How do I get the best out of kits?

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GWF

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Just a simple quick question.

I usually brew them up to 5 gallons and the end result usually tastes a bit watery, I've only ever reduced the amount of water I've added once before and the result was much better.

What I'd like to know though is how to get the best out of kits and what to do to improve them. I follow the pack directions and use sucrose as I've no idea where to purchase dextrose cheaply in the UK. (No local home brew shops close by either).

The gravity usually comes in at ~1.000 when they've finished so they feel quite watery too, which isn't good considering I like bitters.

What's the deal with maltodextrin?

Also: Are those premium kits much better?
 
the sucrose is a big part of your problem. I would replace it with malt extract (DME or LME) which is maltose and will do wonders for your beer.
 
stop buying kits and brew your own stuff. Its cheaper and the recipe won't have to rely on sugar for alcohol content.
 
you don't need a mash tun. just get bags of DME or LME and hops and do extract brews with steeping grains on the stove.

or use kits and replace sugar with malt extract. trust me, the added $ is well worth it..
 
Ya... just buy your own extract and put your own recipes together. If you compare a kit and the ingredients to make that kit... you'll see that you are getting ripped off.

Although...I bet you do have room for a mash tun. I was doing all grain in a 700sqft apartment with a wife living there. A mash tun is just a little cooler...I started with a 7 gallon cooler.
 
I don't think you'll save money by buying extract ingredients separately. In fact, at most places I've seen, extrcat kits are cheaper than buying the individual ingredeints.

That may not be the case for the large scale kit developers (True brew, etc.) rather thasn AHS, NB, etc. And of course, there are other reasons you might want to step aside from kits. But i don't think cost is an issue here (I think sugar is).
 
I guess it depends on what kinda kit you get, and from where. If you are getting the cheapest pale ale kit then you can expect REALLY pale ale. If you are buying a premium russian imperial stout kit, then you can probably expect a pretty heavy brew. Even still... I think the kits err on the low side of everything. You may get a 1.080 RIS kit... where as I wouldn't make a RIS unless it was 1.100 or higher. IMHO, its much more fun to make your own recipe and work that out. There are plenty of really great recipes out there, readily available. You don't need someone else boxing it up for you and deciding what goes in there.. Live on the edgeeee a little! HA
 
Okay, let's say it's £10 for 1.5kg of malt extract, how much malt extracts needed for 23l?

Can one of you post a bog standard recipe so I'd know what was what please.

Edit:

I've just looked at some recipes and they call for 6kg of extract per 5 gallons, that'd cost me £40+ for the extract alone, it's end up coming in at about £60 for 5 gallons, I can buy beer for less than that. The most expensive kits are £20 and they're supposed to be quite good.
 
Six kilograms is a pretty big beer. Six pounds is more standard.

A very simple recipe might be:

6 lbs. LME
Couple ounces hops
Yeast

Add ~1/2 lb. specialty grains, and you have a pretty decent brew.

[ADD: this would a 5 gallon, 19L recipe. For 23L you might need to add ~20% more]

You could save money by going all grain. Or you could save by replacing the LME with table sugar, but that's how you get watery beer.

I believe 'premium' kits are the ones without sugar. Those would be better. I do believe that the sort of national pre-packaged kits you buy at your LHBS (Munton's Connoissuer, True Brew, or whatever) are less of a bargain. If your LHBS assmebles its own kits, those are often a decent deal.

Anyway, where not making porgress in this thread because we're torn between (a) less expensive beer and (b) more fully flavored beer.
 
McGarnigle said:
Six kilograms is a pretty big beer. Six pounds is more standard.

A very simple recipe might be:

6 lbs. LME
Couple ounces hops
Yeast

Add ~1/2 lb. specialty grains, and you have a pretty decent brew.

[ADD: this would a 5 gallon, 19L recipe. For 23L you might need to add ~20% more]

You could save money by going all grain. Or you could save by replacing the LME with table sugar, but that's how you get watery beer.

I believe 'premium' kits are the ones without sugar. Those would be better. I do believe that the sort of national pre-packaged kits you buy at your LHBS (Munton's Connoissuer, True Brew, or whatever) are less of a bargain. If your LHBS assmebles its own kits, those are often a decent deal.

Anyway, where not making porgress in this thread because we're torn between (a) less expensive beer and (b) more fully flavored beer.
Click to expand...

That sounds more reasonable, can you direct me to a quick guide for extract and all grain brewing? Do you have any experience with the premium kits, I stayed away from them because I had visions of them being of similar quality to the £10 kits for twice the price.

£20-£30 per 5 gallons would be fine.

Thanks.
 
McGarnigle said:
I don't think you'll save money by buying extract ingredients separately. In fact, at most places I've seen, extrcat kits are cheaper than buying the individual ingredeints.
.
Click to expand...

I have no idea where you are looking. I've never seen kits cheaper than buying straight extract.


OP, are you using the Kit and Kilo type kits? (IE, a can of LME, and a couple pounds of sugar?)
 
GWF said:
That sounds more reasonable, can you direct me to a quick guide for extract and all grain brewing? Do you have any experience with the premium kits, I stayed away from them because I had visions of them being of similar quality to the £10 kits for twice the price.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

The stickied threads of the forum section are helpful, but for starting up, check here
 
Synovia said:
I have no idea where you are looking. I've never seen kits cheaper than buying straight extract.
Well, I've checked recipes at places like Northern Brewer, and they are the same price or even slightly less. The 'slightly less' may be due to odd amounts, e.g., the kit includes .25 ounce of a hop that you can only buy by the full ounce. So maybe they're the same cost, not less.

Forrest from Austin Homebrew has also said his kits cost what the ingredients cost. So again, maybe they're not cheaper, but they're not more expensive.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
johnnyboy1965 said:
Maltodextrin is sold as "Beer kit enhancer" made by Muntons.
Maltodextrin is 50% dextrose an 50% dried malt extract.
Click to expand...

Sorry mate, but Maltodextrin is a not 50% dextrose and 50% DME. It is a complex sugar, that is not very fermentable. A google search will reveal, or this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maltodextrin

On topic, maltodextrin tends to add body to beers and i like using it quite a bit. If I have it on hand, I add the beersmith reccomended amount to every batch of beer I make.
 
I think if you want to get more out of a canned kit, down size your batches and skip the sugar. Just for giggles I'm looking at buying a Coopers kit (1.7 kilo) to make a 12 liter batch. I'm interested to see how well of a brew a canned kit can make without adding anything other than some good yeast and using proper fermentation temps.
 
For improving kits I did a kit not long ago, used a standard bitter can with either 1kg of dry extract and 500g brown sugar, or it might have been 500g dry extract and 500g brown sugar. Used Safale 04 instead of the kit yeast and it came out pretty well as a decent light ale once it had a couple of months bottled up. Annoyingly at my beer festival party it was one of the favourites!
 
I'll give those premium kits a go, they're twice the price but I'm sure they'll be twice as good.
 
jjones17 said:
Sorry mate, but Maltodextrin is a not 50% dextrose and 50% DME. It is a complex sugar, that is not very fermentable. A google search will reveal, or this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maltodextrin

On topic, maltodextrin tends to add body to beers and i like using it quite a bit. If I have it on hand, I add the beersmith reccomended amount to every batch of beer I make.
Click to expand...

Sorry my bad. Muntons Beer Kit Enhancer is 50% spray dried dextrose and 50% spray dried malt extract.
 
johnnyboy1965 said:
Sorry my bad. Muntons Beer Kit Enhancer is 50% spray dried dextrose and 50% spray dried malt extract.
Click to expand...

Too funny, since I had a hunch that was just a typo after I wrote my message :) Sounds like the Muntons is a decent product, given the ingredients. I can see why people seem to like it
 
PT Ray said:
I think if you want to get more out of a canned kit, down size your batches and skip the sugar. Just for giggles I'm looking at buying a Coopers kit (1.7 kilo) to make a 12 liter batch. I'm interested to see how well of a brew a canned kit can make without adding anything other than some good yeast and using proper fermentation temps.
Click to expand...

I have done this using Coopers Wheat Kit (the Premium or 'selection' version, not the standard kit), which is just hopped malt extract in a can. I did 1 can, 10 litres of water. I boiled some hallertau hops in a few liters of water for 20 mins, then added my can. I waited for hot break, then topped it up with enough cold tap water to make about 10 litres. I used coopers yeast (not the kit, bought some fresher stuff)

This beer turned out pretty much like Budweiser, or Coors, except with more malt flavor. It was actually very refreshing, and the BMC crowd said "This is the best homebrew I have ever had", though nobody had ever tried any other homebrew.

I did it again using 1 can, 1 kilo light DME, and 20 litres of water and the same hallertau hop method above: It was even better.
 

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