Belgian Golden Strong Ale Pink Elephant (Delirium Tremens clone)

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So how has everyone accomplished the mash schedule as shown in the OP? Did you just say screw it and mash at one temp?

Would decoction work?
 
So how has everyone accomplished the mash schedule as shown in the OP? Did you just say screw it and mash at one temp?

Would decoction work?

I mashed at 158. One temp for 90 minutes. Worked great. One of my best brews yet.
 
So I had an actual DT last night, my second one ever since the bars I've been to charge $10 a bottle. The first one I had a few months ago was so so. Last night it was amazing. I just wanted to comment that my clone attempt tastes nothing like DT. I think my fermentation temps got too hot and it left a weird after taste. It's also too malty presumably from the S-04. I'm going to attempt this again but I'll use S-05 and step up the belgian yeast dramatically. Maybe even add the dry yeast a day or two after pitching the starter. Need to figure it out yet. $0.02

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The originial mash schedule works, I used Beersmith and it gave me some BS error message that I couldn't achieve this temp with this volume but it tries to calculate your volumes for you...so I decreased the initial volumes for a thicker mash...came out fantastic. Bmason, my second batch definitely has a weird aftertaste, I had higher ferment temps the second time, and I believe the weird tastes I perceive are Fusel alchohols and some byproducts of the spices like seeds of paradise that occur at higher temps, I can't substantiate it but I get a solvent flavor mixed with like a chili burn flavor. But my first clone was a dead on ringer for DT if not a little cleaner. I used the S-04 with WL - Belgian(number forgotten)...and I used the adjusted grain bill with munich, aromatic, special B, and pils with light belgian candi sugar and ginger, seeds of paradise, corriander seed with a styrian golding then saaz as hops, ferment 2 weeks at 70, lager 2-3 weeks minimum, hot bottle condition with a whole cup of corn sugar 3 weeks at 80 degrees in champagne bottles only. I think that the S-04 lags compared to the white labs yeast so it's more a finishing yeast and the initial flavors are from the WL. I can send you my exact beersmith recipe as I have and indicate where adjustments were made....I plan to rebrew this very soon in time for the holidays but am waiting for temps to drop to 70 max, it proved less forgiving than an IPA in terms of ferment temps.
 
If you could post your Beersmith recipe, your first attempt sounds like a good clone of DT.
 
Here you go....sorry but I don't have an extract. This is for 5 gallon, all grain. Primary at aorund 68-70.....until it was done, racked to a secondary 5 gallon glass carboy and lagered in fridge, 35-40 degrees for 2-3 weeks, and then hot bottle condition at 80 degrees for 3 weeks...then let most bottles age another month or so. Will be brewing a 3rd batch as soon as primary temps dont threaten to go over 70. Ignore the boil volume, its a 90 minute so it has to be higher like almost 7 gallons. Also the volumes of water and temps...I just did a rest, two temp mash, and then batch sparged once with a small volume of water to get up to seven gallons...I also slightly dropped the volumes for steps 1-3 but kept the same ratios, got plenty of sugar out and I have a low effic. system. Let me know if it works out...by the way, splurge for the candy sugar, if you're gonna spend all that time and effort is it worth using corn sugar to save five bucks just cause Chimay supposedly does now to cut costs?


Belgian Strong Ale
Brew Type: All Grain Date: 3/8/2011
Style: Belgian Golden Strong Ale Brewer: Eric O'Connor
Batch Size: 5.00 gal Assistant Brewer:
Boil Volume: 6.02 gal Boil Time: 90 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %

Brewing Steps Check Time Step
3/8/2011 Clean and prepare equipment.
-- Measure ingredients, crush grains.
-- Prepare 7.55 gal water for brewing
-- Prepare Ingredients for Mash
Amount Item Type
11.70 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain
0.44 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain
0.31 lb Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain
0.31 lb Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM) Grain

-- WARNING: Estimated mash size: 9.29 gal greater than mash tun volume of 5.00 gal
2 min Mash Ingredients
Mash in: Add 12.77 qt of water at 134.7 F
10 min - Hold mash at 125.0 F for 10 min
2 min Step2: Add 5.11 qt of water at 200.1 F
45 min - Hold mash at 144.0 F for 45 min
2 min Step3: Add 7.66 qt of water at 194.9 F
30 min - Hold mash at 158.0 F for 30 min
2 min Mash out: Error: Infusion temperature above boiling. Add more water!
5 min - Hold mash at 170.0 F for 5 min
-- Sparge with 0.00 gal of 168.0 F water.
-- Add water to achieve boil volume of 6.02 gal
-- Estimated Pre-boil Gravity is: 1.067 SG with all grains/extracts added
Boil for 90 min Boil Ingredients
Boil Amount Item Type
90 min 1.50 lb Candi Sugar, Clear (0.5 SRM) Sugar
60 min 1.23 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] (60 min) Hops
15 min 0.82 oz Saaz [4.00 %] (15 min) Hops
12 min 0.14 oz Ginger Root (Boil 12.0 min) Misc
5 min 0.42 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
5 min 4.00 gm Seeds of Paradise (Boil 5.0 min) Misc

-- Cool wort to fermentation temperature
-- Add water (as needed) to achieve volume of 5.00 gal
-- Siphon wort to primary fermenter and aerate wort.
-- Add Ingredients to Fermenter
Amount Item Type
1 Pkgs Belgian Ale (White Labs #WLP550) Yeast-Ale
1 pkg s-04 dry english.

3/8/2011 Measure Original Gravity: ________ (Estimate: 1.080 SG)
3/8/2011 Measure Batch Volume: ________ (Estimate: 5.00 gal)
14 days Ferment in primary for 14 days at 68.0 F
3/22/2011 Transfer to Secondary Fermenter
7 days Ferment in secondary for 7 days at 38.0 F
3/29/2011 Measure Final Gravity: ________ (Estimate: 1.019 SG)
-- Bottle beer at 60.0 F with 3.8 oz of corn sugar.
3.0 Weeks Age for 3.0 Weeks at 78.0 F
4/19/2011 Sample and enjoy!
 
I just brewed my 3rd batch on friday night. This time I've left out the S-04 yeast and am trying it pure Belgian yeast. The ferments been steady 66-68 so if I don't like it as much it'll probably be because the true DT yeast is a hybrid between English and Belgian strains.

The LHBS was out of grains of paradise, so I only used freshly sliced Ginger and whole Corriander seed. I may see if they re-stock and put the paradise seeds in the lagering vessel but I wouldn't use black pepper at all. If you can't get seeds of paradise but want something spicy to kick a bit over the holidays I would add some chili peppers or maybe just the seeds from them...Habanero or Birds eyes pack a punch.
 
I'm doing a PM, does that matter? Six pounds Belgian Pils three pounds extra light DME.

Sure does matter. DMS should have been driven off during the manufacturing process of the DME. You can certainly drop the boil time to 60m.
 
Only plan on the single mash temp, still go or 90 min on that with the 6 pounds? May add another pound of DME, planned on great attenuation with cultured DT yeast but that didn't take. Going with the S-04 and Wyeast BS combo.
 
Yeah, I'd still do the 90m mash. You want a highly fermentable wort to get the desired attenuation.
 
Great thread, thanks to all. More questions though. Gonna split a 5 gallon batch between keg and bottle. Anyone think using carb tabs is a bad idea? Probably use bomber bottles. As for kegging, should I just skip the secondary since it's gonna be in a cold keg and fridge? If I brew this week will it be drinkable for Christmas and New Years?
 
I did a 70 minute boil this time...we'll see if it matters. Last Lager I did I just did a 60 and after the lagering it came out uber clean. Maybe some Pilsner malt producers make malts less prone to DMSO production?

sivdrinks, If it were me I'd still rack to a lagering vessel before kegging, but just for clarity. My two batches were a little different from each other. The first one took about 7 weeks to be totally done, and the second one needed longer in the bottle....I went for about 3.0 volumes with corn sugar and used only champagne bottles.
 
Still looking for an opinion on carb tabs. Planned on two per bomber bottle. I probably won't touch these till spring/summer since I'll be drinking out of the keg for now. Are you guys having blowouts with bottles other than champagne bottles because of the high co2 volume? If so I'm hoping the carb tabs will negate this.
 
I like the Cooper's Drops better than the Munton's Carb Tabs, though I suspect you're talking about Drops because 2 per bomber would be right - it's more like 8-10 of the Munton's Tabs per bottle.
 
Yup, using Coopers. Foresee any carbing problems after the beer lagers for two weeks? Got an Imp Stout that still aren't fully carbed after almost three months and that wasn't even cold crashed. It was around 9%.
 
I don't bottle condition anymore but when I did I used Cooper's Drops exclusively. Never had one fail to carbonate, even after a month or more of lagering.
 
I had two regular 22 oz. bottles ( I believe these are bomber bottles) blow out during the 82 degree conditioning phase. No blowouts on Champagne bottles so far. I don't think bomber bottles are coded any higher than 12 oz. bottles. Most of them are designed for beers from 1.8-2.4 volumes Co2. Russian rivers Damnation and Alesmiths Horny Devil are two excellent beers that you could guzzle and those bottles are designed for higher Co2 levels. Alemsiths Belgian bottles will take a plastic cork which is what I mainly use.

I can't comment on Carb tabs as I've never used them.
 
Thanks for the info guys. I'm gonna use the bombers with two carb tabs each of Coopers. Had no problems with an 8% pumpkin so I'm hoping for the same with this. Brewed my PM version last night and came in at 1.074, fermented with s-04 and Wyeast Belgian Golden. Fermenting this morning at around 68 deg, should be a little more violent when I get home at 5 today.
 
One final warning though, it's not about OG or ABV, it's about volumes CO2...at 3.0 I had 2/12 Bombers burst, I have no idea what two carb tabs of Coopers is though, I just did a full cup of Corn sugar to 5 gallons, which is about 3.0...I believe 3/4 cup is the standard recommendation for American Ales. If two Coopers tabs is what you would use for American Ales, your mouthfeel will not match DT, you would need an additional half tab and that's where the bombers get stressed....but either way, the bottom just collapsed out, it's not a full on bottle bomb or anything.

Mines pretty much sputtering out now and I'm about to rack to the lagering vessel for 2-3 weeks at 35 degrees, need to find some grains of paradise.
 
I hear ya about the mouthful. Only reason I'm not too worried is because they probably won't get touched till they've been sitting for about 3 months or longer. Beers I've done with carb tabs tend to be pretty spritzy the longer they go. I'd like to know myself what Coopers says their tabs equate to in volumes of c02.
 
Just to update my partial mash attempt. Started at 1.074 fermented with s04 and Wyeast Belgian Golden at around 70 deg. Two weeks later it's down to 1.011 sitting around 67 deg. Plan on letting it sit another week before cold crashing. Haven't decided how long to crash or if I will bring it back to room temp before kegging and bottling. Any thoughts?
 
I used Belgian Ale yeast only this time and it tasted pretty good going into the lagering phase. I would lager it two weeks if you can, this brew tends to be on the green side if you rush it....I usually plan on not drinking it until 2-3 months post brew day.

Started at 1.078, finished at 1.007, I'll lager 2 weeks, hot bottle condition for 3 weeks and then let sit for at least another week. I skipped the grains of P this time as last and no S04 so I'm curious to compare it to the last bottle of a previous batch.
 
I've got a batch on tap right now. Fermented cool - couldn't get it above 78 - but thankfully it finished out. Very smooth for an 8% brew...
 
Got this on the boil now!

Only changes are:

-Used Hallertau (3.1%) instead of styrian as that's what I had
-No grains of paradise, so just gone with corriander seed & ginger
-My mash went 20@130F, 45@144F, 30@158F
-Will be using cultured DT yeast (smells pretty good, if that fails I've got some washed WLP550 in backup).
-Using clear Belgian candi sugar

When do you add the sugar? I assume in the last 10mins or so? Or are people adding it after the initial fermentation is done to get more attenuation?
 
Thanks Jkarp.

Somehow I've managed an OG of 1.080 and I NEVER overshoot gravity targets (well, I think I did once, by 2 pts). I wonder if that mash schedule (never done one like that before) did it.

I looked at some lecture slides from a workshop I attended at a local university (the brewery I work for sent me) and extraction efficiency rises with temperature while fermentability of sugars decreases.

I kind of knew that, but didn't realise it was to that extent:

Mash Temp: 50degC/122F Extract Yield: 73% Fermentability: 89%
Mash Temp: 55degC/131F Extract Yield: 89% Fermentability: 93%
Mash Temp: 60degC/140F Extract Yield: 96% Fermentability: 86%
Mash Temp: 65degC/149F Extract Yield: 98% Fermentability: 80%
Mash Temp: 70degC/158F Extract Yield: 99.5% Fermentability: 66%

As a side note, we were running a batch of larger malt at the same time as the lecture on 40l system, so not sure if that only relates to that (being fairly un-modified in comparison to pale malts). I think I'm going to be playing around with different steps in my mashes more often (including possibly a hefe decoction next on the list!).
 
How much does the timing of the sugar addition affect attenuation and why? Belgian candi sugar is just invert sugar, right?

I plan to do this one again soon. my first attempt which was about 9 months ago went ok but i got some serious bubble gum esters...any clue why? Also, as it aged,it developed a metalic flavor. not sure wht that was about either.
 
Metallic is often oxidation?

The longer you boil the sugar, the more it will caramalise. I think the candi sugar is invert, probably easy to make, but easier to buy :p

Edit: Apparently if you add sugar, the yeast will go for the simple sugars first as it's 'lazy', and might not get through as much of the longer chain sugars as it would if the sugar wasn't there. So by adding sugar after the initial bulk of fermentation is done of the sugars from the malt, you get better attenuation. I'm not sure if this is scientifically proven or not.

Add sugars for a long time in the boil and it'll caramalise more so won't be fermentable (like the sugar from crystal malt).

In this case, you're probably better off doing a multi step mash, pitching a good amount of yeast, ramping temp before worrying too much about when you add the sugar.
 
For the people using cultured DT yeast:

How long does the beer take to clear? Mine is 7 days into fermentation and still hazy/cloudy as hell. Does DT yeast floc well? My only real experience of Belgian yeast is wlp550 and that drops crystal clear.

I can get finings from work if it doesn't clear. Gonna let it ride for another week in the primary; got it near a radiator now (wrapped in a towel) to keep it in the 70's as it was in the mid 60's in my ferm chamber :(
 
The real DT is nearly never clear, unless you've got a really old bottle. Fresh off the tap in Belgium, it's cloudy.
 
Well I'll be!

My water is a bit calcium deficient as well which doesn't help.

I'll give it time, then hit it with some finings. I like it clear as the real deal is an awesome colour when clear with all the carbonation in it, almost champagne.
 
I just made a 10.5 gallon batch today. I split a 2L starter during active fermentation into two 5-gal buckets. I also split a single S-04 package and pitched it dry. I cooled the wort to 64 and will let it warm up to desired temperature. My question is, what is the desired fermentation temp? I have it in my furnace room and I don't want to let it get TOO hot. I see that bmason's batch got warm and didn't taste too great.
 
sudsmcgee said:
I just made a 10.5 gallon batch today. I split a 2L starter during active fermentation into two 5-gal buckets. I also split a single S-04 package and pitched it dry. I cooled the wort to 64 and will let it warm up to desired temperature. My question is, what is the desired fermentation temp? I have it in my furnace room and I don't want to let it get TOO hot. I see that bmason's batch got warm and didn't taste too great.

I would not let it rise beyond 75F if I were you. So maybe an ambient temperature of 66-70F might be ideal. I also think that splitting the s04 was a good idea. My version came out way too malty. What other yeast did you pitch?
 
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