Innis & Gunn Clone- I'm Going for it!

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Veinman

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I've had Innis & Gunn a few times and I quite enjoy it sadly it's the one beer I can't get a clone recipe. I've found a lot of forum posts here and elsewhere requesting a recipe and some discussion but no posts indicating someone actually brewed said recipes or comments about them.

This is what they say about their Triple Matured Oak:
"In this brew we combine the best ingredients from both Scotland and England - Optic Malt and Chocolate Malt grown in the Scottish borders and Goldings hops from the hop fields of Kent.
After brewing we filled the beer into American White Oak barrels{...}and left it there for an uncommonly lengthy maturation
Once we judged that the beer had absorbed the perfect degree of oak character, we emptied the barrels into a marrying tun, and let the maturation continue until the flavours from the individual barrels had blended together and mellowed to our satisfaction.
We then filled this batch into bottles, inside which the final, month-long maturation took place."

So I know:
1. 6.6% ABV
2. I think "Optic Malt" means UK 2-row or Marris Otter thoughts?
3. Chocolate Malt
4. Kent hops- Does this mean East Kent Golding or are their others?
5. Oak aged in barrels- I'll be doing oak chips soaked in Bourbon to sanitize probably around 1-2oz in the secondary for 10-14 days.

That being said here is my recipe:

13lbs UK 2-row
1.25lbs Caramel 60L
0.25lbs Chocolate Malt
1.50 oz East Kent Golding 5% 60 mins Boil
Wyeast # 1728 Scottish Ale
2 oz of Bourbon Soaked Oak Chips for 10 days in Secondary
Mash for 60 mins at 154F

OG: 1075
FG: 1025
Color: 17
IBU: 20.4

Finally I've read up on the "modern" Scottish style and "traditional" involving kettle caramelization which I think sounds like what I want so I'll try boiling the 1st gallon of runnings to 1/2 gallon volume for increased caramelization which I think should increase my FG up a bit.

I do realize that Scottish 80 style tops out at 6% max.

So thoughts on this?

edit: Anyone wanting to try this the recipe I ended up using is quite a bit different and is posted on the second page of this thread.
 
Have you tried this? I'd love to find out if this is even remotely close to the perfection I enjoy :drunk:
 
I haven't actually brewed it yet. When I didn't get any responses I kinda forgot about it and I got busy so I didn't end up brewing it. I am planning to brew it on the 3rd when I have some free time and the weather is supposed to be (relatively) warm. I will post updates when I do brew.
 
Very interested in this, I plan on attempting the same later this year prob when the weather is a bit nicer. A buddy I brew with loves this beer.

I did some research though, and the oak barrels I&G is aged in it actually virgin barrels, so I was planning on just sanitizing some oak cube in sterilizer first, rather than bourbon or whiskey.

I also heard they may add some corn sugar to increase the alcohol, not sure about that one though.

Keep us posted!
 
Very interested in this, I plan on attempting the same later this year prob when the weather is a bit nicer. A buddy I brew with loves this beer.

I did some research though, and the oak barrels I&G is aged in it actually virgin barrels, so I was planning on just sanitizing some oak cube in sterilizer first, rather than bourbon or whiskey.

I also heard they may add some corn sugar to increase the alcohol, not sure about that one though.

Keep us posted!

Good to know thanks. I brewed this on January 3rd and hit my OG right on 1.070 but my mash temperature dropped a little towards the end so it might finish a little dry, also I boiled down the first gallon of wort to about a litre (quart) to add some caramelization flavor, I'm interested to see how that affects the FG. I was going to start soaking the chips today, now that I think about it their isn't much whiskey flavor in the beer so maybe I'll go with vodka soaking as that would be pretty neutral flavor. I'll let you know how this comes out in a couple months.
 
Good to know thanks. I brewed this on January 3rd and hit my OG right on 1.070 but my mash temperature dropped a little towards the end so it might finish a little dry, also I boiled down the first gallon of wort to about a litre (quart) to add some caramelization flavor, I'm interested to see how that affects the FG. I was going to start soaking the chips today, now that I think about it their isn't much whiskey flavor in the beer so maybe I'll go with vodka soaking as that would be pretty neutral flavor. I'll let you know how this comes out in a couple months.


Two things:

1. I think your understanding of how mashing works is a little off, temp dropping a few degrees towards the end will not leave you with a more fermentable wort. The higher temperatures you started with denature the amylases more quickly leaving you with a more fermentable wort, the higher temp also favors amylases that leave you with less fermentable, more complex sugars in the wort, losing heat does not gain amylase activity if the temp drops, you should be fine.

2. Take your oak cubes, put in a mug or something and add boiling water and cover with aluminum foil or something, let cool, pour off the water (with bitter oak tannins you probably don't want) and add the cubes to the beer. No need for booze or sanitizer, steeping in boiling water works well and served a dual purpose of sanitizing and removing the 'bad' oak flavors. This is Jamil's method and has worked well for me. You are probably going to want more than 10 days on the oak too, from what I am told, I&G is pretty oaky as evidenced by their description of the aging process.

Let us know how this comes out, I have a friend who loves this beer but I have never had a chance to try it. Never even seen it in the states.
 
Two things:

1. I think your understanding of how mashing works is a little off, temp dropping a few degrees towards the end will not leave you with a more fermentable wort. The higher temperatures you started with denature the amylases more quickly leaving you with a more fermentable wort, the higher temp also favors amylases that leave you with less fermentable, more complex sugars in the wort, losing heat does not gain amylase activity if the temp drops, you should be fine.

2. Take your oak cubes, put in a mug or something and add boiling water and cover with aluminum foil or something, let cool, pour off the water (with bitter oak tannins you probably don't want) and add the cubes to the beer. No need for booze or sanitizer, steeping in boiling water works well and served a dual purpose of sanitizing and removing the 'bad' oak flavors. This is Jamil's method and has worked well for me. You are probably going to want more than 10 days on the oak too, from what I am told, I&G is pretty oaky as evidenced by their description of the aging process.

Let us know how this comes out, I have a friend who loves this beer but I have never had a chance to try it. Never even seen it in the states.

1. Good to know thanks. I do understand that a lower mash temperature makes a more fermentable and thus drier finished beer, I have been told that if your temperature drops during mashing it will be slightly more fermentable perhaps this is not a big deal as most of the coversion is done, the temperature dropped at about the 40 minute mark of my 60 minute mash.

2. I will certainly try this I have changed my strategy for oaking, orginally I was thinking a whiskey flavor was desired but now am leaning towards just an oak flavor and this sounds like a good strategy. I think I'll start tasting the wort at 14 days looking for a strong flavor and go from there.

Thanks for the tips.
 
Two things:

2. Take your oak cubes, put in a mug or something and add boiling water and cover with aluminum foil or something, let cool, pour off the water (with bitter oak tannins you probably don't want) and add the cubes to the beer. No need for booze or sanitizer, steeping in boiling water works well and served a dual purpose of sanitizing and removing the 'bad' oak flavors. This is Jamil's method and has worked well for me. You are probably going to want more than 10 days on the oak too, from what I am told, I&G is pretty oaky as evidenced by their description of the aging process.

Let us know how this comes out, I have a friend who loves this beer but I have never had a chance to try it. Never even seen it in the states.

I ended up getting oak "chips" instead of cubes I have come to understand the only differnce is the chips are not uniform shape unlike the cubes. They are medium toast. I was thinking of using 1 or 2 oz which would you reccomend, I figure I'll start at 14 days and taste when its "just a little too oaky" as I hear the flavor fades a little with aging.
 
Just a quick update. After a month of primary I transferred my this beer to secondary today on top of 2 oz of medium toast american oak chips. I plan to let it sit for 10 days and then start tasting it, when its just a little too oaky I'll pull it and bottle it. The hydro sample was really good, the hydro sample was really good and I could have drank it as a standard Scottish Wee Heavy. I'll keep this updated with my oaking notes.
 
I was not happy with any of the Innis & Gunn brews I was served in Scotland. WAY too much oak.

Oak cam be implemented to supplement a well brewed beer. However, I felt they brewed marginally adequate beers and then covered up all of the mediocreness with oak and alcohol aged oak.
 
The Innis & Gunn bottles are in the offlicenses here at the moment, I think it's dreadful stuff myself, like chewing on a plank of wood. I'd agree with the poster above, WAY too much oak.
 
I loved the Innis & Gunn Rum Cask and I have good rum sitting around so I think I will try your recipe and do rum soaked chips. Is there anything in your recipe you would change?
 
I loved the Innis & Gunn Rum Cask and I have good rum sitting around so I think I will try your recipe and do rum soaked chips. Is there anything in your recipe you would change?

I'm getting to near the end of my oaking right now and so I've been trying it ever couple of days. I bought a bottle of Innis & Gunn to compare it to today. The color is much darker than Innis & Gunn but the flavor is right on, the sweetness of the Scotch Ale is right where I want it and the oak I think will be dead on in another week or so.
I would guess a few week secondary of 2-3 oz of chips soaked in a good dark rum for a few weeks should get you pretty close to the rum cask version though I haven't actually tried it.
 
I'm getting to near the end of my oaking right now and so I've been trying it ever couple of days. I bought a bottle of Innis & Gunn to compare it to today. The color is much darker than Innis & Gunn but the flavor is right on, the sweetness of the Scotch Ale is right where I want it and the oak I think will be dead on in another week or so.
I would guess a few week secondary of 2-3 oz of chips soaked in a good dark rum for a few weeks should get you pretty close to the rum cask version though I haven't actually tried it.

Taste concerns me more than color so it sounds like you have created a good path for me to follow. As for rum I'll probably use Bacardi Anejo. I would use Zacapa or Zaya but every year my Dad gives me a bottle of the Anejo for Christmas and seeing as I drink rum maybe once every couple of months it will be a good use for it.
 
Great stuff about it being pretty close! Let us know if you would tweak the recipe at all.

As for the Rum cask version, I think it's a different beer, not just the rum cask conditioning, but a different recipe, it's fuller bodied, but less sweet, and less carmel and more fruit/raisin flavour. A great winter sipper.
 
Great stuff about it being pretty close! Let us know if you would tweak the recipe at all.

As for the Rum cask version, I think it's a different beer, not just the rum cask conditioning, but a different recipe, it's fuller bodied, but less sweet, and less carmel and more fruit/raisin flavour. A great winter sipper.

After looking at their sit the answer is still not clear. They note it was a special batch but didn't elaborate on whether or not it was special because it was brewed differently or because it was aged differently. However they said that half the batch was aged in new oak barrels and half in rum barrels, then blended. I have no other recipe to go on and I'm a brew newb so I will just try this as my base and experiment with the rum.
 
I went back and looked at my first post and realized that after further research I had changed the recipe quite a bit and I better update this before people try and copy it.

The recipe I ACTUALLY used was a part-gyle with a Scottish 70 coming in the second runnings. To do just 1 batch the recipe would be:
5.5 gallon batch at 78% efficiency
13 lbs Marris Otter Malt
4 oz Chocolate Malt
2 oz Roasted Barley
1.5 oz of Fuggles (4.5%) at 60 mins for 19 IBUs
Scottish 1728 Wyeast

OG 1068
FG 1016
ABV of 6.7%

Take the 1st gallon of runnings and boil it down on the stove to about 1 quart (or litre) of liquid, add this to the boil, this provides the caramel flavor and color for the beer.
Because of this you want to calculate your water as if you were producing enough wort for 6.25 gallons of beer.

After a month long primary rack the beer onto 2 oz of medium toasted American oak chips that have been boiled in a cup of water for 10 minutes. You can probably alter the flavor a good deal by swapping this for chips soaked in: whiskey, rye, spiced, dark or navy rum etc.
 
Thanks so much for updating!

I was going to try and do this with the brew in a bag technique (I don't have a dedicated mash tun), I'll probably try and mash with less than the full volume, then transfer out 1Gal to boil down, return that to the kettle and top up with water for the full boil.

Think that should work ok?

Also, did you soak the oak chips in boiled/boiling water first, as was suggested?
 
Thanks so much for updating!

I was going to try and do this with the brew in a bag technique (I don't have a dedicated mash tun), I'll probably try and mash with less than the full volume, then transfer out 1Gal to boil down, return that to the kettle and top up with water for the full boil.

Think that should work ok?

Also, did you soak the oak chips in boiled/boiling water first, as was suggested?

The BIAB technique should work fine, just pull/pour a gallon out after your mash before sparging.
I boiled my chips for 10 minutes in water, no alcohol. I did it this way because I wanted the oak flavor without any strong alcohol flavors. If you were looking for a whiskey/rum/rye etc. flavor on top of the oak you could certainly soak your chips for a few weeks before transferring in the liquour of your choice.
 
Ok, it's been 8 days.....taste it and let us know. I'm drinking the original right now, and it's unbelievable. I was gonna go for the rum barrel aged but went for the original. Next time I'll try the rum aged.
 
Ok, it's been 8 days.....taste it and let us know. I'm drinking the original right now, and it's unbelievable. I was gonna go for the rum barrel aged but went for the original. Next time I'll try the rum aged.

I've been tasting it every day and its hard to not get a second sample. I think the oak is pretty much dead on today so I'm going to give it 2 or 3 more days then bottle as I hear the oak flavor will fade a little during conditioning.
 
Picking up the ingredients this afternoon and brewing tomorrow, I'll report back. Thanks again for sharing
 
After all the waiting I am currently sitting here enjoying my first sips of my fully carbed Innis & Gunn Clone and comparing it to a bottle of the real thing. I'm very happy with how this came out. As I think I mentioned, this was the beer I most wanted to try and copy since I started brewing and I think mine is very close to the original.
The color is MUCH darker than the original but the taste is right on, it has a sweet taste, good body and then a nice oaky finish with just a hint of tannin in the after taste, the oak aroma is very nice as well and you'd never guess that its 7.1% ABV.

Overall I'm very excited with how this beer turned out. I think next time I may drop the Roasted Barley all together to lighten the color up and see if it adds anything to the beer, I'm already planning to rebrew this this weekend as I know the first 5 gallons are going to go fast.
 
After all the waiting I am currently sitting here enjoying my first sips of my fully carbed Innis & Gunn Clone and comparing it to a bottle of the real thing. I'm very happy with how this came out. As I think I mentioned, this was the beer I most wanted to try and copy since I started brewing and I think mine is very close to the original.
The color is MUCH darker than the original but the taste is right on, it has a sweet taste, good body and then a nice oaky finish with just a hint of tannin in the after taste, the oak aroma is very nice as well and you'd never guess that its 7.1% ABV.

Overall I'm very excited with how this beer turned out. I think next time I may drop the Roasted Barley all together to lighten the color up and see if it adds anything to the beer, I'm already planning to rebrew this this weekend as I know the first 5 gallons are going to go fast.

Good to hear, I had some fermentation issues and had to re-pitch so mine is still a while off but your success makes me very hopeful.
 
Glad to hear it, Veinman, and I will probably be using the second recipe to make a batch of my own (though I may go lighter on the fermentables, I'm not too fond of one glass of beer giving me the spins).

Keep up the good work, and to those who are not fond of it, I disagree with you but will give my life so we can keep disagreeing. LOL
 
I would really like to try and brew some rum cask I&G clone, but I am not an all grain person, just an extract person.

How does one go about converting a recipe from all grain to extract with some specialty grains if needed?

Thanks in advance!
 
I just tried crafting a recipe with the beersmith free trial (pretty nifty software, might buy that one...) and came up with the following.

Can anyone take a look at this and let me know if it sounds like it will be decent? I know it will be beer, I just want it to be a clone of I&G, and to taste like it.

Thanks

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: I&G clone
Brewer: James Harron
Asst Brewer:
Style: Strong Scotch Ale
TYPE: Extract
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 14.61 l
Post Boil Volume: 13.78 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 22.71 l
Bottling Volume: 21.20 l
Estimated OG: 1.067 SG
Estimated Color: 37.7 EBC
Estimated IBU: 20.1 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 0.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
2.50 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 18.7 IBUs
1.0 pkg SafBrew Specialty Ale (DCL/Fermentis #T- Yeast 6 -
0.50 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 5 1.4 IBUs
0.25 kg Chocolate Malt (689.5 EBC) Grain 2 4.8 %
4.00 kg Light Dry Extract (15.8 EBC) Dry Extract 3 76.2 %
1.00 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) US (3.9 EBC) Grain 1 19.0 %
2.00 oz Oak Chips (Secondary 7.0 days) Flavor 7 -


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 5.25 kg
----------------------------

Sparge: Remove grains, and prepare to boil wort
Notes:
------
Soak oak chips in rum for 5 days. Add oak chips and rum to secondary and age for 7 - 10 days
(to taste).

Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Well I finally gave this a go, it's been in the fermenter almost a week, I'll transfer to secondary and add the oak this weekend.

A couple things, i added an extra pound of Maris Otter to make up for my Brew in a bag inefficiency, however it turned out I was much better than before. I expected 63%, ended up with 72%, so my OG was a bit high.

I did boil down 1 gal of the wort to 1 quart. REALLY concentrated the flavour and colour, I think that will make a difference in the final beer.

A couple questions for Veinman:

When did you put the boiled down wort into the boil pot? I added it about 30 min to go, just to keep the time down, it took about 1 hour to boil the gallon down.

How long did you end up oaking the beer for? I didn't see an actual time? I thought it was about 2-3 weeks, right?

And yes, it QUITE dark, almost like the Rum Cask version, just a bit redder and more opaque.
 
1. I added the boiled syrup at about 30 minutes if I recall correctly. I don't think it matters a ton it's obiously been sanitized from all the boiling so whenever it's done I'd say add it in.
2. I ended up oaking for 12 days from my notes. I had originally assumed 2 weeks but at 12 days it was just a little bit "extra oaked" so I pulled it, it mellowed just enough to make it perfect. I'd start sampling it around 8-10 days and every day or so after that to figure out when the oak flavor is where you want it to be.

Good luck.
 
Has anyone tried making this recipe without the roasted barley? How does it affect the color and taste?
 
Thanks for the feedback! I had a sample and it's a very good beer right now, although the alcohol is a little on the hot side right now. Im very optimistic about the final product, the 'oak tea' I made to sanitize the chip smelled awesome.

As for not using the roast barley, I actually use black malt, not sure if it will really matter.
 
I'm going to give this recipe a try this weekend. I will probably drop the roasted barley. Just a couple questions prior to starting:

What temp did you primary at and for how long?
After you pulled the oak chips how long did you secondary for?

I was looking into oak chips versus cubes and while most sources claim a better flavor profile from the cubes they recommend placement for at least 2 months, so I'm sticking with the chips.

Thanks for all the updates on how your recipe turned out.
 
I'm going to give this recipe a try this weekend. I will probably drop the roasted barley. Just a couple questions prior to starting:

What temp did you primary at and for how long?
After you pulled the oak chips how long did you secondary for?

I was looking into oak chips versus cubes and while most sources claim a better flavor profile from the cubes they recommend placement for at least 2 months, so I'm sticking with the chips.

Thanks for all the updates on how your recipe turned out.

I primary all of my ales in ambient temp of 62F.

I think I tertiared for 2-3 weeks, once the Oak is pulled it's ready to bottle IMO it can mellow in tertiary or bottles it's up to you.

Sounds good on the chips vs. cube debate.
 
I had my primary at 19c. I used chips and left them for thirteen days. right now it's been in a tertiary for 2 weeks. I'll let ya know what I think once it's bottled.
 
I'd say that recipe to posted the link to is probably accurate, the only thing I'd caution against is the water salts, as they would be adjusting the 'house' water, you really don't know what you'd be getting. A better bet would be to adjust your water as needed to a Edinburg profile, then adjusting from there.

For the record, my recipe used 97% Maris Otter, ~2% chocolate and 0.8% roast barley. I bottled last weekend, tasted good, I'll update when I try it carbed and cold.
 
Veinman, bottled yesterday after 6 weeks in secondary. 10 days with the oak chips. Flavor is a bit overoaked which hopefully will mellow with aging. I used 1 oz of roasted barley and just as you said the final color is much darker than the original but the taste is spot on as far as I can tell without carbonation. Looking forward to trying it carbed in few weeks. Thanks for the great recipe.
 
StittsvilleJames said:
I just tried crafting a recipe with the beersmith free trial (pretty nifty software, might buy that one...) and came up with the following.

Can anyone take a look at this and let me know if it sounds like it will be decent? I know it will be beer, I just want it to be a clone of I&G, and to taste like it.

Thanks

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: I&G clone
Brewer: James Harron
Asst Brewer:
Style: Strong Scotch Ale
TYPE: Extract
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 14.61 l
Post Boil Volume: 13.78 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 22.71 l
Bottling Volume: 21.20 l
Estimated OG: 1.067 SG
Estimated Color: 37.7 EBC
Estimated IBU: 20.1 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 0.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
2.50 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 18.7 IBUs
1.0 pkg SafBrew Specialty Ale (DCL/Fermentis #T- Yeast 6 -
0.50 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 5 1.4 IBUs
0.25 kg Chocolate Malt (689.5 EBC) Grain 2 4.8 %
4.00 kg Light Dry Extract (15.8 EBC) Dry Extract 3 76.2 %
1.00 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) US (3.9 EBC) Grain 1 19.0 %
2.00 oz Oak Chips (Secondary 7.0 days) Flavor 7 -

Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 5.25 kg
----------------------------

Sparge: Remove grains, and prepare to boil wort
Notes:
------
Soak oak chips in rum for 5 days. Add oak chips and rum to secondary and age for 7 - 10 days
(to taste).

Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Has anyone tried this recipe?Or does anyone have an extract recipe for innis and gunn that they tried, thanks
 
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