had to knock the filter on the side of the kettle to dislodge the gunk. not the best situation since it slowed down my transfer, had me keeping the lid open over cool wort, etc. going to have to re-think this. maybe i'll let the cooled wort sitting longer before racking, so that the break material settles down more, then rack really slowly as to no disturb the settled gunk.

These are the twin 12" x 22" long 300 micron filters that Chad made for me for my 200l boil kettles. I put about 2lbs of hops in there for a 40 gallon batch of Amarillo pale yesterday and they worked great and hosed off even with all the foamy protein gunk and break material on the outside.

bovineblitz said:

That might work, my only concern is that all the break material will clog it up if you run literally all of the wort though it. When it's in the fermenter most of that protein and crap is compacted at the bottom. I haven't tried it so I don't actually know if it would work well... in the fermenter it seems to pull beer through the gunk at the bottom just fine, but for some reason I get the feeling that hot wort leads to more clogging than room temp beer.

Anyone who's done this wanna chime in? I personally let most of the gunk run into the fermenter since I don't use a plate chiller.

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I had Chad make one specifically for a Better Bottle to do exactly what you want to do, strain coming out of the kettle going into the Better Bottle. No luck at all. It clogged immediately from the break material. The diameter of these seem to make a huge difference in how much they clog. One that fits in a Better Bottle has no chance.

It does work really well to put your siphon in when racking to a keg out of the fermenter. Leaves the true behind.

drive45 said:

It does work really well to put your siphon in when racking to a keg out of the fermenter. Leaves the true behind.

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A $3 mesh bag works very well for this as well.

drive45 said:

I had Chad make one specifically for a Better Bottle to do exactly what you want to do, strain coming out of the kettle going into the Better Bottle. No luck at all. It clogged immediately from the break material. The diameter of these seem to make a huge difference in how much they clog. One that fits in a Better Bottle has no chance.

It does work really well to put your siphon in when racking to a keg out of the fermenter. Leaves the true behind.

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Oh well, that's too bad, sounded like an elegant solution. Thanks for the feedback on it before I went and bought one!

ResumeMan, this is basically what I do. I have the 6x14 filter that I only use as a post-chill filter. I throw my hops in the boil free style and after chilling (I recirculate), I run the wort-out line into and through the filter in my boil kettle. Aerates and filters at the same time. Sometimes it will clog, and when it does, I just take the filter out and shake the hop/break material into my compost and drop it back in. Takes 2 mins to filter the whole thing running my march pump at full bore.

pfgonzo said:

ResumeMan, this is basically what I do. I have the 6x14 filter that I only use as a post-chill filter. I throw my hops in the boil free style and after chilling (I recirculate), I run the wort-out line into and through the filter in my boil kettle. Aerates and filters at the same time. Sometimes it will clog, and when it does, I just take the filter out and shake the hop/break material into my compost and drop it back in. Takes 2 mins to filter the whole thing running my march pump at full bore.

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This is an excellent idea, and I have been contemplating the same.

But I have a hard time picturing how you route the wort-out line. You're not using the regular bulkhead on the bottom, I guess.

Is this how you do it?
You chill by recirculating, using a pump with a plate chiller or a counter flow chiller.

Do you send all your hop and break matter through the pump and chiller, unfiltered? Do you use a false bottom in the BK to trap some of that trub? Don't you have any clogging problems in the chiller or pump?

Then when chilled, do you stick the output hose into the hop basket and pump clear wort into your fermentor? Or is the basket in another vessel, your fermentor perhaps?

Thanks for any clarifications.

meltroha said:

A $3 mesh bag works very well for this as well.

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Not as well. The bag tends to clog up and get sucked into the siphon. This is especially true if there's a lot of hop material in your fermenter. With bags you have to mess with them a bunch and move the siphon around. With the SS tube you set it and forget it, just let it run and tilt it at the end.

Source: used the bag and now use a SS tube.

I just used my BB Dry Hop tube from Chad on a third batch. This time I used 2 oz of Mosaic in my Wheat IPA. Simply racked to secondary, sanitized the tube, added the hop pellets, & slowly placed into the BB before attaching the airlock.
Piece of cake!!!

IslandLizard said:

This is an excellent idea, and I have been contemplating the same.

But I have a hard time picturing how you route the wort-out line. You're not using the regular bulkhead on the bottom, I guess.

Is this how you do it?
You chill by recirculating, using a pump with a plate chiller or a counter flow chiller.

Do you send all your hop and break matter through the pump and chiller, unfiltered? Do you use a false bottom in the BK to trap some of that trub? Don't you have any clogging problems in the chiller or pump?

Then when chilled, do you stick the output hose into the hop basket and pump clear wort into your fermentor? Or is the basket in another vessel, your fermentor perhaps?

Thanks for any clarifications.

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I have an immersion chiller, so only water is running through it.

While the water is on, I pump the wort from the bottom of the kettle and back into the kettle from an additional hole at the top to which I attached a loc line arm, via a weldless kit. I use that to whirlpool while I chill and once I'm at temp, I move the loc line arm so it's pumping into my filter. A pic would be easier to understand. Google "loc line brewing" or "mash return tube" and it should show you what I mean. (Im on vacation right now or I'd post a poc of my setup.) Bobby_M sells them, but it's just as easy (and you get more color choices) getting it from the manufacturer.

Quick follow up: found a pic of my setup in the Centenniel Blonde thread.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f66/ce...ain-5-10-gall-42841/index293.html#post5087186

That pic is me using the filter as a boil filter. I've since started using it only post boil as I previously posted.

HefeLibre said:

There is actually a little more clearance. If you look at the ruler/straight edge in one of the pic, the coil is about inch inside from the ruler's outside edge.

Also, the handle on my false bottom is not centered like they appear on More Beer's website. It is toward the edge, and I can orient it in such a way to
keep it from obstructing a hop basket.

My FB came from More Beer but it looks like they altered the design. The "handle" is the same as the feet used to elevate it. So they are about 2 inches in height.

I've never tried using an FB to minimize hot break but need to try it.
Maybe it helps when doing large volumes of wort. Doing 10 gallon batches,
there may be other more practical ways.

Anyone, does it really help or are there other ways to filter the wort effectively keeping it out of the fermenters etc?

Or is an FB used for other purposes in the boil?

It may be more practical for me as well to disregard the FB altogether.

Having a conical, for example, seems to accomodate dropping this problem You could drop out any stuff that has settled after a few hours/days.

But I get minimizing it to begin with helps too.

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HEFE - Did you ever order this filter? I'm emailing Chad now about it; if he's built it for you I'll just ask for a copy.

Nah I didn't get around to it.

Going with the standard 6X14 filter.

HefeLibre said:

Nah I didn't get around to it.

Going with the standard 6X14 filter.

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Will you just put it in the middle of the immersion chiller then?

I have used my hop filter three times so far. Made an IPA, kind of a hop bomb, not only did we use it in the boil which worked great it let a little hop particles through, we also used it as a dry hop vessel. It fit feally well in my 14.7 gal. Conical from Stoudt.
The third time yeasterday brewing a wit. We only had 1 hop addition of 2oz but we had a citrus zest mix of 1 orange and 2 limes with white pepper and crused clove each about 1-1.5 oz. What we did this time was kick the boil up a notch to make it a bit more vigorous and this pushed the matetials in the screen up and down from the boil action.

We then used it as a trub filter in th conical, but need to get chad to build one about 3"deep so it can just sit on the fermenter lip and we can keep the pour moving.
Thanks Chad.

Has anyone tried one of these kettle height hop screens on the VALVE INTAKE of their kettle? In other words put the hops in the kettle instead of in the strainer, and have the strainer on valve, kind of a giant kettle screen.

Great thread...

Demus said:

Has anyone tried one of these kettle height hop screens on the VALVE INTAKE of their kettle? In other words put the hops in the kettle instead of in the strainer, and have the strainer on valve, kind of a giant kettle screen.

Great thread...

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You mean using it as a large filter inside the BK? That's what a few of us have been talking about already.

There are some problems how to connect the BK's bulkhead tube to the basket.

Poke a hole in the basket and slide it over the bulkhead stem or pickup tube before you fill the kettle?