Barleywine Feeback

Hey, I'm looking for some feedback on a barleywine recipe I'm putting together. I'm especially interested in what you all think of dosages of the later hop additions.


Batch Size: 40L/10.5 gal (but I imagine that a lot more will be boiled off in the end)
OG: 1.110
IBU: 104
Mash at 67C
Ferment at 18C

15kg/33lbs Pale (75.4%)
3.3kg/7.3lbs Munich 9SRM (16.6%)
1.6kg/3.5lbs Crystal 120EBC/60SRM (8%)

60 min - 165gram/5.8oz Chinook 11.5%AA
15 min - 60gram/2.1oz Centennial 10%AA
15 min - 60gram/2.1oz Cascade 7%AA
05 min - 60gram/2.1oz Centennial 10%AA
05 min - 60gram/2.1oz Cascade 7%AA

One mash split into two boils and two fermenters. Each fermenter gets two packs of US05.

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I'm open to suggestions, but I want to use the supplies that I have on stock. I don't have a good LHBS, so I have to order things and pay shipping. This is what I have on stock:

Malts
Belgian Pale
German Pale
Carapils/Dextrine
Vienna
Munich
Caramalt Light 20-30EBC/10-15 SRM
Caraamber 60-80EBC/30-40SRM
Crystal 120EBC/60SRM
Caraaroma 350-450EBC/180-230SRM
Chocolate 900EBC/450SRM
Black Roasted Barley 1000EBC/500SRM
Black Patent 1400EBC/700SRM

Hops
Summit
Simcoe
Nugget
Liberty
Chinook
Centennial
Cascade
Amarillo
Citra

The summit and liberty are on back-order, and I have no idea when they will show up.

Thanks!

That looks pretty good, however you could add a little chocolate for a bot of a roasty flavor. You would want to keep it low to avoid too dark of a beer, probably in the 0.75% range. The hop additions look pretty good, you could move one of the 5 minute additions to 15 min and reduce the amount. The benefits of late hop bursting a barleywine this big are likely mostly lost due to the amount of time it has to age. Some late hop/dry hop addition can add good character, so you could still keep maybe the cascade at 5 min and do a small dry hop a week before bottling kegging (maybe 2 oz in each fermenter). Cascade, Centennial, or Amarillo would be good here.

smiller said:

add a little chocolate... in the 0.75% range. ...you could move one of the 5 minute additions to 15 min and reduce the amount.

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I was thinking about both of these things, so thanks for the input. What would you reduce it to?

Maybe this?

60 min - 165gram/5.8oz Chinook 11.5%AA
15 min - 60gram/3 oz Centennial 10%AA
15 min - 60gram/2.1oz Cascade 7%AA
05 min - 60gram/2.1oz Cascade 7%AA

That looks good!

The only thing I would change is replacing some of your base malt with 1 lb corn sugar. With that high of a gravity, you may have a tough time getting this dry enough. In high gravity beers you need to give the yeast some simple sugar to get them going strong or else they have a tendency to crap out & leave you with a cloyingly sweet beer. Remember, you'll still get plenty of body & sweetness from the alcohol.

I would get rid the crystal 120 and use cara-amber. Also I would extend the boil for a barleywine. I really wouldnt be worried about the hop additions, but I think they look good. I would error on the heavy side for the hops especially if you are going to an American Barleywine thats going to need some aging anyways. I personally would not add chocolate or any dark roasted malt. This would subtract form the deep malt / fruit flavors and massive hop additions.

BradleyBrew said:

I personally would not add chocolate or any dark roasted malt. This would subtract form the deep malt / fruit flavors and massive hop additions.

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I've had many commercial barleywines and have brewed one with a small amount of chocolate malt, and haven't found this to be the case. Using less than 1% of the malt bill does not overwhelm the other complexities in the flavor profile, but tends to add to them IMO.

smiller said:

I've had many commercial barleywines and have brewed one with a small amount of chocolate malt, and haven't found this to be the case. Using less than 1% of the malt bill does not overwhelm the other complexities in the flavor profile, but tends to add to them IMO.

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I disagree but we all have our opinions.

Per the BJCP "Roasted or burnt malt flavors are inappropriate."

"Some specialty or character malts may be used. Dark malts should be used with great restraint, if at all, as most of the color arises from a lengthy boil."

According to Ray Daniels in Designing Great Beers, 30% or less of NHC second round barley wines had chocolate malt in them when he did his research. Those that did have chocolate used it as less than 1% of their recipe.

So it is rare, but some people do use it and they pull it off.

That being said, I think I have gone back on the idea and I probably won't include it this time. I want to keep the recipe simple this time, but I might try adding a little chocolate in a later batch to see what it does.

Also, I'm considering the sugar additions that were mentioned in this thread.

I agree that an extremely small amount of chocolate would add complexity, but I prefer pale chocolate. You get the complexity without risking any burnt character because it's roasted much less. In small quantities, it gives more of a VERY subtle chocolate/nutty flavor IMO.

If you're shooting for a hoppy as hell American Barleywine that you'll drink soon, I'd suggest sticking with a basic grain bill & let the hops shine. If you want to age this, I'd consider a slightly more complex grain bill.

CTownBrewer said:

I agree that an extremely small amount of chocolate would add complexity, but I prefer pale chocolate. You get the complexity without risking any burnt character because it's roasted much less. In small quantities, it gives more of a VERY subtle chocolate/nutty flavor IMO.

If you're shooting for a hoppy as hell American Barleywine that you'll drink soon, I'd suggest sticking with a basic grain bill & let the hops shine. If you want to age this, I'd consider a slightly more complex grain bill.

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+1 to this, it has been my experience. I concede that BJCP may not like it, but I followed Daniels, and as loetz pointed out, NHC beers have used it. Ultimately, it's your beer, so brew it to your taste!