Closed-system pressurized fermentation technique!

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What do you guys think about pressure fermentations? Time for a poll.

  • I've done it and I liked it just fine!

  • I've done it, nothing wrong with it, but prefer normal fermentation techniques.

  • I've done it, hate it, and never will do it again!

  • I've never done it, but it is on my list!

  • I've never done anything. I only brew beer in my mind.


Results are only viewable after voting.
Did you purge the co2 in the head space? Also 5 gallons is a lot to chill. It might not be at 35 yet in 40 hours.

It's actually 4 gal in a 5 gal corny. I didn't purge anything. I took the keg with the valve attached that had been fermenting @ 70 deg F & 34 PSI and put it in the keezer. I didn't raise the pressure to 34PSI until I was 4 points from FG. Up until that point, it was set for 5 PSI. I was under the assumption that the pressure should drop to ~ 10-14 PSI once it chilled, you might be right, it may not be at temp but it should most certainly should be by tonight. I've got the temp sensor taped to the keg and insulated with bubble wrap.

I'm guessing at this point I'm going to have to drop the spunding valve pressure and let it set so that it out gasses over a period of time.
 
Sure, though it is not attached right now. Perhaps you can get the idea of what I mean from the image though. (You can ignore all the other junk in there, too)

The corny gas out post should be attached to the left barb on the water filter housing. From there, the right barb of the filter housing then goes on to your spunding valve. This gives me about a liter of space for blowoff before fluid starts traveling into your spunding assembly. In six or seven batches, I've never needed more than a couple of ounces.

image-3307100413.jpg
 
Mine is very similar:
7364-fermentation-chamber.jpg
7362-pressurized-air-lock.jpg

I am using a 3/4" PVC and a few ounces of sterilized water in this picture to act as an airlock for my blow off setup. This way I can use it with or without the spunding valve.
I got the clear water filter housing off of ebay for less that $20 with 1/4" treads and pressure relief valve.
 
Are you guys running the line backwards through the filter? What keeps the beer from moving into the valve?
 
Mine is indeed running backwards.
CO2 is running down the PVC on mine and trapped by the water; bubbles exhaust out of the spunding valve.
Only gas and a little moisture will end up in my spunding valve.

The only issue I have had with this is I made a mistake of cold crashing the keg while attached. The pressure in the keg dropped faster than the pressure in the filter housing and the gunk in the filter was sucked into the keg. Lesson learned...
 
Are you guys running the line backwards through the filter? What keeps the beer from moving into the valve?

To be honest, I'm not even sure which is supposed to be the in-port and which is supposed to be the out-port. For these purposes, it doesn't really make a difference. I don't actually have a filter in there...the enclosure is just acting as a water trap. There's no tube in mine, either, so there's no chance of suck back.

If the filter enclosure filled up, it would start letting beer into the valve. But, even with big beers, big starters, and warm ferments, I've never even come close.
 
Cool, I think I will look at getting one of those. I'm on day four from pitching and the liquid is still pumping away up the tube about 2 feet. My house was sitting at about 75+ the last 3 days as well. I noticed that the relief valve on the keg is higher than the in post tube so gas comes out when I release it. So I am thinking of taking the gas post plastic tube out next time. Anyone recommend that and will it still seal?
 
I don't see the need to run a ferment at ambient pressure initially. I set my spunding valve to 7psi as soon as I pitch the yeast and it will be at pressure in under 24hrs. The early stages of fermentation is when you get a lot of ester production, so if you're wanting to control this then it certainly seems like you'd want pressure right away.

That said, I did a hefeweizen under pressure with WLP300 and it had the usual levels of banana and clove.
 
Another neat thing about using the filter as a water trap is that you can easily top crop yeast with it as long as you sanitize properly before use. I have done this a few times; use a few less drops of fermcap and collect a little yeast rich blowoff in sterilized water to store for later use.
 
I don't see the need to run a ferment at ambient pressure initially. I set my spunding valve to 7psi as soon as I pitch the yeast and it will be at pressure in under 24hrs. The early stages of fermentation is when you get a lot of ester production, so if you're wanting to control this then it certainly seems like you'd want pressure right away.

I don't see the need either. I've actually been pumping canned oxygen into the liquid tube of my corny, up to about 5psi. I set my spunding valve there and let the thing ride there until just before the very end.

5psi of pressure is about what you get in 3 meters of liquid. In many respects, this whole thing simulates a commercial-sized fermentor. I've been bumping up the temperatures on my estery beers a bit to compensate and so far have been happy with the results.
 
I don't see the need either. I've actually been pumping canned oxygen into the liquid tube of my corny, up to about 5psi. I set my spunding valve there and let the thing ride there until just before the very end.

Hey, that sounds like an awesome idea - QD on the end of the O2 tank, crank to 5 psi, and then shake like hell.
 
Yes, a commercial fermentor exerts its pressure right off the bat so why shouldn't we.

Shaking a 15gal batch in a Brewhemoth conical is a dicey proposition. Even swirling it is scary because once the liquid is moving it puts some funky stress on the tripod legs. I have pumped a little O2 into the fermentor before, sounds like this isn't effective without the agitation. I suppose I'll go back to oxygenation with a stone prior to filling the fermentor.
 
I'm jealous of that brewhemoth. I have a friend who offered to do some welding, may have him attempt a yuri conical with a sanke keg.
 
Ive done two batches with this technique. Both with sufficient amount of S-05.The first batch (1.042 OG) finished in 6 days @ 68F. My second batch (1.065 OG) has been in primary for 7 days, I'm about 50% of the way to FG. I have this batch at 64F (my standard ferm temp for S-05 prior to using this technoque) and it's at 15psi now. I went 2 days no pressure, 3 days 5psi, and 2 days 15psi. I should have taken a gravity reading before ramping up pressure but didn't have time with work. What have you guys found to be typical fermentation schedule with S-05 or similar yeast? I'm pretty sure I could have fermented higher and not had any off flavors.

The beer (see quote above) I have fermenting now appears to have some fusel alcohol flavors in the hydro sample. I ramped temp to 70F when gravity was at 1.030 after a week from pitching; thinking it was lagging a bit; also temps started creeping to 20 psi during this time (I'm sure its due to temp increase). It's now down to 1.020 and still producing co2 so It's not done fermenting. I know 70F (thermowell into center of fermenter) isn't too high for s-05. I pitched 2 packs that I woke up a bit in some wort a few hours prior to pitching. Last night I gradually dropped the temp to 64F and pressure to 12 psi. Anyone have any insight or help?
 
Can someone please give me a heads up on chilling and transferring for the first time in a keg with a regular length tube?
Should I use gelatin?
How much should I pour off after chilling before transferring to avoid a lot of trub? I took a gravity and a few taste tests already.
 
Can someone please give me a heads up on chilling and transferring for the first time in a keg with a regular length tube?
Should I use gelatin?
How much should I pour off after chilling before transferring to avoid a lot of trub? I took a gravity and a few taste tests already.

The way I did mine, right or wrong was to cold crash for a couple of days. Bled the pressure down to 5 PSI. Pulled about 2 pints or so to clear the trub. Purged the serving keg with CO2, left it at around 5 PSI then put the spunding valve on the empty keg and cranked it up. Took a 5' hose with two liquid taps and connected the two kegs. Attached the gas to the ferm keg and dialed it up to 5 PSI. Then I slowly lowered the spunding valve setting on the serving keg until the beer began to flow. It probably took 15 minutes or so, I watched the condensation on the keg and when it got close to full, I stood by with my hand on the liquid tap and pulled it the second I saw that it was at empty.
 
The way I did mine, right or wrong was to cold crash for a couple of days. Bled the pressure down to 5 PSI. Pulled about 2 pints or so to clear the trub. Purged the serving keg with CO2, left it at around 5 PSI then put the spunding valve on the empty keg and cranked it up. Took a 5' hose with two liquid taps and connected the two kegs. Attached the gas to the ferm keg and dialed it up to 5 PSI. Then I slowly lowered the spunding valve setting on the serving keg until the beer began to flow. It probably took 15 minutes or so, I watched the condensation on the keg and when it got close to full, I stood by with my hand on the liquid tap and pulled it the second I saw that it was at empty.

Thanks I was planning to purge and then test the keg pressure at 48 hours chilled and if at 12 psi (I have a strange feeling it's more...:drunk:) then adjust the receiving keg to the same and do the transfer purge really slow to not foam up...So I think I get that part, but I am just wondering if that huge lump of trub is just going to sit there perfectly for me undisturbed during the whole exchange. And Yeah I'll pour off I mean drink 3 beers first if I must. :eek:
 
You're definately going to need to pour off some yeasty pints. That first one won't be tasty though...
 
As if this batch can't get any more Fed up. :mad: The 1.073 (dead guy ale clone) that I have blowing liquid 2 ft through my spunding tubing still after 5 days is plugged up at the dip tube. I can't get it to pour a sample. I wonder if 30 psi will fix this when I ramp up?
 
If it doesn't then you'll have to bleed the pressure slowly and crack the thing open to transfer by conventional means. Sorry to hear about your hardships. What is the yeast? Some of them really kick out the krausen. Did you bring the pressure up right away? Pressure is supposed to reduce the foaming to some extent.
 
The beer (see quote above) I have fermenting now appears to have some fusel alcohol flavors in the hydro sample. I ramped temp to 70F when gravity was at 1.030 after a week from pitching; thinking it was lagging a bit; also temps started creeping to 20 psi during this time (I'm sure its due to temp increase). It's now down to 1.020 and still producing co2 so It's not done fermenting. I know 70F (thermowell into center of fermenter) isn't too high for s-05. I pitched 2 packs that I woke up a bit in some wort a few hours prior to pitching. Last night I gradually dropped the temp to 64F and pressure to 12 psi. Anyone have any insight or help?

Fusels come from a too-warm ferment. I haven't seen fusels simply as a result of pressurized fermentations. I would have though you could ferment a little warmer under pressure but it may be that the fusels will start at a certain temp regardless. Boy do I hate fuselly beer, sorry to hear you're finding them.

My own low-tech cooling proceudre for the Brewhemoth is to put a box fan blowing on it from a few feet away. It does seem to carry off some of the heat and keep the fermentor closer to the ambient temp of my fairly cool basement. I have the chilling coil and tried a cheap recirc setup but it didn't seem to have much effect, the fan keeps my wort at around 67F which is OK for the Chico and British ale strains I've used so far.
 
It fermented at 64F until 50% of the way to FG, then ramped to 70F. I'm hoping im tasting something else and not fusel.
 
Hopefully its just a little acetaldehyde or diacetyl, something that will clean up at the end of the ferment. Your temps seem OK, depends of course on where you're measuring them and if the thermometer is right. Depends on the yeast and pitching rate as well I suppose. With an under-pitch you can get a pretty estery beer, or if the wort wasn't cooled to pitching temps. But you know all that.
 
If it doesn't then you'll have to bleed the pressure slowly and crack the thing open to transfer by conventional means. Sorry to hear about your hardships. What is the yeast? Some of them really kick out the krausen. Did you bring the pressure up right away? Pressure is supposed to reduce the foaming to some extent.

Yeast is WLP 001. I started with a 1L starter and decanted it. Then I added cooled wort to make another 1L and set it on the stir plate again over night for about 9 hours before pitching the whole thing when I woke up.

I started at 0-2 psi and after it started a hissing I ramped to 5 that same evening. I think I ramped to up again the next morning because of the blow off bubbles that I was seeing. That evening it started going nuts. So I ramped it to 10 and then it was pushing up to the valve and I ramped it to 15 to control it. After it got controlled I knocked it back to 10. It now sits at ~10 on the 6th day from pitching. It's basically been at 10 to 16 psi off and on for pretty much every day but the first day. I think stuff got in the valve because it is acting really weird.

My temps were very high unfortunately due to a heat wave. I have the AC kicking on at 75. The steel on the keg measures 65 but the top of the lid was pushing 80 each afternoon this week. God I hope this batch is halfway decent!
 
I have now decided to cut my fermenting keg diptubes 1" based on the events described below. I'm gonna try the copper tubing cutter.

Well my 1.073 mellowed out and the liquid dropped out of the spunding line yesterday a week after brewing. Then I purged, disconnected the out line and pulled the diptube to unplug it. When I was done rinsing and star saning it, I came back to find a volcano erupting!:eek: Good thing I had the keg in a trash can with water. Then I tried the picnic valve again and plugged up again. :(

My 1.050 seemed perfect to the point of transfer. I transferred it while sitting in the keezer and then after inspecting the empty sending keg, I realized that there wasn't enough trub in there. And sure enough when I poured a glass today, it was full of junk.
 
I bottled the IPA off the keg a week ago using the BierMuncher method. Opened a couple bottles last night and it's carbed up perfectly. Going to continue to use this technique, it beats messing with priming sugar for the stuff I want to bottle. A 10' liquid line takes care of any foaming when serving from the keg.
 
Question for those who start with an airlock and then pressure up. I'm doing about 14.75gallon in a sanke and I'm about two days into primary with a good burp going on budjevic lager yeast. I'm not sure how long I should keep it on the airlock until I switch over to my sounding valve. I'm fermenting at 53 degrees and not really sure when or how long high krausen will be. Any thoughts?
 
Question for those who start with an airlock and then pressure up. I'm doing about 14.75gallon in a sanke and I'm about two days into primary with a good burp going on budjevic lager yeast. I'm not sure how long I should keep it on the airlock until I switch over to my sounding valve. I'm fermenting at 53 degrees and not really sure when or how long high krausen will be. Any thoughts?


I was told when you get to within 5 points of your FG, crank it up, set it according to the carbonation chart elsewhere in this thread. I set mine at 5 PSI from the beginning and checked the gravity after 3 days.
 
Anyone know where I can get some sanke ring removal knives?

SankeKnives.jpg


Morebeer adds to the cart, but comes up with $0 price. St. Pats brewing has them, for $35 for a 3 pack. Can't seem to find them anywhere else for reasonable price. Is homebrewing.com the same as morebeer?

cheers.
 
I agree with Wort. I bought some of those knives from chicompany.net I think. I've never used them. They seem flimsy to me but maybe I don't know how to use them.

The cheap little screwdriver works great.
 
Holy cow, what a thread. I don't know what I've been reading for the past 3 hours, but I'm glad I did, lol. I have a simple question that was probably answered a million times, in the early stages of fermenting you have a blowoff tube prior to putting on a spunding valve.

So my question, how is this done without contaminating the process? The CO2 is being released quickly so no danger there, but I'm still confused exactly as to functionally this process is done.

Thanks.

John
 
cosmatics said:
Holy cow, what a thread. I don't know what I've been reading for the past 3 hours, but I'm glad I did, lol. I have a simple question that was probably answered a million times, in the early stages of fermenting you have a blowoff tube prior to putting on a spunding valve.

So my question, how is this done without contaminating the process? The CO2 is being released quickly so no danger there, but I'm still confused exactly as to functionally this process is done.

Thanks.

John

This is how I pressure ferment. I connect a blow off tube to my setup without the spunding valve for the first 48 hours. Just a tube into a bucket of Sanitizer just like you're fermenting in a carboy. Then remove the tube attach the spunding valve and gradually ramp up the pressure.

It works great for me.

The reason I do it this way is I ferment 15 gallons in a Sankey. When I've tried the spunding earlier in the process it gets plugged with hop particulate from the krausen and the pressure skyrockets. It's a pain to keep removing the valve and cleaning it. So I've gone to this hybrid technique and it seems to work well.

Let us know how you do.
 
Holy cow, what a thread. I don't know what I've been reading for the past 3 hours, but I'm glad I did, lol. I have a simple question that was probably answered a million times, in the early stages of fermenting you have a blowoff tube prior to putting on a spunding valve.

So my question, how is this done without contaminating the process? The CO2 is being released quickly so no danger there, but I'm still confused exactly as to functionally this process is done.

Thanks.

John

Others use a water-filter housing to act as a water trap. I start my fermentations at 5psi and stay there until the very end.
 
Well for starters some use a blow off others don't (I'm in the latter camp). That being said; I have done it with an airlock in the past. I have my pressure gauge attached with a quick disconnect. If I want; I simply attach an airlock to the disconnect with a short length of hose for a few days them swap it out for the pressure gauge. The co2 is heavier than air so it acts as a buffers and won't let contaminated in via air.
 
Others use a water-filter housing to act as a water trap. I start my fermentations at 5psi and stay there until the very end.

I generally ferment 11-12 gallons in a sanke. With this much head space I've never really had the need for a blow off. I set mine to 7psi and let her roll. The pressure also keeps krausen down.
 
I just finished a 15 gallon ferment in a sanke and I went the airlock route for the first three days then installed my pressure rig. It was a pilsner in budvar yeast and it was a violent fermentation. Finished product came out great and is currently in the kegerator.
 
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