Arghhhh! 10 gallons of "band-aid" beer!

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Yooper

Ale's What Cures You!
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It happened- I got my first infection in a 10 gallon batch. It must have been in the yeast or in the system after boil, because both fermenters are filled with phenolic beer. I had a nice jar of harvested WLP001, and enough for both fermenters. I think from now on, I"ll use different yeast in different fermenters "just in case".

It breaks my heart to dump 10 gallons of hopbursted APA- what a waste of time and hops!

And the worst part? I'm just about out of beer, since I haven't had much time to brew lately. I went from having three beers on tap to just the tail end of one keg. I might have to buy commercial beer to get me through this difficult time.

I'm thinking that it's really got to be the harvested yeast- but I'm going to go double check all of my "cold side" stuff before brewing again on Thursday. I'm so mad!!!!!!!
 
What is phenolic beer? Im kind of new to this and i would like to know what to look for just in case i got the same issue...
 
What is phenolic beer? Im kind of new to this and i would like to know what to look for just in case i got the same issue...

Just remember band-aid. You'll know it when it happens, don't worry.

I'm really careful with saved yeast now. It's one of the reasons (besides basic nerdiness) why I got my microscope and look at the cells. I've had some batches that turned and I think it was the scavenged yeast.
 
Just remember band-aid. You'll know it when it happens, don't worry.

I'm really careful with saved yeast now. It's one of the reasons (besides basic nerdiness) why I got my microscope and look at the cells. I've had some batches that turned and I think it was the scavenged yeast.

I was trying to save a few bucks and go one more generation. The starter and spent wort seemed just fine.

Trying to save $16 in yeast (two 5 gallon batches) cost me way more- in fact, that was just about the end of my amarillo hops.

I didn't dump it, but it's in the kegerator and if anything it's worse and not better.
 
What is phenolic beer? Im kind of new to this and i would like to know what to look for just in case i got the same issue...

Like passedpawn said, "band-aid". This batch isn't chlorophenols (no chlorine in the water) but it's definitely phenolic.

It's like bad cloves flavor, with a band-aid undertone.
 
I'll bet it was the harvested yeast, too. Sorry to hear it!

I judged my first homebrew competition in July and tasted a bunch of infected brews. Too many, in my opinion! I've been wondering what caused all those infected beers. Whether it was from bad harvested yeast, dirty bottles or something else.
 
I'll bet it was the harvested yeast, too. Sorry to hear it!

I judged my first homebrew competition in July and tasted a bunch of infected brews. Too many, in my opinion! I've been wondering what caused all those infected beers. Whether it was from bad harvested yeast, dirty bottles or something else.

A lot of times, phenols can come from stressed yeast (high temperatures, especially and/or underpitching) or from chlorine/chloramines in the brewing water. It's hard to know if it's a bacterial infection or simply a poorly made beer when judging.

In this case, it could be a poorly made beer except that I used RO water from my own RO water system and used the proper amount of WLP001 and controlled the temperature. Since both fermenters are equally bad, it narrows it down to the cold side on the entire brewing system (pump or CFC) and not individual fermenters, or the yeast. Since I recirculate boiling wort for at least 15 minutes, I have to believe it's the harvested yeast.

It's bad beer. Bad. I've tasted much worse in the past (often in competitions!) but it's nothing I want to drink and certainly not 10 gallons of it!
 
Yeah, that's the only infection I've ever had and it was nearly undrinkable. Sorry for your loss!
 
That's a bummer. I got chlorophenols in a rauchbier once before I added a carbon filter to my equipment list. I tried letting mine age for over a year and it was still very detectable, so unfortunately in my experience it doesn't seem to age out.
 
ugh, so sorry Yooper. and just after I use my first batch of re-washed yeast :(. making me nervous now lol. I usually soak them in oxy clean rinse then soak in starsan over night then fill with tap water and pour in the fermenter. now I'm paranoid about not boiling the water... ai yai yai, we'll see how this saison turns out in a few weeks.
 
So how many generations did you use this yeast? How do you save/store it?

I have never reused yeast before, but I was thinking about attempting reuse of my SanDiego Super yeast. I currently have a canning jar of slurry in the fridge. However, this post scares me.
 
That's to bad Yooper and I'm sorry for your loss. To many of us newer brewers I suppose it might be in some way comforting to hear that even an experienced brewer has an off batch once in a while. But I'm not roasting and your post does not make me smile. Better luck next time, I'm sure your next beer will come out just fine. (Hey! I went a whole post without a rhyme. I think...Thank G)
 
I'm sorry you lost that much beer, but, on the brighter side, I think this can be a learning experience for some of us newer brewers. Is that an infection that would have been noticeable in the starter? I have a brown ale in primary that I used third gen yeast in. I was already nervous when I made the starter because of the number of uses behind it, so I checked the starter by small taste and by smell before I pitched. Is that infection only noticeable by taste in the final product or will there be evidence on the surface of the beer or the smell of the beer? Once again, I'm sorry for the loss, but I think I learned to be more careful with my washed yeast in the future from this thread.
 
So how many generations did you use this yeast? How do you save/store it?

I have never reused yeast before, but I was thinking about attempting reuse of my SanDiego Super yeast. I currently have a canning jar of slurry in the fridge. However, this post scares me.

Oh, I've done it MANY times before without any problems- so don't worry! This time it didn't work out, but I bet I've reused yeast 50 times before without any problems- so the odds are still in your favor!

I'm sorry you lost that much beer, but, on the brighter side, I think this can be a learning experience for some of us newer brewers. Is that an infection that would have been noticeable in the starter? I have a brown ale in primary that I used third gen yeast in. I was already nervous when I made the starter because of the number of uses behind it, so I checked the starter by small taste and by smell before I pitched. Is that infection only noticeable by taste in the final product or will there be evidence on the surface of the beer or the smell of the beer? Once again, I'm sorry for the loss, but I think I learned to be more careful with my washed yeast in the future from this thread.

This wasn't noticeable at all in the starter/spent wort or slurry. Fermentation started within 24 hours and all seemed normal. Until I opened the fermenter to package the beer, it seemed fine. But then- uggggh. The aroma first, and then I tasted my hydrometer sample.

We're going to be out of homebrew by tomorrow! That's the worst part. :mad:
 
We're going to be out of homebrew by tomorrow! That's the worst part. :mad:

I hate that feeling. I've got 15 gallons (of 3 different brews) ready to fridge this weekend...but until then, i'm looking at an empty fridge holding a bunch of yeast harvests.

(the lagtime of emptiness also came from my first infection)
 
I've had terrible luck with harvested yeast, so I have quit using it. I know it's my process of harvesting, but I just don't feel like taking the time to figure out where the issue is. I've switched to using dry yeast and have been really pleased with the results and the ease of use. I hadn't used dry yeast since my first couple of beers until a few months ago.
 
hey yooper

long no hear huh? don't forget to check the hot side as well. i feel your pain on this as i've been there before. i'm hoping to get back to brewing here soon( dear lord i just checked and it's been more than 18 months since my last brew day :( )
 
I just finished a similarly effed beer (drank the whole damn keg)... an ESB using WLP002 harvested in November. It got better with time, but man...
 
. . . don't forget to check the hot side as well.
I lost two batches to what I perceived as a Band-Aid / phenolic disaster. The first time, I posted a thread thinking that it was a scorching problem, but no one else thought that could be the cause. In that case I didn't realize there was a problem until after fermentation was complete. Well, it happened again. The second time I knew what to look for and definitely noticed a faint similar odor in the wort before fermentation started. Two dumped eight gallon batches over a few month period. Very disappointing and it put a hurt on my pipeline also.

Only a fool like me puts a heating element directly in the MLT. I love experimenting with my system almost as much as I like what it produces, but this was bad. Pretty sure all the bugs are worked out now. Two new batches through with no problems.

Nothing said can help with that terrible feeling when you’re watching all that work and ingredients going down the drain. Knowing that the reward of great beer lies ahead is the only consolation.

:(:(:(




edit to say:
Looking at your avatar . . . sure you can't fix this with duct tape? :cross:
 
If this can happen to you it just destroys all my confidence. I quit. I will never brew again. Nah. Sorry to hear the bad news. I will have a moment of silence and a homebrew when I get home.
 
I thought about this more last night and very happy that Yooper shared in her failure - as we all know of her successes. It's a great lesson to all of us to never let our guard down in the defense of great beer and an indicator that just because you have a bad batch doesn't make you a bad brewer.

Experienced brewers and beginners both should get something out of this.
 
That's to bad Yooper and I'm sorry for your loss. To many of us newer brewers I suppose it might be in some way comforting to hear that even an experienced brewer has an off batch once in a while. But I'm not roasting and your post does not make me smile. Better luck next time, I'm sure your next beer will come out just fine. (Hey! I went a whole post without a rhyme. I think...Thank G)

:D :D :D

Haha had to point those out...

Sorry Yooper. I read a lot of your advice on here and always enjoy what you have to say. Sorry for your loss. Maybe I can send some beer in an envelope? Or have fax machines advanced enough to fax liquid yet?
 
You should "recover the alcohol" at a minimum. Ask around. Someone always knows someone that knows someone that can help you out with that.
 
Like passedpawn said, "band-aid". This batch isn't chlorophenols (no chlorine in the water) but it's definitely phenolic.

It's like bad cloves flavor, with a band-aid undertone.

I've had a few. The only common denominator was they were always lighter beers with lengthier primary times (3+ weeks cuz I was lazy).

Always fresh dry yeast.
Always 65-68 pitching temps.
Always tasted fine at the one week stage, then that slight clove aroma would start building around week 2 1/2.
I would keg and chill anyway, but to no avail. The flavor and aroma just got worse with time.

Now I let my gravity tell me when to get the beer off that yeast. Terminal gravity plus 4-5 days, then into the kegs.

No issues since then.
 
I'm about to make you feel better about dumping a 10 gallon batch. I brewed 15 gallons of your 60 minute clone this past Saturday. Brew day was spot on, hit all my numbers. Had a bit of an issue chilling, so I placed it in my ferm chamber and let it cool to pitching temps. Used washed WLP001 but didn't have time to make a starter. Figured I had more than enough to innoculate 15 gallons. Well 24 hours later, nothing. 48 hours later, nothing. 72 hours later, nothing. Had my fiance run to the store to grab some dry yeast. Pitched and it started fermenting by the next morning. I did that in the 10 gallon fermenter, didn't pitch into the 5 gallon. (was after bottling a lot of wine..) That one suddenly was fermenting the next morning. The basement reeks like sour beer. Never really was able to smell the fermentation. So... I have a feeling some wild yeast took hold of both fermenters.. So, moral of the story, ALWAYS make a starter.

Yoop, hope this makes you feel a bit better.. :-(
 
hey yooper

long no hear huh? Don't forget to check the hot side as well. I feel your pain on this as i've been there before. I'm hoping to get back to brewing here soon( dear lord i just checked and it's been more than 18 months since my last brew day :( )

erik!!

i lost two batches to what i perceived as a band-aid / phenolic disaster. The first time, i posted a thread thinking that it was a scorching problem, but no one else thought that could be the cause. In that case i didn't realize there was a problem until after fermentation was complete. Well, it happened again. The second time i knew what to look for and definitely noticed a faint similar odor in the wort before fermentation started. Two dumped eight gallon batches over a few month period. Very disappointing and it put a hurt on my pipeline also.

Only a fool like me puts a heating element directly in the mlt. I love experimenting with my system almost as much as i like what it produces, but this was bad. Pretty sure all the bugs are worked out now. Two new batches through with no problems.

Nothing said can help with that terrible feeling when you’re watching all that work and ingredients going down the drain. Knowing that the reward of great beer lies ahead is the only consolation.

:(:(:(




edit to say:
Looking at your avatar . . . Sure you can't fix this with duct tape? :cross:

you should "recover the alcohol" at a minimum. Ask around. Someone always knows someone that knows someone that can help you out with that.

... Maybe you brought an infection home from that meadery.
 
hey yooper

long no hear huh? don't forget to check the hot side as well. i feel your pain on this as i've been there before. i'm hoping to get back to brewing here soon( dear lord i just checked and it's been more than 18 months since my last brew day :( )

ERIK!! It's been ages. My beer tastes like that terrible one you shared with me about 5 years ago. I think we followed the same recipe.........:D

Looking at your avatar . . . sure you can't fix this with duct tape? :cross:

I would try, but trust me the duct tape would taste better.

You should "recover the alcohol" at a minimum. Ask around. Someone always knows someone that knows someone that can help you out with that.

Ha- good idea. Maybe I"ll hang onto the kegs a bit until I find somebody who may be able to use them.

... maybe you brought an infection home from that meadery.

That's pretty much what it tastes like!
 
I actually had a beer that tasted the same way. So I just added about 2 oz/5gal and the next day it tasted delicious! Don't give up on it
 
I actually had a beer that tasted the same way. So I just added about 2 oz/5gal and the next day it tasted delicious! Don't give up on it

2 OZ of what?


Yooper, sorry for your loss. I'm just about to take my new 15.5 gal Kettle and Sanke Keg Fermenter for a spin and I read this...shiver.

Keyth
 
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