IPA like AleSmith IPA or West Coast IPA

Hi evrebody.
First of all a story. When i tried to make my first beer, i wanted something like AleSmith IPA or Greenlight West Coast IPA. This was the first attempt to brew beer at home. For this i took Coopers IPA, on the advice of the seller (stupid donkey) Coopers Amber Malt Extract, 500 gr Dextrose, 12gr Morgan Cascade Hops. Made a hop tea for 10 minutes in 1 gallon of water (later i realise it `s too little for 20 liters of beer). So the result was far far away from what i wanted to get. So i thought it `s becouse of amber extract first of all.
So maybe i don `t understand a lot, but here` s what i want to try.Take 1 kg of unhopped light malt extract, than boil some real hop tea, with two or three hops sorts. Boil for 60 minutes, adding diffirent hops in diffirent time. But i don `t really know which hops, exept cascade, is good for IPA. In my LHBS there are Saaz, Gold, Fuggles, Goldings, Magnum, Challenger, Target, Tettnanger.
So the question is: am i right, suggesting i `ll get what i want, using unhopped malt extract and adding a good hop tea in it? And which hops I have to used, in what order and so?
Not sure that described all logical, but I hope you understand.

Anyone?

Not sure what you mean by 'hop tea', so sorry if this seems obvious: Specialty grains are steeped in a 'tea' before adding extract and bringing things to a boil. Hops need to be boiled for bittering and flavour, and can be added after the boil finishes for aroma .

I would recommend reading these pages for good clear instructions on how to extract brew:

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/index.html

As to hop choices for West Coast IPA, I like to use Centennial or Chinook for bittering hops, Cascade for flavour, and Simcoe or Amarillo for aroma. Saying that, sticking to one or two varieties helps to give an idea of the characteristics of each.

You can get useful information about different hop uses and characteristics here:

http://www.freshops.com/hops/variety_descriptions

I would also recommend finding a good tried-and-true recipe to follow rather than winging it. The recipes link here at Homebrewtalk has some very tasty looking extract IPA recipes, often with helpful comments.

Hope all this helps, good luck and happy brewing!

If your boiling hops separately from your malt extract then you shouldn't be doing that. While this is a ok method you should boil the hops and the extract together.

So you are manking 5 gallon (20 liter) batches correct? Are you doing full boils or are you only boiling a couple gallons and then topping off with a lot of water?

If you want to make a west coast ipa those hops won't work like Sutepan says. You are going to need American varieties and mostly the "C's".

Those beers are pretty hoppy so you are probably going to want to get up in the 8ish oz range for 5 gallons.

You are also going to want to back load your hop additions, aka do a majority of the additions in the last 15min on the boil. You should also dry hop with 2 to 4 ounces to really get that hop aroma.

Hopper5000 said:

If you want to make a west coast ipa those hops won't work like Sutepan says. You are going to need American varieties and mostly the "C's".

Those beers are pretty hoppy so you are probably going to want to get up in the 8ish oz range for 5 gallons.

You are also going to want to back load your hop additions, aka do a majority of the additions in the last 15min on the boil. You should also dry hop with 2 to 4 ounces to really get that hop aroma.

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I will defer judgement about hop varieties in a WC IPA to someone who lives on that coast haha ( I live on the Best coast, not the West coast )! That being said, I've made some hop monsters with the ones I mention. Late additions are definitely a must for WC IPA; after flame-out and dry hop for sure

I would just try looking up some clone recipe's to get some ideas and/or to copy. The thing that those hops you mentioned would be lacking is the citrusy and floral aspects that those IPAs are known for.

Guys thanks for answers. So i`ll say that in my first attempt to brew kind of IPA the only thing that i`ve boil was 0.5 oz of Cascade for 10 minutes, and this is what Craig (on CraigTube) call hop-tea. I took Coopers IPA extract, Coopers Amber Malt Extract, pour it into fermentator an than add my hop tea.
So from your comment and my searching i found out 2 things perfectly))
1) Unhopped malt extract and hops must be boiled together (is it OK for extract to be boiled fo 60 or 90 minutes?)
2) West coast ipa needs partial mash, i`ve already found on this forum clone recipe, and now is the biggest problem for me, is to find proper hops and grains for it, because in my LHBS the best that i have is Cascade hops and Vienna grains. Need Crystal malt and hops: Colombus, Centennial, Simcoe, Amarillo))) Thanks again. I was thinking than EXTRACT BREWING bordered by only making beer from beer kits))))

1. Yes, it's ok. But it'd be preferable to add about 1/2 the extract at the end, to keep it from tasting like "cooked extract" and to keep the color lighter.

2. Not necessarily. You can make any beer with a few specialty grains, and malt extract, and hops.

I've never had any good experiences with the Cooper's kits, and I have nothing positive to say about their products, including the yeast, but I know a few people on the forum have "tweaked" their kits to get an ok product.

I'd start with a quality malt extract (Munton's and Briess both make dry extract) in the lightest color you can buy, and some crystal malt grains (normally 40L). A good quality dry yeast (Safale makes a good one called S05), and some hops, and you're all set.

You're using the wrong ingredients. Amber DME and European hops won't give you a West Coast IPA. No reason to make hop tea either.

You want to use Extra Light DME (1/3 added at boil start / 2/3 added at flameout). For extract IPAs, you need a little more simple sugar to ensure that signature West Coast dryness, so adding 10-13% dextrose added at flameout is a good practice.

Pitching enough healthy, clean American ale yeast like US-05, WLP001, WLP090, or Wyeast 1056 will also help you to achieve your goals for making a tasty WCIPA. Before pitching your yeast, make sure that the wort is highly oxygenated and in the low to mid 60's (F). After you set the airlock, you want to keep the wort away from light and oxygen and maintain temps. of the mid to late 60s.

West Coast hops include: Amarillo, Simcoe, Citra, Centennial, Nugget, Columbus, Cascade, Chinook, etc. - Follow a simple 60/10/0/DH schedule. After 2-3 weeks in the primary, add your dryhops, and then bottle a week later.

Thanks everyone, i will try to find proper ingredients to make something like wcipa.

Not starting another thread i`ll ask here.
It looks like i`ve found what i need. It`s BrewCraft USA Dry Hopped West Coast IPA Kit.
It contains:
1 Pack (1 oz.) Cascade hops.
1 Pack (1 oz.) Chinook hops.
1 Pack (1 oz.) Columbus hops.
2 Packs (1 oz. each) Nugget hops.
1 Pack priming sugar.
1 Pack brewing grain.
50 Bottle caps.
1 Pack (11.5 g) dry ale yeast.
4 Hops steeping bags.
1 Grain steeping bag.
1 Pack (1 lb.) brewers crystals.
2 Packs (3 lbs. each) dry malt.
1 Instruction sheet

Has anyone some experience with this kit?

Just design your own recipe after researching. We can help you. It's cheaper and the results will be better.

I live in Australia but this Partial Mash recipe won the AIPA section of the Australian Amateur Brewing Competition in 2012. It beat 21 entries which had each placed 1st, 2nd or 3rd in their respective state comps. Its based loosely on the AleSmith hop profile and is chock full of West Coast style hops.

Stew's Brews West Coast IPA - Partial Mash

1.8kg LDME
400g Dextrose
1.5kg Liquid Wheat Malt
200g Victory Malt
100g Crystal, light
100g Crystal, dark
200g Munich
1kg Pale Malt
15g Centennial and Magnum, 60min
8g each Simcoe, Centennial, Cascade, Amarillo, Galaxy, Citra, NS 30min
4g each Simcoe, Centennial, Cascade, Amarillo, Galaxy, Citra, NS 10min
3g each Simcoe, Centennial, Cascade, Amarillo, Galaxy, Citra, NS at Flameout
7g each Simcoe, Centennial, Cascade, Amarillo, Galaxy, Citra, NS during crash chill
1.5 tsp Gypsum
2 tsp Yeast Nutrient
1/3 Whirfoc
2 pkt US-05 at 18degC

Comments - Mash grains at 65degC for 60min. Total boil volume 7L. Extract added directly to fermenter and made upto 21L. Ferment at 18degC for 14days, raise temp for 3 days to 20degC, crash chill to 2degC and dry hop for 10days at 2degC before bottling. SG 1.064, FG 1.016, Est ABV 6.9%.

bobbrews said:

You're using the wrong ingredients. Amber DME and European hops won't give you a West Coast IPA. No reason to make hop tea either.

You want to use Extra Light DME (1/3 added at boil start / 2/3 added at flameout). For extract IPAs, you need a little more simple sugar to ensure that signature West Coast dryness, so adding 10-13% dextrose added at flameout is a good practice.

Pitching enough healthy, clean American ale yeast like US-05, WLP001, WLP090, or Wyeast 1056 will also help you to achieve your goals for making a tasty WCIPA. Before pitching your yeast, make sure that the wort is highly oxygenated and in the low to mid 60's (F). After you set the airlock, you want to keep the wort away from light and oxygen and maintain temps. of the mid to late 60s.

West Coast hops include: Amarillo, Simcoe, Citra, Centennial, Nugget, Columbus, Cascade, Chinook, etc. - Follow a simple 60/10/0/DH schedule. After 2-3 weeks in the primary, add your dryhops, and then bottle a week later.

Click to expand...

Hi- sorry to sound stupid but I'm very new to this. I have all those ingrdients and some crystal malt grains. Do I do this-
1: Boil 5 galloms and add 1/3 of roughly 7lbs of the lme when the boil starts and the rest when the heat is cut off.
2: I have nugget, cascade and centenial- I understand that 60/10/0 are minutes and that DH is dry hopping but how do I know which hops to add when and how much of each one?
3: I understand the yeast bit.
4: After 2-3 weeks in primary can I add the dry hops straight before bottling and then condition this way or do I need to put into a secondary?

Thanks Kal

kal1701 said:

Hi- sorry to sound stupid but I'm very new to this. I have all those ingrdients and some crystal malt grains. Do I do this-
1: Boil 5 galloms and add 1/3 of roughly 7lbs of the lme when the boil starts and the rest when the heat is cut off.
2: I have nugget, cascade and centenial- I understand that 60/10/0 are minutes and that DH is dry hopping but how do I know which hops to add when and how much of each one?
3: I understand the yeast bit.
4: After 2-3 weeks in primary can I add the dry hops straight before bottling and then condition this way or do I need to put into a secondary?

Thanks Kal

Click to expand...

If you post up the exact recipe you have (and how much of each ingredient) we can help you. It's hard to guess how many ounces of hops you have, and how many pounds of grain you have.

Yooper said:

If you post up the exact recipe you have (and how much of each ingredient) we can help you. It's hard to guess how many ounces of hops you have, and how many pounds of grain you have.

Click to expand...

That's it though- I don't have a recipe! I've been looking for an American IPA extract recipe with step by step instructions. I loked at the last quote I quoted and thought- I've got all that stuff!

I have light liquid malt extract 3kg or so
centennial, cascade and nugget hops- a big vacuum pack of each
west coast ale yeast x2 packs
Crystal malt grain about 1kg

Thanks again

kal1701 said:

That's it though- I don't have a recipe! I've been looking for an American IPA extract recipe with step by step instructions. I loked at the last quote I quoted and thought- I've got all that stuff!

I have light liquid malt extract 3kg or so
centennial, cascade and nugget hops- a big vacuum pack of each
west coast ale yeast x2 packs
Crystal malt grain about 1kg

Thanks again

Click to expand...

Ok, then! I'm metric- challenged, but I'll do my best!

.75 pound crystal malt, crushed (340 grams)
Put two to three gallons of water in your pot, and bring to 65-71C. Steep the grain in grain bag at 150-160 degrees (65-71C) for 20 minutes. Remove and discard grains. Bring to a boil.
Turn off the heat and add:
3.3 pounds LME (1.5 KG)
Bring to a boil.

Set your timer for 60 minutes, and add hops as follows:
(the time shown is how much time is left in the boil when you add the hops):
.5 oz nugget 60 minutes (14 g)
1.00 oz Centennial Boil 15.0 min (30 g)
1.00 oz Cascade Boil 5.0 min (30g)
1.00 oz Cascade Boil 1.0 min
1.00 oz Centennial Boil 1.0 min

Turn off the heat and add:
2 KG LME

Stir well, let sit for 5 minutes, and then chill the wort. Once below 70 degrees (21C), add to fermenter and top up with cool water to 5 gallons (19L) and mix well. Add yeast.

Yooper said:

Ok, then! I'm metric- challenged, but I'll do my best!

.75 pound crystal malt, crushed (340 grams)
Put two to three gallons of water in your pot, and bring to 65-71C. Steep the grain in grain bag at 150-160 degrees (65-71C) for 20 minutes. Remove and discard grains. Bring to a boil.
Turn off the heat and add:
3.3 pounds LME (1.5 KG)
Bring to a boil.

Set your timer for 60 minutes, and add hops as follows:
(the time shown is how much time is left in the boil when you add the hops):
.5 oz nugget 60 minutes (14 g)
1.00 oz Centennial Boil 15.0 min (30 g)
1.00 oz Cascade Boil 5.0 min (30g)
1.00 oz Cascade Boil 1.0 min
1.00 oz Centennial Boil 1.0 min

Turn off the heat and add:
2 KG LME

Stir well, let sit for 5 minutes, and then chill the wort. Once below 70 degrees (21C), add to fermenter and top up with cool water to 5 gallons (19L) and mix well. Add yeast.

Click to expand...

Wow thanks
When you say crush grains should I just do that in pestle and mortar

Also after fermentation can I dry hop with some cascade into my bucket and then go straight to bottling in a few weeks

Thanks again I can't wait to do it on Friday

Kal

kal1701 said:

Wow thanks
When you say crush grains should I just do that in pestle and mortar

Also after fermentation can I dry hop with some cascade into my bucket and then go straight to bottling in a few weeks

Thanks again I can't wait to do it on Friday

Kal

Click to expand...

You can use a rolling pin and put them in a ziploc bag and roll them until they are all pretty crushed but not pulverized.

And yes, you can dryhop about 5-7 days before bottling. That works great for fresh hops flavor and aroma.

Yooper said:

You can use a rolling pin and put them in a ziploc bag and roll them until they are all pretty crushed but not pulverized.

And yes, you can dryhop about 5-7 days before bottling. That works great for fresh hops flavor and aroma.

Click to expand...

Thanks for all your advice this week
Well I've done it and took a reading with the hydrometer and it is about 1.036

Does that sound okay

What final gravity am I aiming for and is this a 2 week or 3 week in the fermenter job

I was aiming to add the cascade to the fermenter in two weeks and bottle a week after that

Is there a specific sugar I should use for priming

Thanks again again
Kal

kal1701 said:

Thanks for all your advice this week
Well I've done it and took a reading with the hydrometer and it is about 1.036

Does that sound okay

What final gravity am I aiming for and is this a 2 week or 3 week in the fermenter job

I was aiming to add the cascade to the fermenter in two weeks and bottle a week after that

Is there a specific sugar I should use for priming

Thanks again again
Kal

Click to expand...

1.036 is very low for 5.5 kg of LME. Maybe it wasn't mixed up well?

I think your time line is perfect. I'd use 4-5 ounces (by weight) of corn sugar for a 5 gallon batch for priming.

yeah 1036 does sound a bit low.... did you happen to top off the fermenter with water and not mix it up?

Yooper said:

1.036 is very low for 5.5 kg of LME. Maybe it wasn't mixed up well?

I think your time line is perfect. I'd use 4-5 ounces (by weight) of corn sugar for a 5 gallon batch for priming.

Click to expand...

I only used 3kg of lme

Is that bad you told me to use 3.5kg in the recipe but I only had 3kg

I topped it up to 5 gallons

What will this mean for final beer taste abv etc

Hopper5000 said:

yeah 1036 does sound a bit low.... did you happen to top off the fermenter with water and not mix it up?

Click to expand...

I did top it up but no I don't think I did mix it up before I took the reading

I did put the lid on and shake it about before I pitched the yeast though

well it did get mixed up eventually but your OG probably isn't 1036 which is a good thing because that would probably produce about a 3% beer. I have made the mistake of not shaking before taking a reading which is why I asked. You can go off of the theoritical OG in your recipe for this brew to try and guess how much alcohol is in it. Just make sure to take a sample after you mixed everything up next time...

kal1701 said:

I only used 3kg of lme

Is that bad you told me to use 3.5kg in the recipe but I only had 3kg

I topped it up to 5 gallons

What will this mean for final beer taste abv etc

Click to expand...

I typed out 5.5 kg LME. That will make quite a big difference in the maltiness of the beer, and as well as the alcohol %. Using about 2.5 KG less is a huge difference- about half what I would have expected and wanted to use.

Yooper said:

I typed out 5.5 kg LME. That will make quite a big difference in the maltiness of the beer, and as well as the alcohol %. Using about 2.5 KG less is a huge difference- about half what I would have expected and wanted to use.

Click to expand...

I can't find that I'm really sorry

On the post I read it said 1.5kg at first and then 2kg at the end

I've gone back and checked it a few times now

Yooper said:

Ok, then! I'm metric- challenged, but I'll do my best!

.75 pound crystal malt, crushed (340 grams)
Put two to three gallons of water in your pot, and bring to 65-71C. Steep the grain in grain bag at 150-160 degrees (65-71C) for 20 minutes. Remove and discard grains. Bring to a boil.
Turn off the heat and add:
3.3 pounds LME (1.5 KG)
Bring to a boil.

Set your timer for 60 minutes, and add hops as follows:
(the time shown is how much time is left in the boil when you add the hops):
.5 oz nugget 60 minutes (14 g)
1.00 oz Centennial Boil 15.0 min (30 g)
1.00 oz Cascade Boil 5.0 min (30g)
1.00 oz Cascade Boil 1.0 min
1.00 oz Centennial Boil 1.0 min

Turn off the heat and add:
2 KG LME

Stir well, let sit for 5 minutes, and then chill the wort. Once below 70 degrees (21C), add to fermenter and top up with cool water to 5 gallons (19L) and mix well. Add yeast.

Click to expand...

This is what I followed it says 1.5 then bring to boil and 2kg at end

kal1701 said:

This is what I followed it says 1.5 then bring to boil and 2kg at end

Click to expand...

You're right! I misread my own recipe. sorry about that!

With your 3 KG, you should have an OG of 1.047 just from the LME. The grains will give you a bit more for a total of about 1051 vs the 1.059 from using 3.5 kg. A little less alcohol and maltiness. Not too bad.

Sorry for my mistake- I was talking about POUNDS and forget we were going metric here. 3 pounds of extract is about half of what you need (but, a kg is 2.2 pounds, der!)

Yooper said:

You're right! I misread my own recipe. sorry about that!

With your 3 KG, you should have an OG of 1.047 just from the LME. The grains will give you a bit more for a total of about 1051 vs the 1.059 from using 3.5 kg. A little less alcohol and maltiness. Not too bad.

Sorry for my mistake- I was talking about POUNDS and forget we were going metric here. 3 pounds of extract is about half of what you need (but, a kg is 2.2 pounds, der!)

Click to expand...

You don't need to apologise for anything I can't believe the help you are giving me

It's 24 hours since I pitched and there is no signs of fermentation yet I pitched at the correct temp

kal1701 said:

You don't need to apologise for anything I can't believe the help you are giving me

It's 24 hours since I pitched and there is no signs of fermentation yet I pitched at the correct temp

Click to expand...

Which yeast strain? Some are slower than others to get going.

Yooper said:

Which yeast strain? Some are slower than others to get going.

Click to expand...

It's started

Yooper said:

1.036 is very low for 5.5 kg of LME. Maybe it wasn't mixed up well?

I think your time line is perfect. I'd use 4-5 ounces (by weight) of corn sugar for a 5 gallon batch for priming.

Click to expand...

Hi I'm back
Well I'm going to dry hop this weekend
Do I need a certain amount of cascade or just a handful
Am I right in believing that you just put the hops in the same type of bag I steeped the grains in and put them in
Is there no risk of contamination

Final question for now

When I pitch the sugar do I mix it with boiling water first and if so how much

Thanks

Hope you've enjoyed your two weeks away from me

Kal

kal1701 said:

Hi I'm back
Well I'm going to dry hop this weekend
Do I need a certain amount of cascade or just a handful
Am I right in believing that you just put the hops in the same type of bag I steeped the grains in and put them in
Is there no risk of contamination

Final question for now

When I pitch the sugar do I mix it with boiling water first and if so how much

Thanks

Hope you've enjoyed your two weeks away from me

Kal

Click to expand...

I measure my hops additions with a scale. An ounce is pretty good for most beers, but I've used more when I wanted more. I don't use hops bags, but if you do you can sanitize them first and put the hops in them loosely (don't pack them in!) and add that to your beer.

When you prime the beer, it's easiest to bring 2 cups of water to a boil, and add the sugar. Boil that a few minutes, then turn off the heat and add it to your sanitized bottling bucket. Then rack the beer into that. Put the tubing on the bottom of the bottling bucket, in a circle on the bottom, so that the beer fills from the bottom and mixes up and swirls as it fills. That will mix it up well, without risking aerating/oxidizing it.

Yooper said:

I measure my hops additions with a scale. An ounce is pretty good for most beers, but I've used more when I wanted more. I don't use hops bags, but if you do you can sanitize them first and put the hops in them loosely (don't pack them in!) and add that to your beer.

When you prime the beer, it's easiest to bring 2 cups of water to a boil, and add the sugar. Boil that a few minutes, then turn off the heat and add it to your sanitized bottling bucket. Then rack the beer into that. Put the tubing on the bottom of the bottling bucket, in a circle on the bottom, so that the beer fills from the bottom and mixes up and swirls as it fills. That will mix it up well, without risking aerating/oxidizing it.

Click to expand...

Hi again

So im bottling Sunday
Can I pour from primary into bottling bucket and sieve out the dry hops

What type of sugar should I use and how much with water

Thanks again

It's easiest to use a siphon which would help reduce your oxidation of the beer and would allow you to pull the beer from under the dry hops and stop when you get close to sucking them up.

Most people use corn sugar for priming in about a cup or two of water. Is this a smaller batch? If so you can use less.

Hopper5000 said:

It's easiest to use a siphon which would help reduce your oxidation of the beer and would allow you to pull the beer from under the dry hops and stop when you get close to sucking them up.

Most people use corn sugar for priming in about a cup or two of water. Is this a smaller batch? If so you can use less.

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No it's 5 gallon so how much sugar should I use with the water
I've got an auto syphoning so ill use that
Thanks

Ok, so I would use a cup and a half of water. There are various calculators out there that will tell you how much sugar you need to get to a certain volume of CO2 in the bottles. You can go here: http://www.brewersfriend.com/stats/

You will have to figure out how many volumes of C02 you want in this beer but for an American IPA it should be about 2.0-2.2ish

Hopper5000 said:

Ok, so I would use a cup and a half of water. There are various calculators out there that will tell you how much sugar you need to get to a certain volume of CO2 in the bottles. You can go here: http://www.brewersfriend.com/stats/

You will have to figure out how many volumes of C02 you want in this beer but for an American IPA it should be about 2.0-2.2ish

Click to expand...

Well I bottled today and had a gulp of it
It tasted like a flat goose island ipa
Considering my first batch two months ago tasted like sour vinegar at this point I'm over he moon
Thank you so much

The final gravity was 1.010 so I've worked out an abv of roughly 4.6%

In order to get a higher abv next time do I just up the amount of lme

Thanks for everything this summer

kal1701 said:

Well I bottled today and had a gulp of it
It tasted like a flat goose island ipa
Considering my first batch two months ago tasted like sour vinegar at this point I'm over he moon
Thank you so much

The final gravity was 1.010 so I've worked out an abv of roughly 4.6%

In order to get a higher abv next time do I just up the amount of lme

Thanks for everything this summer

Click to expand...

If you want a higher ABV, you can increase the extract- but you'll want to increase the bittering hops as well because it's the hops that counterbalance the sweet malt.

Using a free brewing calculator can help you with that, and you can play with it to see how various hops look and how the amount of malt changes the OG.