"No Chill" Containers

IamTheBear said:

just used the 7 gallon aquatainer think i'm switch to a 5 gallon something. derformed plastic doesn't wanna reform.

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Fill it with very warm water minus the cap, let it sit and it will snap back into shape.

An alternative, if it's still sunny at your location, fill it with water, omit the cap and let it sit in the sun.

or....put a couple of gallons of very hot water in it, screw the cap on, and swirl it around so that the water warms up the deformed area. The pressure will also build up as you do this and pop the dent out, after a minute of swishing just pop the cap back off and dump it out.

In your experience, how long do No Chill Containers last?

Forever?

Or are there things that gradually degrade?
Such as no longer maintaining their shape?

gonna go with some boiled water to soften it back up into shape. Another note on that is i might recomend some high temp teflon tape for the spout. mine leaked some while i was work.

So I had tried my first no-chill brew yesterday by leaving it overnight in the brew kettle and now I'm waiting for my tubing to be sanitized for the transfer to the carboy. I started to think about the next time and using one of the round Winpaks from US Plastic but here is my dilemma, I only brew 2.5 gallon batches. Not enough to fill a 5 gallon Winpak. So this is what I was thinking. Could I transfer the 2.5 gallons of hot wort into a cleaned and sanitized 5 gallon Winpak then seal it up. Now move the Winpak around so the hot wort touches all of the insides and then let cool until the next day. I would add the yeast to the Winpak once the wort has cooled to pitching temps. I don't see how this wouldn't work. Would I even need to have the hot wort touch all of the insides Winpak since the container was cleaned and sanitized before? Hope this makes sense.

BigRock947 said:

So I had tried my first no-chill brew yesterday by leaving it overnight in the brew kettle and now I'm waiting for my tubing to be sanitized for the transfer to the carboy. I started to think about the next time and using one of the round Winpaks from US Plastic but here is my dilemma, I only brew 2.5 gallon batches. Not enough to fill a 5 gallon Winpak. So this is what I was thinking. Could I transfer the 2.5 gallons of hot wort into a cleaned and sanitized 5 gallon Winpak then seal it up. Now move the Winpak around so the hot wort touches all of the insides and then let cool until the next day. I would add the yeast to the Winpak once the wort has cooled to pitching temps. I don't see how this wouldn't work. Would I even need to have the hot wort touch all of the insides Winpak since the container was cleaned and sanitized before? Hope this makes sense.

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The Aussies are using these for smaller batches, perhaps US Plastics has an equivilant here in the States?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-10L-10-LITRE-PLASTIC-WATER-DRUM-CONTAINER-JERRY-CAN-JAR-BOTTLE-NEW-2-GALLON-/221120343286?pt=UK_Home_Garden_GardenEquipment_HandTools_SM&hash=item337bccacf6

Us plastics does carry some smaller 2.5 gallon cube style containers. With that in mind I would try to get 2 and do 2 batches a brew session. And just save one til the other is done fermenting.

After thughs' response, I did look around for 10L and 2.5 gallon containers and I saw that is a lot of them out there. I may stick to using my brew kettle for a few more batches but the potential...OMG! The thought of having wort ready for pitching on my schedule just blows my mind!

BigRock947 said:

.....The thought of having wort ready for pitching on my schedule just blows my mind!

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Yes, it is very nice! I have an ESB fermenting and 5 gallons of Robust Porter and 5 gallons of Pale Ale cubed and waiting until I get around to pitching some yeast. In the mean time I'll probably brew and cube a few more batches of something. It's kind of cool having a "second" pipeline going of wort ready to ferment as needed. (perfect for guys like me that enjoy the brewing process but can't possibly drink it as fast as I am brewing it)

would one recommend the 6 or 5 Gallon winpak.

IamTheBear said:

would one recommend the 6 or 5 Gallon winpak.

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For a 5 gallon batch, use a 6 gallon Winpak if you plan to ferment in the Winpak. Otherwise use the 5 gallon.

Note; the rectangular ones with the secondary small hole aren't good for no-chill. When the wort cools the pressure will suck in the little paper gasket in the little cap.

BigRock947 said:

After thughs' response, I did look around for 10L and 2.5 gallon containers and I saw that is a lot of them out there. I may stick to using my brew kettle for a few more batches but the potential...OMG! The thought of having wort ready for pitching on my schedule just blows my mind!

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I've used three types of 2.5 containers from US Plastics. IMO, the Square Carboy is best. http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=25627&catid=816&clickid=searchresults

It costs a bit more than the others, but it's the most durable and the position of the cap makes draining it easy.

Just wondering which one would be the better choice. the main no chill thread lists one and the other one is posted right above. Looking to order tomorrow.

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?sku=74093&catid=816

or

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?sku=75051&catid=459

A couple years back when I started no-chill I bought one of each of those. Since then I've bought 9 more of the square carboys and zero of the other ones. IMO, the square one is much better. It's heavier, the opening is in the corner thus allowing you to pour out all the contents. The first one, the natural 2.5 gallon feels cheap. The way the spout is configured makes it hard to get all of the liquid out. There are a few other minor complaints.

chucke said:

A couple years back when I started no-chill I bought one of each of those. Since then I've bought 9 more of the square carboys and zero of the other ones. IMO, the square one is much better. It's heavier, the opening is in the corner thus allowing you to pour out all the contents. The first one, the natural 2.5 gallon feels cheap. The way the spout is configured makes it hard to get all of the liquid out. There are a few other minor complaints.

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Thank you. Thats what I was looking for.

I've read elsewhere in these forums where guys who hate to clean buckets line them with turkey oven bags then toss the trub/bags. I was wondering if you could use them to chill wort.

Advantages would be:
1) use any old bucket...lids optional
2) when the wort cools the bag would contract but not the bucket
3) squeeze the air out before twist tie...so no oxygen
4) open bag, pull top over bucket rim, aerate, pitch, attach nice clean lid, ferment in bag (fwiw, I'm quite certain the bag is sanitary from the store but the hot wort would do it again...or you could wait and do some flame out hopping in kettle before filling the bag.)
5) throw away trub in the bag and skip messy clean up and smelly buckets (although, frankly, I love the hop smell in my buckets)

Disadvantages:
1) Cost about $1.25@ (reuse if not used to ferment???)
2) I tested with cold water and they only hold about 4 gallons in oder to have enough bag left over to gather and twist tie.
3) nick the bag and you have a real mess inside the bucket.

I like the "pro's"...plus I'd probably rack to a carboy, aerate and pitch...does anyone know of some other liner that's cheap, can handle the heat and is bigger than the standard grocery store Reynolds turkey bag???

BTW, I just racked my first no-chill (brown ale) today for a 4-day stay in a carboy with a little willamette dry hop. Looked crystal clear, smelled great and tasted good...I almost was tempted to skip the dry hop and just bottle...

I was literally just about to buy a slow chill / no chill container... But then I got to thinking : which is better a 7 gal win pack or a 6 gal brewing bucket? Win pack has a nice spigot which is convenient, but a spigot less bucket is completely sealed. And a bucket is easy to clean, too.
So which is better- all other things equal?

Maybe I'm just way overthinking this - perhaps I could just use my bottling bucket/fermentor? The only problem I see with that is that it could suck in air through the hole in the lid. In which case, I could attach my airlock and fill it with some vodka so that the air would get sterilized as it gets sucked in.

Or maybe one of these things? http://www.rei.com/product/708992/reliance-fold-a-carrier-water-carrier-5-gal
Reviews don't seem to good though.

This was what I was going to get initially, before I became filled with self-doubt . http://www.rei.com/product/618168/reliance-aqua-tainer-7-gal
It just seems so difficult to clean ...

thanks

I have two of these 'Fort-Pak' cubes, item #75001 from usplastics.

There is also a 'lightweight' version, #75004.

I have two spare 63 mm caps, #900507.

I now have two of these for very very small brew days, #71153.



6/29/2013 by Mad Scientist Brewhaus, on Flickr

Thanks madscientist those look great, but I worry about cleaning them. Do you find it challenging to clean them thoroughly ? Ideally, I don't want to buy anything else if I don't have to. I'm just trying to avoid the time sink that is chilling. That makes me think "bottling bucket", but would that suck in too much air?

jrubins said:

I was literally just about to buy a slow chill / no chill container... But then I got to thinking : which is better a 7 gal win pack or a 6 gal brewing bucket? Win pack has a nice spigot which is convenient, but a spigot less bucket is completely sealed. And a bucket is easy to clean, too.
So which is better- all other things equal?

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I'm wondering the same thing myself. How about using a 7.5 gallon brew kettle, like this one, as a no-chill fermenter?

I like the idea of transferring boiling wort to the fermenter to reduce the risk of contamination. The 7.5 gallon capacity should provide enough headspace to ferment 5 gallon batches. I'll bet these can be found on sale which will make the price comparable to carboys or better bottles.

Perhaps drill a hole in the lid for an airlock and add a spigot? May need to add something to the top of the lid to add weight and improve the seal.

Seven said:

I'm wondering the same thing myself. How about using a 7.5 gallon brew kettle, like this one, as a no-chill fermenter?

I like the idea of transferring boiling wort to the fermenter to reduce the risk of contamination. The 7.5 gallon capacity should provide enough headspace to ferment 5 gallon batches. I'll bet these can be found on sale which will make the price comparable to carboys or better bottles.

Perhaps drill a hole in the lid for an airlock and add a spigot? May need to add something to the top of the lid to add weight and improve the seal.

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I think if you want to go this route, that would be fine. I think the winpak offers more advantages (is sealable, has a handle, cube design is stackable) and is cheaper though.

Brew kettle or bucket/lid combo will likely not suffice. As the wort cools it creates a vacuum, you need to be able to seal the no-chill container after adding the boiling wort otherwise outside air (and containments) will be drawn into the container. The winpack actually collapses as it cools, this provides a nice "contamination indicator" should you decide to store your wort for a period of time before pitching.....if the container "uncollapses" or even begins to expand you can be assured you have an infection.

thughes said:

Brew kettle or bucket/lid combo will likely not suffice. As the wort cools it creates a vacuum, you need to be able to seal the no-chill container after adding the boiling wort otherwise outside air (and containments) will be drawn into the container. The winpack actually collapses as it cools, this provides a nice "contamination indicator" should you decide to store your wort for a period of time before pitching.....if the container "uncollapses" or even begins to expand you can be assured you have an infection.

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Here's what I ended up doing:
I took my wort from boiling and drained into the bottling bucket.
I attached my "double bubble" airlock and filled it with vodka - the thinking was that as it cooled, it would pull air in, and the vodka would kill most nasties. It would also not make the beer taste any worse if some got pulled in.
After a day, I sloshed the beer around in the bucket to get some more o2 pulled in, then poured in my yeast (temp was about 72 at this point).
Let the beer ferment in the bottling bucket for a week, then racked to a glass carboy.
Rack back to bottling bucket for bottling, et voila.
Initial tasting was quite positive, I didn't taste any off flavors.

In my experience, a regular fermentation bucket seals up just fine if you close the lid and close it up with a rubber stopper (rather than an airlock). It definitely builds up a substantial vacuum.

thughes said:

Brew kettle or bucket/lid combo will likely not suffice. As the wort cools it creates a vacuum, you need to be able to seal the no-chill container after adding the boiling wort otherwise outside air (and containments) will be drawn into the container. The winpack actually collapses as it cools, this provides a nice "contamination indicator" should you decide to store your wort for a period of time before pitching.....if the container "uncollapses" or even begins to expand you can be assured you have an infection.

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In my experience, "no chilling" in the kettle works just fine. While I agree, as the wort chills, some ambient air is introduced into the kettle, but if a healthy yeast is pitched within say 12 hours, the risk of infection is not a worry, at least it has not been a problem for me.

There is a huge difference in sanitation requirements for a fresh wort that someone plans to store for weeks prior to pitching yeast, and that which is required if one is to pitch yeast the following morning.

The winpack HDPE containers are ideal and allow storing of the fresh wort for prolonged periods, but when pitching yeast within a 1/2 day, I have found slow chilling overnight in the kettle to work fine.

I also feel that there may be less risk of infection just letting your wort chill slowly in a well covered kettle, rather than transfering to an ale pale to no chill.

thughes said:

Brew kettle or bucket/lid combo will likely not suffice. As the wort cools it creates a vacuum, you need to be able to seal the no-chill container after adding the boiling wort otherwise outside air (and containments) will be drawn into the container. The winpack actually collapses as it cools, this provides a nice "contamination indicator" should you decide to store your wort for a period of time before pitching.....if the container "uncollapses" or even begins to expand you can be assured you have an infection.

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+1

1 - when the wort cools in a pot and air is sucked in there can be yeast and bacteria and if it's not killed off by the wort temperature it may have hours to reproduce and cause off flavors. Once it's going, even if you pitch a lot of yeast, it will still have several hours more time to produce off flavors.

2 - seeing the bucket bulge - so you know the beer is infected is very useful. If you store your container for a few days (week), this is something you wnat to know.

3 - Because you can squeeze the No Chill Container (Win-Pak for example) you can squeeze out all the air and after it's filled with hot wort, you can turn it upside down. This sterilizes the inside completely, and checks for leaks. A plastic bucket is harder to do this with. Not impossible, just harder.

So let me ask this question as I have been wondering about it for a long time. Would it work to let the just boiled wort cool down a bit and then put it in a plastic pail with lid on tight and then move it immediately to my temperature controlled chest freezer over night I should be ok to pitch the yeast the next day? Obviously I would not have the freezer below freezing. But would this work for just over night?

That's pretty much what I do, except my temperature-controlled chest freezer is replaced by a basement.

Iceman6409 said:

So let me ask this question as I have been wondering about it for a long time. Would it work to let the just boiled wort cool down a bit and then put it in a plastic pail with lid on tight and then move it immediately to my temperature controlled chest freezer over night I should be ok to pitch the yeast the next day? Obviously I would not have the freezer below freezing. But would this work for just over night?

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No.
Dont let it cool (say to 160) and then expose it to air and let it sit hours. Thats the worts possible situation.

Either let it sit in the pot and risk the (slight) chance of infection

or

Transfer while almost boiling to a No_Chill container and let it sit over night.


I am interested in the long term viability of "no Chilled" wort - can it be used a week later? A month?
What I am concerned about is the risk of Botulism.
Its probably slight, but a risk of death is not worth it.

There are 7 types of Clostridium botulinum , and the types A, B, F are the ones that have spores that are resistant to 212F heat. They emit nasty smells and taste, so one might be able to sniff the wort or taste a small sample and spit it out and rinse out their mouth. The Botulism is slow growing and doesn't like an acidic environment, but I don't know how much Botulism toxin could be produced and me not able to smell or taste it. It might not produce enough gas that I'd notice the No Chill container is a little less compacted, but no where near bulging.

There is a home test but it costs around $400 for 25 test kits, or $16 per test. I'd do it for $5.

I thought about using these for no chill, they are HDPE

http://morebeer.com/category/speidel-plastic-tanks.html

I love the no chill method, I've done it twice now and it's such a time saver. Anyone care to comment on these spiedel fermenters and if they would be OK for no chill, or no chill and ferment in one container? They cost a lot more than US Plastics containers.

I think I lost the gasket to my US Plastics no chill container because it does not seal air tight. There is nothing that can be done but to replace the entire thing or I suppose I could make a gasket. I just have not found anything lying around that would work:

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=25470&catid=816

it was great for two batches, then I stored it for too long and I think i just misplaced the gasket that goes in the cap. I did love it for the spigot and for the gallon markings on the side. It says 5 gallons but there is room for almost 6 gallons.

Either of those would be great for gravity pour cask ale, but in all honesty I wouldn't use either for no-chill. Too many openings- openings are kinda wimpy- too many chances for failure... just my opinion. I use containers with just one opening with a robust cap.

Hey all,

I just finished the first part of a NB "Smashing pumpkin" all grain, and I will be exploring the no-chill method. So far so good! I started with 7.1 gal. of strike water and mashed at 152+or- for 60 minutes with a 10 minute mash out at 170ish, which left me with a pre-boil gravity of 1.045. When it was time to boil I had about 6.4 gallons of wort in the kettle. I boiled for 60 minutes, adding my hops at 40. My Post boil gravity was 1.054 (spot on OG). I funneled about 5 gallons of hot wort into a 7 gallon "Aqua-tainer". Will post update about my perceived quality of the wort, and the following fermentation. I'm hoping for a clean, clear beer with no off flavors.
8-30-14
The wort cooled overnight (24hours) in the aquatainer. The container was completely collapsed, which is a good sign that no Baddies got in. Everything smells like it should. I pitched my rehydrated yeast and it was off to a healthy ferm. within 6 hours.

9-8-14

Just took my final gravity reading at 1.010, which I am happy with (not sure what estimated was, but sure i'm in + or - range) This will give me a 5.7% ABV. The beer smells great! Toasty, pumpkin-ish, and most importantly, LIKE BEER!! I removed the airlock, covered it with sanitized foil and stuck it in my fridge to cold crash. After 3 days in the fridge, I plan on fining with gelatin for another 3 days and then bottling. Will update.

If I am "slow chilling" and plan to pitch within 24 hours or so, can't I just put my hot wort into the fermentor and stick it in my fridge-turned-fermentation-chamber?

You could but I'd be concerned about doing this repeatedly as it's going to work the compressor on your fridge pretty hard. If it were me, I'd wait until my wort was around room temp and then throw it in the ferm chamber to get it to proper pitching temps. Just my two cents.

Cheers.

badmajon said:

If I am "slow chilling" and plan to pitch within 24 hours or so, can't I just put my hot wort into the fermentor and stick it in my fridge-turned-fermentation-chamber?

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It you intend to pitch promptly, I would just no chill or "slow chill" in your kettle, transfer to fermenter after 6-8 hours to your fermenter and finish chilling in your fridge or chamber.

The sealed no chill vessels are capable of long term wort storage, if you plan on pitching ASAP or first opportunity, chilling right in the kettle works fine for me.


Wilserbrewer
Http://biabbags.webs.com/

badmajon said:

If I am "slow chilling" and plan to pitch within 24 hours or so, can't I just put my hot wort into the fermentor and stick it in my fridge-turned-fermentation-chamber?

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That's mean to your fridge. If you want pitching in 24 hours, here's what I do, particularly for lagers:

I typically finish the boil late afternoon on a weekend day. I'll pour straight into a sanitized fermentation bucket, seal it up (with an S-airlock), and put it in the basement. By morning, it's usually too hot for pitching but no longer "hot" (no hotter than mid 80s). Then, it goes in the fermentation fridge to get pulled down to the appropriate temperature. By that afternoon/evening, it should be at pitching temperature.

ArcLight said:

Keith,
Can you please post a link for each of these where one can get that type of "cube"

1. The rectangular and round Winpacks from US Plastics
2. The blue Aquatainer from Walmart
3. A cube-shaped container that can be dumped out of
4. A cube-shaped container that has a spigot

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Square
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23848&catid=459
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=24733&catid=459

6 Gallon Round
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23285&catid=459

Resurrecting this thread from the dead. My last couple of brew days have included some pretty frustrating chilling experiences, so I'm starting to research my no-chill options. I'm sure the usplastic containers are great, but the shipping is almost as much as the container itself.

Anyone have experience with this container? http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0064O8OYK/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

A couple of people in the reviews mention using it for no chill, but I wanted to see if anyone here had firsthand experience.

The Aquatainer is also on Amazon with prime shipping, but I'm concerned about using a 7 gallon container since most of my brews are 3-4 gallons.

I ferment in 20L Speidel fermenters, and it would be super easy if I could just transfer to those. I've found comments here and there about people using them for no-chill, but a lot of other people say they have a max temp of 140.

I don't no chill but kind of do.I chill to around 100 deg to lock in hop/flavor /aroma,that goes pretty quick and easy, 10 minutes.(the last 40 deg are what take forever).Transfer to my primary buckets and pitch the next day after temps naturally drop to around 68 deg