Bochet Mead (burnt mead)

I bottle waxed my Bochet. Only about 7 months old now.

A hot start to the 3787 ferment. SO much banana with the caramel and honey, smells like a smoothie. Moved it outside to the early spring evening to possibly let some phenols catch up over the next night or two.

So I just tried my first bochet cyser this Friday and for some reason it has not started to ferment. Let me give a quick breakdown and let me know if I did something wrong.

2gallon batch:
1. Boiled the honey(5lbs wildflower) for about an hour until it got nice and dark.
2. Added water to it so everything dissolved.
3. Put it in an ice bath
4. Added water and half a gallon of apple juice to top it off to 2 gallons
5. added yeast nutrient and energizer
5. Hydrated the yeast(K1-V1116) for 15 minutes like the directions say.
6. Pitched the yeast once the must got below 80 degrees.
7. Took an electric beater to the must to give it a lot of oxygen.
8. Put 1 gallon into a gallon jug and left the other gallon in the fermenting bucket.

Does anyone see why my fermentation didn't start. I can only think of 2 things.

1. The apple juice. I used Simply apple. It has no preservatives and it is pasteurized. So it should work.
2. I got a bad batch of yeast.

Anyway let me know what you guys think. Thanks!

How do you know fermentation didn't start? Did you take a gravity reading? A lot of folks assume that you'll see airlock bubbling, but sometimes, the airlock doesn't bubble for reason other that that it's not fermenting. When people say "I don't have fermentation" I always ask, what are you using to gauge this fact? And if it's anything other than a couple gravity readings then I say you don't really know.

Well yes I don't see any activity in the airlock and no i didn't take a gravity reading. One is in a clear jug and I see no activity at all. So you're saying it may be fermenting anyway? I'm just use to bubbles=fermentation.

Revvy said:

How do you know fermentation didn't start? Did you take a gravity reading? A lot of folks assume that you'll see airlock bubbling, but sometimes, the airlock doesn't bubble for reason other that that it's not fermenting. When people say "I don't have fermentation" I always ask, what are you using to gauge this fact? And if it's anything other than a couple gravity readings then I say you don't really know.

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I just took a gravity reading and it has not changed at all. So there is in fact no fermentation occurring.

All seems pretty sound. Did you use any type of added nutrients? Or is this just Caramelized honey, Apple juice and water?

Just honey, apple juice, water, nutrient, and energizer. It's simple enough, so I can only guess the yeast was bad....?

Thats my bet too. If it has been more than 48 hours then I would try a re-pitch.

Am I the only one who's stirring hand was stained yellow after making a Bochet ?

I've washed my hands at least 30 times in the last couple days but my right hand still looks like I've got Jaundice or I'm a serious chain smoker.

With burnt mead, do you basically stick to the same ratio of honey to water that you would with a normal mead, or do you need to measure based on the cooked weight of the honey?

putout said:

With burnt mead, do you basically stick to the same ratio of honey to water that you would with a normal mead, or do you need to measure based on the cooked weight of the honey?

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Yes you do. The cooked honey does not really reduce much at all. The only thing that changes is that some of the caramelized sugars will not ferment with some yeast. So you may end up with mead that may not go completely dry.

Before you re-pitch the yeast. I might suggest to drop a campden tablet in there then wait for 24-48 hours to kill off anything else in the must. Then drop in the yeast. just a thought.

Meads you should not have to add Camden before yeast pitch. Unless it is a melomel/bragott/cyser/pyment or the like with a larger quantity of other ingredients with a lower honey content, you don't need to do the Camden befor fermentation. But adding at racking for it's anti-oxidant properties is fine.

Illuveatar said:

Am I the only one who's stirring hand was stained yellow after making a Bochet ?

I've washed my hands at least 30 times in the last couple days but my right hand still looks like I've got Jaundice or I'm a serious chain smoker.

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The only hand problem I've ever had from making bochet was a very large burn! (Wish I took pictures...)

putout said:

With burnt mead, do you basically stick to the same ratio of honey to water that you would with a normal mead, or do you need to measure based on the cooked weight of the honey?

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Yeah, whatever ratio you would want to end up where you want to go is fine, and the pre-boiled weight is fine to use. Just take into account the fact that the carmelization process will create unfermentables, and you will end up with a slightly higher FG than you would expect otherwise; for example, I use 3 lbs per gallon (18 lbs clover for a 6 gal batch), and my yeast would normally dry that level of honey up to a bone, but after the boiling process, my FG's have ended more in the range of 1.007-1.011.

chickabeelane said:

Before you re-pitch the yeast. I might suggest to drop a campden tablet in there then wait for 24-48 hours to kill off anything else in the must. Then drop in the yeast. just a thought.

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Totally unnecessary. If there's something wild in there working, the damage is already done, and your best bet is to just pitch a good quantity of healthy brewing yeast and expect that it will out-compete most stuff (and eventually kill off any potential nasties with a developing ABV level and pH drop. It won't help all forms of contamination, but I think it's the best bet...

putout said:

With burnt mead, do you basically stick to the same ratio of honey to water that you would with a normal mead, or do you need to measure based on the cooked weight of the honey?

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If you wanted to be picky with reproducing your desired abv, I would increase the honey by about a tenth, as some of the caramelised sugars won't ferment into alcohol.

allhailRITTER said:

Just honey, apple juice, water, nutrient, and energizer. It's simple enough, so I can only guess the yeast was bad....?

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So it turns out my yeast was in fact bad. I pitched new yeast and it started to ferment within a few hours. I seem to have run into another problem though. My airlock was bubbling like crazy for about 5 days and then it just died off real quick. After a week and a half there was almost no activity in the airlock so I racked it assuming that because I used EC-1118 it just fermented really quick. I took a gravity reading and it only dropped from 1.090 to 1.030.

Am I just being impatient will it continue to drop even though there is little to no activity in the airlock? Or could my yeast have pooped out? Last night I added a little yeast nutrient and this morning it looks like there is a little more activity again.

Mead is natorious fir lack luster and boring ferments. Many wines and beers have much mire activity and are mire noticably finished when the airlock stops a knockin. Just give it a few more days. My first mead was like 27 days before it finally stopped for good. Yours will not be that long but you get the point.

Just did this tonight....I was wearing welding gloves the whole time LOL

Bottled the bochet today, after two months fermentation in a plastic drum without taking the lid off at all. I just calculated the OG (4kg honey in 12L water), which comes out at 0.266kg (adjusted for honey moisture) per litre, which is 1.100 OG, pot. abv %13.4.

The FG was 1.000 exactly (JUST the right amount of alcohol to balance out the residual sugars to reach water gravity!), and you'll remember that I didn't cook the honey all the way to a black state, so I guess that's why. That all calculates to about 13.1%, which is quite good for a 3787 Trappist High Gravity ferment. I can see why, since most of the ferment was done outside, in the daytime heat and the night-time cold.

And there are definitely a lot of fruity/spicy Belgian characters. I'll let this age for 6-8 months or so (winter in the Southern Hemisphere). I imagine it will taste just like a Belgian Dark Strong Ale in many ways, except without any bitterness or malt flavour, and a boost of caramel flavour.

Pith said:

I imagine it will taste just like a Belgian Dark Strong Ale in many ways, except without any bitterness or malt flavour, and a boost of caramel flavour.

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How funny never thought of it like that but that is how mine tastes. Good luck with yours.

Arpolis said:

How funny never thought of it like that but that is how mine tastes. Good luck with yours.

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Thanks. Not sure if you saw one of my earlier posts, but I did actually ferment with 3787 Trappist High Gravity. It's definitely a lot stronger in flavours than a BDSA; the outdoor fermentation conditions gave it some strong fruit and spice, and the fact I used Australian (eucalyptus) honey will give it another strong counterpoint to the fruit, spice, floral and caramel. Can't wait.

I've read this article before but just now I thought of the possibilities it holds for cooking the honey for bochet making:

http://ryanbrews.blogspot.com.au/2012/02/candy-syrup-right-way-hint-weve-been.html

My brewing buddy has been begging me to make an open flame beer or something else. I'm thinking camp fire in the back yard, a whole bunch of cheap honey and a dutch oven will make for an interesting bochet like the dude in the youtube video.

This sounds interesting. I'm going to try this as soon as possible.

Alright, it's been sitting for 14 months now. Eucalypt honey, cooked to a deep burgundy, fermented with Trappist High Gravity, FG 1.000. Tasted it again just now and the rocket fuel flavour has subsided much more but not completely. It's very vinous and quite austere, actually. Nowhere near as sweet as I was expecting but definitely more than I'd expect from a regular mead, obviously.

The other flavours are pretty nice but all it really is is a unique drink; not a lot of pickoutable flavours. No strong caramel/toffee/marshmallow character. It's definitely drinkable now, if not fantastic. I will let it age for even longer. It helps that it's being stored at my parent's house which I only visit infrequently (e.g. now).

To future brewers of bochet I would recommend letting the honey go quite black before adding the water. I was afraid it would burn so I took it off when it was a very dark red. The final product is only really medium red though, and I think it would be drinkable much sooner if I had the residual sweetness from extra caramelisation. Alternatively, I'd use a yeast with lower attenuation.

Depends on the outcome, but bochet really begins to shine after 1+years of age. It also benefits from plenty of oak for a good structure and aging potential. Made plenty and while I don't go totally black I usually keep it in the nice dark red/mahogany hue, just because it makes it less blackened mashmallow-y in flavor and the real depth of caramel/burnt flavors come out. The video, while informative, is a tad dated and foolish (not to mention no followup as to how burning the ever-loving crap out of the honey tastes, carcinogenic I imagine ) You can easily just caramelize the honey to your preferred level and brew it without the cast iron and the open flames getting ashes into the honey while you make it.

I ended up cooking mine to a deep deep red/ black and its aged back into a beautiful deep ruby.

I'm planning on brewing some myself real soon. I will only be making about 1.5 gallons with 4# of honey. How long do you think it will take to burn off the moister in the honey? I've been real busy with work and I'm trying to plan it out time wise. Thanks in advance.
Cheers
Kev
P.S. I plan on using my gas brewing rig to do it. No open fires for me.

Pith said:

To future brewers of bochet I would recommend letting the honey go quite black before adding the water. I was afraid it would burn so I took it off when it was a very dark red. The final product is only really medium red though, and I think it would be drinkable much sooner if I had the residual sweetness from extra caramelisation. Alternatively, I'd use a yeast with lower attenuation.

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That's why the joke is when it's getting black and you're so scared you want to turn it off...wait 10 minutes more.

We've done a tasting of the batch I made every year at national homebrew day. Just tasted it after 3 years, in the presence of some serious mead makers including a couple pros, and it is always a big anticipation.

And it's amazing...everyone raves about it.

Have one more bottle left for next May.

I was taking the moonlight meadery tour and I asked Micheal if he'd ever thought about doing a Bochet and he said no because of delicate aroma off cooking. I brewed one two days after that. I can't wait to go again and bring him what I've done! Mine's a beautiful deep red and crystal clear under a light (otherwise its black), and tastes good too.

Its hard for some people to go outside their box and change the flavor of the honey so dramtically. We bottle our first batch made in a pressure canner Saturday morning, its got a deep mahogony color, tastes like caremal and almost tastes like a good burbon and very smooth. Putting some up in splits so we dont have to share an entire bottle everytime someone stops by WVMJ

Can you explain what you did with the pressure canner, please?

huesmann said:

Can you explain what you did with the pressure canner, please?

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We put the honey in quart jars, sealed them with canning lids and added water and when it presurized cooked it for I think 90 minutes, let it cool on its own and pulled the cans out. I used some for the Bochet, saved a jar in reserve to backsweeten it when it was done. We just drank a little tonight, its very smooth, I am also planning on doing a big batch in a pot over a gas fire to see how that compares.

WVMJ

WVMJ said:

Its hard for some people to go outside their box and change the flavor of the honey so dramtically. We bottle our first batch made in a pressure canner Saturday morning, its got a deep mahogony color, tastes like caremal and almost tastes like a good burbon and very smooth. Putting some up in splits so we dont have to share an entire bottle everytime someone stops by WVMJ

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Speaking of bourbon, I let me bochet cyser age on some bourbon soaked oak chips. This will be a year in September. Can't wait to bottle and drink some of this in the fall. I have a feeling this may be a regular recipe for me.

I just got a cider press this year, our bees have really done a good job on our apple trees so we should get enough apples to experiment with. A Bochet csyer is on our list. Do you still get the apple taste with the Bochet and even with the burbon chips? I keep thinking caramel apple mead with this, but the burbon oak chips sounds like it would put it in another category of good. WVMJ

allhailRITTER said:

Speaking of bourbon, I let me bochet cyser age on some bourbon soaked oak chips. This will be a year in September. Can't wait to bottle and drink some of this in the fall. I have a feeling this may be a regular recipe for me.

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WVMJ said:

We put the honey in quart jars, sealed them with canning lids and added water and when it presurized cooked it for I think 90 minutes, let it cool on its own and pulled the cans out. I used some for the Bochet, saved a jar in reserve to backsweeten it when it was done. We just drank a little tonight, its very smooth, I am also planning on doing a big batch in a pot over a gas fire to see how that compares.

WVMJ

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WVMJ, how long did you let yours age for?

It cleared pretty quick and we backsweetened it and it got cloudy again so I fined it at 6 months from innoculation and filtered it. THis was a test batch to see how the technique would work, some test batches you just wish were 10 gallons! We have a batch of Elders Blood Bochetomel going now made with dried elderberries, Its crazy good already, just waiting for more elderberries to grow and dry! WVMJ

WVMJ said:

I just got a cider press this year, our bees have really done a good job on our apple trees so we should get enough apples to experiment with. A Bochet csyer is on our list. Do you still get the apple taste with the Bochet and even with the burbon chips? I keep thinking caramel apple mead with this, but the burbon oak chips sounds like it would put it in another category of good. WVMJ

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When I made my cyser I accidentally bought too little apple cider so I had to add some water. So even if I had not put in the oak chips I don't know how much my apple would have come through. So I can't say whether or not the oak takes away from the apple. Either way, I think oak chips (especially ones soaked in bourbon) are a perfect accent to any type of bochet. The complexity of the bochet flavor I think goes perfectly with oak and bourbon.

WVMJ said:

We put the honey in quart jars, sealed them with canning lids and added water and when it presurized cooked it for I think 90 minutes, let it cool on its own and pulled the cans out. I used some for the Bochet, saved a jar in reserve to backsweeten it when it was done. We just drank a little tonight, its very smooth, I am also planning on doing a big batch in a pot over a gas fire to see how that compares.

WVMJ

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So did the canning effectively caramelize the honey?