cheapest way to go pure-O2

I've started to make some bigger beers, and even with a starter of liquid yeast, I think my results would be better with aeration (I'm currently not doing anything on that front)

I see the 2-gram oxygen cylinders at Home Depot for $10 - how many 5-gallon batches can I aerate with one of those? I assume they are just disposable like a propane camping tank?

Also, do I need to get the Williams Brewing aeration kit w/ diffusion stone, etc? I heard Jamil on the Brewing Network say that most of the gas goes into solution due to disturbing the surface, not due to the tiny bubbles. Can I just get some some of stainless small-bore wand to pump the oxygen into the bottom of the carboy?

Do these cylinders require some sort of regulator like a C02 bottle, or can I just run it full-blast for 60 seconds?

I bought the O2 kit from Austin Homebrew and got my tank from Lowes. It was a little more than I wanted to spend, but it was worth it. My fermentations have all attenuated as much as the yeast will allow and even a little more in some cases since I started this. I have done 5 batches at 5 gallons so far with my O2 tank..

Aeration is very important and you should take it seriously. It helps the yeast multiply for a vigorous fermentation that overtakes any infections and avoids stuck fermentation later.

The Williams kit is what I use and I highly recommend it. The stainless steel wand makes it very easy to get the stone down in the bottom of the bucket/carboy. Otherwise you are pushing on a floppy hose that wants to curl around and come back up. It comes with the regulator valve you need.

You don't need to blast the O2 for 60 seconds. A gentle fizz (think about it - any bubbles rising to the surface are not going into the liquid) for about 30-45 seconds is all you need. At that rate, one of those red O2 cylinders will last for 7 or so batches including starters (which require maybe 15 seconds). I did find a Benzomatic 2.1 OZ (not gram) cylinder at TruValue Hardware for about the same price as the smaller one in the big box store. It claims to have 50% more. I have not used enough of it to tell how long it will last. I write the batch number I start with on the bottle so I have a general idea when to pick up a replacement.

The plumbing type bottles are disposable. I have tried to find a local supplier of O2 in greater quantities (medical or welding) but haven't had any luck yet. Maybe someone will chime in with a way to tap that source.

Brewham said:

The Williams kit is what I use and I highly recommend it. The stainless steel wand makes it very easy to get the stone down in the bottom of the bucket/carboy. Otherwise you are pushing on a floppy hose that wants to curl around and come back up. It comes with the regulator valve you need.

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I'd like to get that wand some day, but for now I just zip-tie a SS spoon to my air stone to give it enough weight to drop down to the bottom of the bucket.. It works great!

Also, scour Craigslist for someone selling medical O2 tanks. I kept looking once a week and eventually found someone near me selling two full tanks (including their regulators) for $50, and I had to spend $2 to modify my wand (from William's brewing) to make it work with the new tanks. It was kind of a large expenditure up front, but it beats paying $10 for the tiny tanks from the big box store. :rockin:

thisoneguy said:

Also, scour Craigslist for someone selling medical O2 tanks. I kept looking once a week and eventually found someone near me selling two full tanks (including their regulators) for $50, and I had to spend $2 to modify my wand (from William's brewing) to make it work with the new tanks. It was kind of a large expenditure up front, but it beats paying $10 for the tiny tanks from the big box store. :rockin:

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How much does it run to fill the tanks? And what size are they? I was only brewing about once a week when I was in Texas, but I had one of the bottles from the box store last for years.

I just put 1 oz of oxyclean into the wort before I pitch the yeast. That creates oxygen when I dissolves. Works like a charm and is cheap.

Special Hops said:

I just put 1 oz of oxyclean into the wort before I pitch the yeast. That creates oxygen when I dissolves. Works like a charm and is cheap.

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Wow, really?? Simple and cheap, but safe? Does it affect the taste? Cool

Special Hops said:

I just put 1 oz of oxyclean into the wort before I pitch the yeast. That creates oxygen when I dissolves. Works like a charm and is cheap.

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?!?! Harmful if swallowed... anyone else?

Special Hops said:

I just put 1 oz of oxyclean into the wort before I pitch the yeast. That creates oxygen when I dissolves. Works like a charm and is cheap.

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I hope you're joking...

suprchunk said:

How much does it run to fill the tanks? And what size are they? I was only brewing about once a week when I was in Texas, but I had one of the bottles from the box store last for years.

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I really don't know how much it will cost to fill the tanks. Even if I can't get them filled, I'm still saving a ton compared to the tiny tanks from HD or Lowe's. I think a guy in my club got one filled recently; I'll see if I can get in touch with him to find out what kind of place he went to get his filled and how much it cost him.

Tell me more about this oxyclean.... I hope to God/Blue Hindu Floaty Thing/whatever that that is a joke.

I think an aeration kit or oxygenation kit will do essentially the same job. These systems work by constantly breaking the surface tension on the wort allowing for more oxygen to be absorbed. Oxygen isn't absorbed at the diffusion stone at the bottom of the wort.

The advantages are that one is using pure oxygen and the other is using filtered air (with plenty of oxygen in it). Whipping and shaking will break the surface tension just fine, but you're introducing unfiltered air into your wort.

The cheapest way will be a cheap little air pump with an inline filter.

Special Hops said:

I just put 1 oz of oxyclean into the wort before I pitch the yeast. That creates oxygen when I dissolves. Works like a charm and is cheap.

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Well it's not April fools yet but I was indeed just joking.

Special Hops said:

Well it's not April fools yet but I was indeed just joking.

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I am glad you were joking; soda ash would not be a good addition to beer.

This is the cheapest kit that I found when I was looking for my O2 kit.
Included regulator and stone; use the $10 Bernzomatic bottles.
I did 10 batches with one bottle and then left the regulator attached and cracked open; no more gas obviously so it could have lasted much longer.
I usually oxygenate it for 1 minute or until the foam spills over the carboy.

http://www.homebrewstuff.com/oxygen-regulator-kit.html
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...=10053&langId=-1&keyword=oxygen&storeId=10051

Note: Home brew stuff has an ebay and amazon store as well; sometimes his prices are cheaper in one of those than off of his main site.

i second the williamsbrewing wand. The o2 can from a hardware store is about 10 bucks. I've definately noticed a difference since using this and it is pretty simple to use prior to pitching the yeast.

maxam said:

I think an aeration kit or oxygenation kit will do essentially the same job. These systems work by constantly breaking the surface tension on the wort allowing for more oxygen to be absorbed. Oxygen isn't absorbed at the diffusion stone at the bottom of the wort.

The advantages are that one is using pure oxygen and the other is using filtered air (with plenty of oxygen in it). Whipping and shaking will break the surface tension just fine, but you're introducing unfiltered air into your wort.

The cheapest way will be a cheap little air pump with an inline filter.

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Pure O2 results in a higher O2 concentration in the wort. An air pump can't achieve the same levels, it maxes out at the same concentration as excessive shaking does.

You want the cheapest or most cost effective way?

2.1oz Oxygen at homedepot is 9.97

The regualtor and wand at Morebeer is $54

The stone its self is 12 and a filter 4.50.

I found with a 2.1oz O2 bottle I was able to use it for 5 batches.

I'm wishing I went this route,
http://www.harborfreight.com/oxygen-regulator-94846.html $34
http://www.harborfreight.com/20-cubic-ft-oxygen-cylinder-92810.html $99

fill that 20Lb tank up once (how much that is I don't know yet), and have O2 till the cows come home (or +760 Batches). One big advantage with the regulator approche too, is you can get a much more controlled bubbling, with the More beer or williams one, it basically on or off.

In the long run It probably a lot cheaper, but about $170 up front cost.

Man I wonder if my O2 stone is really plugged or something because I get a crap load of batches from my disposable O2 cylinders. My last tank I had a couple of years IIRC.

I got a stone from MoreBeer and O2 tank from a local welding supply - also got a medical regulator off eBay for around $30 - all said and done it cost me around $135.

Works great and will last me forever! If I ever do need a refill, it will cost around $15 for an exchange at the local welding shop.



Cheapest short term? Nope.

Cheapest over the long haul? I'd say so.

Feel free to send me a PM and I'll get you exact details on my tank info and reg.

twd000 said:

I've started to make some bigger beers, and even with a starter of liquid yeast, I think my results would be better with aeration?

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(a) you need to aerate with liquid moreso than with dry.

(b) you should always make a starter for liquid, even if you are not making a "big" beer

(c) yes, your results will be better with aeration.

is this the sort of tank that I could refill or swap at Airgas?

http://tucson.craigslist.org/for/2873849630.html

Is there a single type of regulator that will fit both a disposable gas cylinder, and a medical tank, in case I upgrade later?

The regulator on that medical tank is going to be different from a welding tank, which appears to be different from the small disposable tanks.

Some places will give you problems filling a medical o2 tank without a prescription.

mredge73 said:

...soda ash...

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Sodium carbonate(soda ash) is a food additive (E500) used as an acidity regulator, anti-caking agent, raising agent, and stabilizer. It is one of the components of kansui, a solution of alkaline salts used to give ramen noodles their characteristic flavor and texture. It is also used in the production of snus (Swedish-style snuff) to stabilize the pH of the final product. In Sweden, snus is regulated as a food product because it is put into the mouth, requires pasteurization, and contains only ingredients that are approved as food additives

$50 for these "kits" seems like a lot of cash for a cheap-ass regulator and some tubing . Is there anyone that sells just the disposable regulator? It can't be more than a $10 part, since it basically just does ON/OFF, right?

twd000 said:

$50 for these "kits" seems like a lot of cash for a cheap-ass regulator and some tubing . Is there anyone that sells just the disposable regulator? It can't be more than a $10 part, since it basically just does ON/OFF, right?

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Yes, Williams Brewing sells just the reg. You're close - it's $15. Note that you do have some control over the flow, though it isn't exactly precision.

That said I'm very happy I bought the wand. I used to use an aquarium pump thru a hose just to the diffusion stone, and I had a bear of a time trying to get it to stay sunk. The wand makes it a breeze.

ResumeMan said:

Yes, Williams Brewing sells just the reg. You're close - it's $15. Note that you do have some control over the flow, though it isn't exactly precision.

That said I'm very happy I bought the wand. I used to use an aquarium pump thru a hose just to the diffusion stone, and I had a bear of a time trying to get it to stay sunk. The wand makes it a breeze.

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Yes! that's what I was looking for.

I can just attach some tubing to a sanitized spoon to sink it in the carboy and get my oxygen into solution that way...

twd000 said:

I can just attach some tubing to a sanitized spoon to sink it in the carboy and get my oxygen into solution that way...

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I was just wondering this myself!

About $0.50 per batch.

$10 cylinder from the hardware store + 2 feet of vinyl tubing.

30 second addition into the wort which would surely fill the headspace. Cap the carboy, shake vigorously then attach the airlock.

I would be very surprised if any other method would offer improved results.

from the wyeastlabs customer service faq:

31. How do you achieve higher than 8 ppm O2 levels in your wort? .

By injecting pure oxygen into your wort through a stone (1 min for 12 ppm). Or, by flowing pure oxygen into the carboy's head space and shaking for 20 seconds, twice.

I use the little red bottles from the box store works fine until you run out! Carry a spare I say.

jtejedor said:

Man I wonder if my O2 stone is really plugged or something because I get a crap load of batches from my disposable O2 cylinders. My last tank I had a couple of years IIRC.

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It's not plugged, you're just using it correctly.

The tank I'm currently using is 1.4 oz. and it's over two years old. I brew 10 gallon every two weeks.

maxam said:

I think an aeration kit or oxygenation kit will do essentially the same job. These systems work by constantly breaking the surface tension on the wort allowing for more oxygen to be absorbed. Oxygen isn't absorbed at the diffusion stone at the bottom of the wort.

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This isn't true. If the flow is set correctly, you can see the oxygen bubbles dissolving into the wort before they reach the surface.

Any chance my CO2 regulator on my kegging system would work with oxygen in welding tank? I could just swap it over to aerate wort, then swap it back to the CO2 tank.

twd000 said:

Any chance my CO2 regulator on my kegging system would work with oxygen in welding tank? I could just swap it over to aerate wort, then swap it back to the CO2 tank.

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Nope. The threads go in opposite directions.

I initially got a mini welding kit from home depot (same O2 valve as williams) and wasn't thrilled with the quality or the idea of tiny $10 throw away tanks. One time dropping that fragile regulator on my tile floor dented the edge rendering it useless, so I went this route:

Bsquared said:

I'm wishing I went this route,
http://www.harborfreight.com/oxygen-regulator-94846.html $34
http://www.harborfreight.com/20-cubic-ft-oxygen-cylinder-92810.html $99

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Harbor Freight always has 20% off coupons which brings the total price of the hardware down to less than $110. If you are really patient, the tank will also go on sale for $79.99 saving even more.

Cheers!

Adam

Found this too 20LB O2 tank 77.00 free shipping.

bja said:

It's not plugged, you're just using it correctly.

The tank I'm currently using is 1.4 oz. and it's over two years old. I brew 10 gallon every two weeks.

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How exactly are you using it? What method do you use to aerate, and for how long in 10 gallons?

osagedr said:

How exactly are you using it? What method do you use to aerate, and for how long in 10 gallons?

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I adjust the output so that the bubbles just barely reach the surface with the stone at the very bottom of the fermenter. 1 to 1-1/2 minutes in each 5 gal.

So for the people who actually use the disposable tanks for their intended purpose (welding) how do they regulate the gas flow? Is there a left-hand-threaded nozzle like on a propane torch? Could I adapt that to add some tubing?